When I Liked Superheroes

[Riffster]

There was a special on discovery today talking about comics, They had Stan Lee, Avi Arad and a bunch of writers/artists etc.. anyway they were talking about how Dc comics was old school bad guys vs good guys thing and Marvel was blurring of the lines, I guess that's why I gravitate to DC.

[Werewolf]

You would rather these Super Hero's WHO Mind you are Suppost to be "Super" Be Drawn with Beer Guts,

I didn't see anyone saying they wanted super heroes with beer guts. Saying I'd like to see Batman drawn like a gymnast or martial artist is a far cry from saying I want Batman with a beer gut. Having Batman look like a 350 pound steroid freak is unrealistic and not right for the character. I want him to look like the toned and agile martial artist he is supposed to be. Not some bloated immobile vein popping freak that looks like he is about to explode.

Nor did I say I want out of shape Super heroines. I just want their waists large enough to hold their internal organs and their breasts to actually look like breasts instead of gravity defying rock hard orbs jutting out from directly under their collar bones.

I would just like to see the characters drawn to look like actual humans again instead of grotesque hulking monsters and anatomically incorrect sex toys.

[suspense39]

comics

even as a child i liked the comic art of the 60's more than my era of the 70's. I would go into comic shops as a child and stare at the 60's books on the wall, the first one i ever bought was a silver surfer #2 i think it was $15.00 back then.... a lot of money in the 70's i had to save for months. it. anyway i had about a 10 book collection which i no longer have, consisting of that book a few daredevils and a couple submariners. that was pretty much all i could afford. Now that i am an adult and make my own $ I collect 60's marvel hero books just what i always wanted as a kid as far as toy collecting goes i really like my era of the 70's but i also like the 60's.

[ctc]

Hmmmm....

A lot going on here, and I wanted to wait 'til everybody else got rolling before sounding off.

>When characters like Batman and Superman are starting to look like the Incredible Hulk in spandex, it's time to tone it down.

Hmmmm.... it's bee said that "all emphasis is NO emphasis" and I think that applies here. In most superhero books the heroes were drawn bigger than the average people in the background. It reinforced their super-heroness. Which is fine. The problem came in the 90's. There was this weird "make 'em BIGGER!" sort of competition going on, to the point that even the BACKGROUND characters were huge! I remember reading Pitt #1 and marvelling at the builds of not only the bank robbers, but the bank WORKERS as well! But that came about because a lot of the artists seemed to pursue a singular ideal of the human form, rather than developing different physiques.

I've noticed that a lot of the newer artists make an attempt to mix it up a bit; which is great! For a while there it seemed like EVERYBODY was pursuing a singular ideal comic book, which really whacked variety. I've always suspected that this was the reason for the crash of the 90's: the speculators left, and the folks reading their books had no alternatives when the point came that they wanted something a little different.

>they were talking about how Dc comics was old school bad guys vs good guys thing and Marvel was blurring of the lines,

I've always felt that the DC cast were a lot more archtypical than the Marvel characters, which is cool. The DC characters are all bigger than life, and always were. They're legends. Marvel promoted the "superheroes with problems" idea, making their cast more human. Which is also cool. It differentiates the two companies. It's difficult to imagine Superman worrying about the rent; he's Superman fer horque's sake! But it's easy to picture Spiderman worrying. That "ground level" kind of thing was written into the character right from the get go.

I think part of the problem with a lot of their comics is that they try to make characters do things counter to this idea. Not that it CAN'T be done, and done well; but it takes a lot more setup than they allow for. (Batman would have to be having a REALLY bad day to call someone a "******." He's normally above that sort of thing.)

>All women have six foot long legs and Pamela Anderson boobs.

....hee heee.... boobs....

Wait. What were we talking about....?

>Doc Doom would say things like..."it was you who sought to destroy Me...but in the end, it is I who will destroy you"

Oh yeah.... Funny thing; if you look at it a lot of characters STILL talk stiltedly! But I think some characters (like Doom) SHOULD talk like that! He's an egomaniac to the degree it's almost a power! The cliche dialogue really is just another tool in the repitoire of the writer. I don't think EVERYBODY should talk like that.... but that's the whole "all emphasis is no emphasis" thing again.

>the idea has been to stretch the concepts as far as possible.

Yeah. I think too often newer books are based around marketing more than the story.

>if Comics hadn't evolved...I wouldn't still be reading them.

For me it often feels the exact opposite. I got into comics because of the independant boom of the early 80's, so watching the definition of "comic book" contract 'til it was synonymous with "Marvel, DC and sometimes Image" feels like a loss. Same with discussions nowadays of "the industry" that leaves out stuff like Archie and Shonen Jump.

Don C.

[Gorn Captain]

To be honest, it was a breath of fresh air to see Nite Owl in Watchmen. He isn't ripped, but kicks posterior anyway!
The Punisher, for example, was always "in shape", but never a bodybuilder (until later on).

To me, Batman is still "Detective Comics", not "Pumping Iron Comics".

I see no need to also push impressionable kids into thinking that only musclemen can do the right thing. That only superbabes can fight crime.

