The end of printed comics?

[VintageMike]

I like to hold my books as well. I think the death-knell is premature. Can I see the number of titles produced going down? Yes. It's hard to know for sure but I think
"the readership" as it were are older and really not kids so much. Most of the heavy comic buying is being done by people in their late twenties on up not by kids. The older readers as has been expressed here like the physical books.
A lot of things that help companies now would be extinct. Right now if there is a "hot" issue it could conceivably sell out. In that case a second printing can done and more money is made. The Spider-Man/Obama issue is on it's fifth printing as an example. If it's a digital file then imagine if one person could jusy by it and send it out to everyone with the same device. Forget about copy protection because there are ways around what's out there now and there would be ways around this. Worst-case scenario you'll see what was around in the sixties. The big-gun titles, titles with the big gun characters and little else. On th eother side of that coin that's where I see these devices playing a role. Instead of having to print a run on something that wouldn't be profitbale enough
they may be offered exclusively in a digital format.

[Cosmicman]

I've tried, but I just can't read comic or books online. Maybe that has something to do with not being able to carry the PC into the bathroom!

That's what those new hand held Internet palm pilots are good for!

My girlfirend has a Verizon phone that can dial into the Internet from anywhere. Retrieve information and act like a laptop. It is amazing.
If they can do this, they sure can flip through Adobe Acrobat scanned comic books just like a real comic.

[ctc]

>I've tried, but I just can't read comic or books online.

Y'know.... Luddite that I am I can read 'em online or on paper. For me the important thing is reading the book; no matter HOW I do it. Some stuff I can only get online, but I'm okay with that. Paper is a lot more convenient. It doesn't just go away when there's a power outage....

>I agree that DC & Marvel hold the market share NOW

When you talk comics, I DISagree. I think the Big Two and a Half have the lion's share of comic book character marketing; but I think their books are running third or fourth place. Most of their sales come from comic shops, and are made to comic fans; whereas Archie and the Shonen/VIZ stuff is sold durned near everywhere. I remember there was an article that mentioned the Death of Captain America had a doubled print run; 150,000 issues. Putting the average Marvel book at a 65,000-75,000 print run. An Archie digest has a print run of around 180,000; and they put out 10-20 different ones a month. Dunno how many different books Marvel puts out every month; but overall I think Archie at least ties them. But for Archie comics, the books are their main product, so they matter more. Hence the push.

But I don't think Marvel and DC worry so much. The comic divisions are part of much larger entertainment conglomerates. The characters live on in other media, like toys, movies, video games.... Nowadays the books are pretty much an afterthought.

Don C.

[Boris71]

To be honest I'm a Huge fan of comics, and literally have a room full of them, and for a long time when people spoke about E-books my stock reply was I've never said my books run out of batteries, but with the way costs of comics, books and magazines has gone up, I can really see the benefit of e-publishing, plus it gives a more level field to any one in the area and we will be more likely to get characters and stories from inie publishers that we cannot get now.

and with e-book readers out there, that are quiet large and many companies on the verge of releasing mag sized e-book readers we as a consumer won't see that much differance. plus you have the bennift of not only a wider range of comics, at a reduced cost, but how will the big guys justify charging more than the small ones?, plus back issues without scalpers profits in mind will be a lot easier to get hold of, and marvel/dc may finally realise that what people want when their downloads drop off with the rubbish the do now.

I can see a lot of pluses to this when it happens, I for one hope it is sooner rather than later, yes I will mis my comic shop trip, and the feel/smell of an old comic, but I won't miss the money out of my wallet that I have now, plus storage will be so much easier, a few blu-ray/dvdroms, and a couple of years woth of issues are stored away

[Boris71]

An Archie digest has a print run of around 180,000; and they put out 10-20 different ones a month. Dunno how many different books Marvel puts out every month; but overall I think Archie at least ties them. But for Archie comics, the books are their main product, so they matter more. Hence the push.
Don C.

I have to be honest I like the sonic comc, the modern marvel and dc art owrk doesn't do it fo me, this water colour paint effect is ok in a special or GN but not in my monthly titles

[Evel KMego]

Ah, the only modern comic I read anyway is "The Undersea Adventures of Capt'n Eli" (Hey Jay)!

[megoscott]

I picked up those Spiderman and Avengers DVDs that have 40 years of comics in pdf. Really brilliant, exactly what I wanted. Easy to browse through.

Comics aren't the same to me nowadays anyway. The slick paper and high quality printing takes away the tactile feel---I think that's reserved for vintage comics with their rough paper and funky smell. The way they paint them now, might as well look at them on the screen where the quality is best.

