DC's "Co-Features"

[samurainoir]

What do we think of them thus far? Conceptually and Content-wise?

Are we actually getting "added value"?

It will be interesting to see how they will decide to collect these given the fact that already some of the co-features seem to crossover into one another, while others remain seperate entities.

[BlackKnight]

I like the Ravager Back Up Story in the Back of Teen Titans,.. So Far so Good,.. But I have Always Liked the Character,.. even More so Now...

The New Blue Beelte Story in the Back of BoosterGold Blows.
I like him on the Teen Titans Book,.. But that imo is all We Need.
After Reading Jurgens Fantastic BoosterGold Book every Month,.. it Sucks that this is in the Back of this Book,.. Raising the Price another Buck.
It's Horrible,.. & Should Go .

The New FEATURE Where DC Takes a New up comming Tittle Every Month,.. & throws it in the Back of Most Books,.. is Ok. I just wish they would do it more so with Books I may Be into,.. than Am Not.

I don't read any other books with the Back-up Feature,.. so I dunno about anything Else. Booster Seemed Short this Month,.. Because that Back-up Blue Beetle Nonsense Seemed too long.

[thunderbolt]

Can't wait to get my first Doom Patrol/Metal Men book. That's a match made in comic book heaven.

[johnnystorm]

Let's call them what they are: back-up strips. Co-Features implies that both series are equal and of course they are not. Booster Gold is the book's title & star, and the backup can be changed or removed without affecting the title.

The only book I buy that's been affected was Booster Gold, and as BlackKnight said, the Blue Beetle blows. Granted, I dislike the character, but the story is pretty bad. I've said before, I'd prefer a solo tale of Rip Hunter, a story concerning the heroes involved in the main story, or something related to Booster- even a solo series of his sister!

Haven't picked up the Doom Patrol-Metal Men book, but I hear it's good. We'll see.

The problem inherent with all backup strips is that few people agree on their like for the two series. As a Booster er, booster, I feel ripped off by paying an extra buck for Blue Beetle. BB fans probably feel ripped off at having to buy Booster to read BB. Editorial seems to feel that fans of a semi-cult series like Manhunter will be so happy to have the character continue in any form they will buy the new Gotham title. I dunno...DC tried this before...remember the DC Implosion of the '70s? While the backups weren't the total cause of the Implosion, they certainly did nothing to prevent it, and none of them amounted to much of anything anyway.

In the old days when backups were common practice, comics were a different animal, and if you really think about it, the only really successful backup series were Batgirl, Robin, & Elongated Man. And I'm talking books that had one feature & one backup. All in books carried by Batman, and all pretty much related to him in some way. Action Comics had the Atom, Hawkman, Green Arrow rotation, all JLA members riding on the coattails of Superman. Green Lantern, Dr. Fate, & Firestorm were in The Flash for awhile but were all either phased out or spun into their own series. Green Arrow & Aquaman are arguably the only characters who have been successful (and probably better suited) as backup strips, but their heyday was in the era of giant comics that carried 5 or 6 features (along with a Batman or Superman starring vehicle). Readers back then EXPECTED a variety of heroes per book, anthology format (Dollar Comics anyone?).

And I also must say that Simonson & Goodwin's Manhunter was a fantastic backup series that outshone the main title feature, and would not have otherwise succeeded as a solo title, but it is the exception to all backup feature rules, and DC has never seen fit to not tamper with that character from time to time such as in Secret Society of SupervIllains and Power Company, diluting somewhat the original product.

Adding backups now just seems like a lame attempt to increase the price of certain books and to keep a bunch of characters in the public view, all characters who seem like they would otherwise fade away into obscurity. For whatever reason, DiDio seems intent on that stupid Blue Beetle hanging around.
There are more great characters out there being ignored such as Metamorpho, Kamandi, Omac, Challengers of the Unknown, SWAMP THING (God, please put him back in the DCU and de-vertigoize him!).

[The Toyroom]

^ Hear Hear!

I think the only book I'm buying that has a BACKUP that I've noticed anyway is Booster Gold. However, I can't stand the Jamie Reyes Blue Beetle and have no intention of reading his portion of the book. So I'm paying an extra buck for nothing apparently.

If DC is so intent on keeping these characters in the public eye, they need to launch them in their own series. But the thing is they've already BOMBED in their own series...so why keep beating a dead horse, er, beetle?