I don't mind some characters being toned, but not all! Show some variety.
Why, for example, is Magneto now so muscular? Does he need big muscles to "do his thing"?

[Gorn Captain]

I didn't see anyone saying they wanted super heroes with beer guts. Saying I'd like to see Batman drawn like a gymnast or martial artist is a far cry from saying I want Batman with a beer gut. Having Batman look like a 350 pound steroid freak is unrealistic and not right for the character. I want him to look like the toned and agile martial artist he is supposed to be. Not some bloated immobile vein popping freak that looks like he is about to explode.

Nor did I say I want out of shape Super heroines. I just want their waists large enough to hold their internal organs and their breasts to actually look like breasts instead of gravity defying rock hard orbs jutting out from directly under their collar bones.

I would just like to see the characters drawn to look like actual humans again instead of grotesque hulking monsters and anatomically incorrect sex toys.

Amen!
You are my hero!
Now start working out immediately. I want to see you ripped and out of proportion asap!!!!!

[Riffster]

magneto uses those magnetic work out machines

[Gorn Captain]

magneto uses those magnetic work out machines

That actually makes sense.
He should be on the shopping channel!

"Hi, my name is Eric Lehnsherr, aka Magneto. You may remember me from titles such as Uncanny X-Men, Amazing X-Men, and The Brotherhood of Evil Mutants. I'm here to show you this amazing new product.
You might ask: how does the Master of Magnetism look so toned? Where does he get the time to work out, in between trying to destroy Homo Inferior and taking over the world?
Well, I have just the thing for you!"

[ctc]

>The Punisher, for example, was always "in shape", but never a bodybuilder (until later on).

It's a well doccumented phenomenon that a superhero's chest size increases with popularity.

Don C.

[aquatroy]

>The Punisher, for example, was always "in shape", but never a bodybuilder (until later on).

It's a well doccumented phenomenon that a superhero's chest size increases with popularity.

Don C.

Exactly. Just think of how Wolverine has grown over the years. He started out at a wiry 5'3". Byrne turned him into a hairy bowling ball. Then Sam Keith got ahold of him and it was katy bar the door! Now Wolverine is played by a man that's 6'2".

Not a knock on Sam Keith. He's very good.

[huedell]

.. Now Wolverine is played by a man that's 6'2".

That's funny that Jackman is that tall---I'd never have guessed that.

[kingdom warrior]

Exactly. Just think of how Wolverine has grown over the years. He started out at a wiry 5'3". Byrne turned him into a hairy bowling ball. Then Sam Keith got ahold of him and it was katy bar the door! Now Wolverine is played by a man that's 6'2".

Not a knock on Sam Keith. He's very good.

You know That's been one of my pet peeves with the Character Wolverine. He was a small Character much like the animal and then he was drawn like a large hero with giant muscles which he shouldn't be. Wolverines are know for their fierce temper and not backing down to larger animals.

In the new movie there's a line when Logan's on the bridge trying to pass the two guys. The big guy calls him a runt or something like that....I sat there and said to my son Jackman is 6'2" he's no runt they threw that out when he was cast.

[cjefferys]

I don't even read modern superhero comics, they just aren't the same anymore (and way too expensive!). But when ever I flip through a 1970's Marvel or DC, I get a huge rush of nostalgia. Those are the comics I grew up with, so that's my favourite era. Actually, I'm planning on looking for low grade "reader" issues from that era when I go to flea markets and yard sales this summer, as I've recently really had a craving to read those old comics again.

Now one my favorite classic comic artists is Gold Key Flash Gordon artist Al Williamson. Now that guy could draw. Beautiful women, realistic men and detailed ships and environments.

Al Williamson's amazing, I'm a big fan (especially his EC stuff). I met him at a comics convention about 20 years ago. Really nice guy, and I had him sign a couple of my ECs.

[ctc]

>He was a small Character much like the animal and then he was drawn like a large hero with giant muscles which he shouldn't be.

Superhero fans like to hack on the Japanese comics 'cos everybody looks the same, but the phenomenon is present in mainstream American comics too. A lot of artists end up with a generic physique; and EVERYBODY gets it. (A lot of 'em have generic faces too; but that's another issue.) I think Wolverine is the one who suffers from this the most, since he's SUPPOSED to be short, but he's usually not drawn that way.

I've often suspected this happens 'cos of super-rushed schedules. Artists start shorthanding things to make up time, and they don't have the time available for a lot of prepwork and design finalization. (Also why I think Superhero artists have had a helluva time keeping technology on model over the years.)

>when ever I flip through a 1970's Marvel or DC, I get a huge rush of nostalgia.

I've noticed that stories from the 70's; especially the early 70's, are also INCREDIBLY densely packed. There's usually a lot going on at any given time. For example, when the Black Llama showed up in Iron Man (around 75 I think) they'd have no less than FOUR subplots running concurrently!

Don C.

[aquatroy]

Hawkgirl (Kendra) is also suffering from this phenomenon. When Johns and Moralis introduced her, she had a specific body type and a very unique personality. You wouldn't think that two legends like Simonson and Chykin would screw the pooch as badly as they did, but they turned Kendra into another bubble chested Heroin. Sad sad sad.