And if these characters can really carry their own series, which I suspect they can't...but for the sake of argument let's suppose they can....Then publish the new series at $2.99 instead of this inflated $3.99. I'd rather pay $2.99 for a full book I'm going to read than $3.99 for a book I'm only going to read half of. Makes sense , no?

And if the theory is that the market can only hold so many titles at once, then cancel some of the dead weight or don't launch duplicate titles like the upcoming second JLA and JSA books.....Overkill IMO.

But as I said, I really don't suspect that there's a whole lot of people calling for Blue Beetle or Ravager or Black Canary or Manhunter to carry their own series....in most cases, it's already been a "been there, couldn't pull it off" scenario.

[madmarva]

I don't like paying the extra cash either, but I do like some of the backups. I'm not a fan of the new blue beetle, but its not so bad that i won't read it if its going to be in the back of a book I'm buying.

The ravenger is better than the teen titans at this moment. I like Captain Atom, haven't cared for the story thus far in Action or is it Superman. The question is OK, but JH Williams art is the star of Detective right now.

havnt read doom patrol/Metal Men yet, but I've never really cared for the metal men. I like the 1960s Doom Patrol and have enjoyed them when they intersected with the Titans, but since the original series died, the concept has been stronger than the execution in my opinion. No, I didn't care for Morrison's Doom Patrol. I liked Byrne's revision better, but ultimately it was weak.

I like Black Canary equally as well as I like Green Arrow so that's a wash.

Maybe the JSA should be a split book with the older group taking half and the newer group taking half. I can't see JSA having 2 books for long. One or both will die, which is sad to me.

[The Toyroom]

Maybe the JSA should be a split book with the older group taking half and the newer group taking half. I can't see JSA having 2 books for long. One or both will die, which is sad to me.

Now that Geoff Johns is gone from the world of JSA, I predict the title tanking.....I have no confidence in Willingham and Sturges.

[samurainoir]

Is there any kind of divide between Character and Creator driven titles?

I'm inclined to pick up Greg Rucka's Detective and Geoff Johns' Adventure because I tend to follow those two writers.

[johnnystorm]

Some people will follow a writer but I still pick & choose. For me it depends on the character & execution.

For example, loved James Robinson's Starman, one of the best series ever done. Robinson on this new painted JLA book or Superman...ahhh, not so much. Gail Simone Secret Six-great Wonder Woman- no.Ed Brubaker on Captain America- like it. Daredevil- not my cuppa. Geoff Johns on GL good. Flash- not liking it as much. Superman- not at all. Just my tastes, though.

I tend to follow artists more I think. I could read anything Darwyn Cooke draws. Or Jordi Bernet. John Romita Sr. Jack Kirby. Alex Toth. Even stuff like the recent Spirit series, or Devil Dinosaur.

That being said, there are classic characters who I would by a book of even if monkeys wrote & drew it (DC don't get ideas!).
Doc Savage, Robin Hood, Sherlock Holmes, Lone Ranger

[ctc]

>Is there any kind of divide between Character and Creator driven titles?

I think it depends on the character, and the creator. "Creator driven" usually refers to an independant comic (is that the right term these days?) which is owned and written by the creator. So, yeah; there's a BIG dif there 'cos the crerator can actually have things happen. Big, LASTING things. 'Cos it's their book and they can do what they want.

But when discussing the Big Two-And-A-Half, "creator driven" means something else; and I think it harkens back to the designer comics of the 90's. A lot of cartoonists have become type-cast into certain styles themes of book. No that this isn't always deserved. A lot of cartoonists really only do one or two kind of stories well.... but I think there's a tendency to loook on certain folks as the definitive creator of a ceretain type of comic. Which causes a whole new set of problems 'cos it primes the fans to expect the saem thing from certain people over and over and over. And when that certain thing is no longer novel there's atendency to ascribe the lack of thrill from the book to the writer having suddenly lost their ability. Or the character themselves being deficient and in need of a radical reboot.

>I don't like paying the extra cash either, but I do like some of the backups.

It seems like they're testing the water with a few characters 'cos they're looking for the next big thing and have no clue where to look. Which isn't a BAD thing 'cos it means they're gonna experiment a bit. (Who'da thunk we'd see Kamandi again?) DC must have a helluva time keeping up, especially after stuff like the Justice League cartoons, wherein guys like the Vigilante were popular. ("But.... he's a COWBOY!" I can hear them yell....)

Don C.

[johnnystorm]

I'm not certain testing the waters is correct- Manhunter & Blue Beetle both had ongoing series they couldn't sustain. The new Question had a mini-series spinoff from 52 that didn't do well. I think this is more a case of "we've created these revamped heroes and by God we're gonna use 'em!"

As far as DC keeping up, I'm not certain they even try...JLU was a big hit, proving that the minor heroes like Vig, Crimson Avenger, even B'wana Beast(!) could be popular if handled right- to the point of sustaining the cost of creating an action figure line of those very characters. And yet the JLA comic book is mired in pointless membership changes, boring plotlines, and event related distractions. the one attempt to copy the show's success was a book aimed at kids (which was way better than the mainstream title, btw).
Even their toy line DC Direct doesn't really attempt to access those other characters, instead trotting out endless variations on Superman, Batman, and whatever the heck event they are trying to promote.

Same goes for Teen Titans, Static Shock, Batman Beyond. The editorial attitude seems to indicate they believe the animated stuff is somewhat beneath the current creators, and therefore they don't try to adapt to it. A far cry from the days of the Batman TV craze and the go-go checks. Not that I want to see that return, but back then at least everybody in the world in every media knew enough to jump on the bandwagon and at least capitalize on the moment. Comics used to follow trends- TV Westerns, Davy Crockett, Robin Hood, Disney movies, Romance, whatever sold they did. Now they seem to just re-tread events in their enclosed little worlds.

Marvel at least occasionally seems to go outside the box, with stuff like the Anita Blake series, the Stephen King stuff, even the Obama covers. Even the changes they did to Spider-Man, while unpopular with a lot of fans, at least were something of an attempt to pull the comic worlds in line with the movie version. And the promotional stuff they do is different- midnight releases for the King stuff, last week's 70th anniversary party release. It doesn't always amount to anything, but the attempt is there, and sometimes it works, like with the Obama variants and the King stuff (which especially brought new readers into comic shops, if only to buy the Dark Tower stuff, and maybe a couple picked up a Spider-man out of curiosity).

And DC did what- try to revive X-Files? Gaming stuff like Warcraft? A bunch of kids series ? And in no way do I think that kids series are bad- there are certainly not enough of them. But the basic concepts could be adapted to the main titles as well.

DC brought Paul Dini onboard with Detective Comics, and he produced a rather average run that really went nowhere- hampered again by the event crossover stuff. Why wasn't he offered JLA? Maybe he has had enough of it and didn't want it, but it would seem that would be a no-brainer. His work on 52 & Countdown were worthless, year long series that basically accomplished nothing, but editorial meddling certainly ruined those books.

Mark Waid wanted Superman- DC went to James Robinson (twice). A lot of that just smacks of office politics, the WalMart mentality running the company- follow the head ffice dictates and never deviate from the plan, If you think otherwise we will find somebody who can follow directions. I think that's a good assesment of DC at this point in time. They are the WalMart of Comic Books.

And yes, there is stuff being created that is just great- you mention Kamandi, certainly the best series in Wednesday Comics, at least in my opinion, but after this book ends will we see more of it? If we do, will it be in the same format? I suspect no follow up to it. DC doesn't seem to even know how to promote a book like Wednesday Comics- it should be out there on newsstands & book stores, or somehow marketed elsewhere-Walmart, Target... instead it's in comic shops only, being sold to the same group who already know what it is and where to find it. So the uniqueness is lost once again to the average joe public who might find it interesting.

[The Toyroom]

Mark Waid wanted Superman- DC went to James Robinson (twice).

Should have given it to Waid......Robinson's Superman SUCKS! What happened? This is the dude that gave us The Golden Age and Starman...FREAKIN' STARMAN! Now it seems he can't write his way out of a paper bag.

[ctc]

>The editorial attitude seems to indicate they believe the animated stuff is somewhat beneath the current creators, and therefore they don't try to adapt to it.

I think part of the problem at DC is the old "too many Chiefs" thing. They're part of a HUGE multimedia conglomerate, and I gotta wonder where on the food chain the actual comics come in. Sometimes I get the impression they're more of a nuisance to the big BIG execs than anything else. So you'd get the movies and cartoons trying to distance themselves from the books. At least as far as the execs are concerned. Add to the mix ther attitudes of the actual production crews, who (for the cartoons at least) seem intent on cramming as much old school nerdly goodness as they can into their work.

Which still leaves the comics themselves out of the loop, since it's usually the OLDER stuff the crews like. Add to that how many editors seem intent on being their own little Caesars, remolding the books to their view and making a name for themselves.... since the main office isn't paying attention....

>Comics used to follow trends- TV Westerns, Davy Crockett, Robin Hood, Disney movies, Romance, whatever sold they did. Now they seem to just re-tread events in their enclosed little worlds.

Yeah; your example is twofold good, 'cos comics used to follow trends but comic COMPANIES used to practice intellectual diversity. Check out the subscription forms for old Marvel and DC comics. DC was doing romance and western comics into the 70's. You wouldn't see that nowadays, although I think the fans are more to blame than the companies. The mid 80's saw the rise of the hardcore comic nerd, and if you tried to do a romance comic today, they wouldn't know what to make of it (unless it featured superheroes) and they'd constantly obsess over where it fit into the overall continuity.

When they decided to bring Japanese comics to America, the Shonen Jump guys brought all sorts of books: girls comics, adult comics, kids comics, comedies, action, fantasy.... It let them grab markets that the Big-Two-And-A-Half haven't been able to touch for over a decade. And by diversifying it let them KEEP those readers when they got older and their interests changed. (33 COLLECTED VOLUMES about a GUY PLAYING TENNIS! Who'da thunk?) AND it helped broaden their fanbase's attitude of what a comic is, making them more susceptible to genuinely different types of story. (As opposed to the N. American audience, for whom comic=superheroes, and begrudgingly, Archie.)

The anthoplogies and backups seem to me to be an answer to that; trying stuff that's new or seeding stuff that wasn't initially successful but had an audience in the hopes that something sticks. There IS a problem with it though:

>in no way do I think that kids series are bad- there are certainly not enough of them. But the basic concepts could be adapted to the main titles as well.

But ultimately they're STILL superheroes. Sure the techniques could (and probably SHOULD) be adapted to their regular books, 'cos they're not really far removed from the regualr books. Some of 'em could have been scripts from the 80's Justoice League!

So it's different, but not too different. Which is good 'cos it brings diversity to the company. But it's still not that different.

>DC doesn't seem to even know how to promote a book like Wednesday Comics- it should be out there on newsstands & book stores, or somehow marketed elsewhere-Walmart, Target...

Yup! ALL their books should be! One of the things hampering them is the direct market mindset; which has been the conventional wisdom of mainstream comics for a while now.

>So the uniqueness is lost once again to the average joe public who might find it interesting.

Yup! So their product becomes increasingly inbred as they try to maintain an ever diminishing audience rather than expanding to the general public. (Who apparentyl really love tennis. Seriously! 33 VOLUMES?!?!?)

Don C.

[kryptosmaster]

I didn't notice the price increase until this thread. I have been behind in my comics and just starting to catch up. Just read Booster 21 & 22. Booster was GREAT! Beetle was ok. I liked the art but would much rather pay 2.99 and get all Booster than the extra dough for a character I didn't even care enough about to buy his own book. I think the reason they put Beetle in Booster is because of the old Ted Kord Beetle/Booster friendship.
I didn't get the Captain Atom story at all.
I was also wondering...I hadn't actually sat down and counted the pages but are we paying for these "previews" pages at the end of some of the recent books? Or are these added pages for these useless "previews" that we can probably read online or in "Previews" magazine? I'll be very insulted to find that they are taking away story pages for these "ads".
Rich

[GreenLantern9999]

As far as paying the extra buck goes DC and Marvel are raising the price of comics in general. Now Marvel is just flat out raising the price to 3.99. But DC said "Hey what if we raise the price of some books and give your extra content then maybe it won't be so bad". Now Marvel was tricky about it. One month you got a double size new avengers special issues for 3.99 and next month you got a regular size issues for 3.99. So what I mean to say is if they drop that extra back up strip you will not get your buck back. Now why they can't just apply it to longer main stories I don't know but the back ups seem a bit lesser in quality so they probably don't pay as much for that talent? Just my thoughts.