But the end of comic shops? Man, that sucks. For some geeks it could even be a health hazzard, they need SOME reason to leave the house.

[johnnystorm]

>
When you talk comics, I DISagree. I think the Big Two and a Half have the lion's share of comic book character marketing; but I think their books are running third or fourth place. Most of their sales come from comic shops, and are made to comic fans; whereas Archie and the Shonen/VIZ stuff is sold durned near everywhere. I remember there was an article that mentioned the Death of Captain America had a doubled print run; 150,000 issues. Putting the average Marvel book at a 65,000-75,000 print run. An Archie digest has a print run of around 180,000; and they put out 10-20 different ones a month. Dunno how many different books Marvel puts out every month; but overall I think Archie at least ties them.

But print run & sales are two different things... Shonen & Archie may be everywhere, but everything not sold inside an actual Diamond serviced Comic book Shop is returnable for credit. And no comic shop stocks either of those publishers in depth- maybe a few copies of them over any customer orders.
I've worked in both comic shop & Walden Books- those returnable books & magazines have the covers torn off and then they go in the trash (a part of the job I hated getting assigned to do!).
So Archie printing 180, 000 copies might only translate to half that in sales...a still impressive number by today's market, but not as big as DC & Marvel numbers- which mostly do come from non-returnable full sales, at least for the floppy mags (graphic novels are a different story).

[ctc]

>But print run & sales are two different things...

They are, but you're not gonna print 180,000 copies every month if you're only selling 60,000. That's why I suspect the actual sales numbers are a lot higher for the non-Marvel/DC stuff. Half of 180,000 is 90,000; which is still higher than the 75,000 print run a Marvel book might get.

I think for children of the 80's it's a tough conept to wrap your brain around: the idea of Marvel and DC NOT being the pinnacle of comic books. But after the 90's (and the flood of "special limited edition super chocolatey multi holo-foil cover variants EXTREME!!!") people turned away from the comic shop. And THAT'S what did the big two and a half in, since they'd spent most of the decade catering to the comic shop crowd. (Those being collectors, speculators and longterm fans.) Nowadays the companies selling to the magazine racks and bookstores have the edge. Better distribution and more importantly NEW readers. Almost a decade ago kids would pick up Shonen Jump for Yugi-Oh; now that they're older the company can keep 'em reading with stuff for an older crowd, like DeathNote, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, etc. They've even expanded their operations with a line of books aimed at young girls; an audience the big two and a half have historicly scored very poorly with. And there are a LOT of different books in that line.

....the Archie thing I don't really understand, but they're still here and doing okay. (Although I wonder what their sales were ten, twenty, thirty years ago?)

Don C.

[jaypiscopo]

Ah, the only modern comic I read anyway is "The Undersea Adventures of Capt'n Eli" (Hey Jay)!

the check is in the mail...

[johnnystorm]

>But print run & sales are two different things...

They are, but you're not gonna print 180,000 copies every month if you're only selling 60,000. That's why I suspect the actual sales numbers are a lot higher for the non-Marvel/DC stuff. Half of 180,000 is 90,000; which is still higher than the 75,000 print run a Marvel book might get.

I think for children of the 80's it's a tough conept to wrap your brain around: the idea of Marvel and DC NOT being the pinnacle of comic books. But after the 90's (and the flood of "special limited edition super chocolatey multi holo-foil cover variants EXTREME!!!") people turned away from the comic shop. And THAT'S what did the big two and a half in, since they'd spent most of the decade catering to the comic shop crowd. (Those being collectors, speculators and longterm fans.) Nowadays the companies selling to the magazine racks and bookstores have the edge. Better distribution and more importantly NEW readers. Almost a decade ago kids would pick up Shonen Jump for Yugi-Oh; now that they're older the company can keep 'em reading with stuff for an older crowd, like DeathNote, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, etc. They've even expanded their operations with a line of books aimed at young girls; an audience the big two and a half have historicly scored very poorly with. And there are a LOT of different books in that line.

....the Archie thing I don't really understand, but they're still here and doing okay. (Although I wonder what their sales were ten, twenty, thirty years ago?)

Don C.

I'm not a child of the '80s, I'm a child of the '60s...I was buying comics off the spinner rack back when Dell & Gold Key were around. And I wish they still were!

I don't intend to defend the Big Two in any case. I agree that the shape of their comic book worlds has entirely been driven by greed & short-sighted profit gains. Both companies continue to practice the devastating policies of the 1990s with excessive mini-series, over-priced event driven comics, variant covers, and poor execution of their products. Whatever heartaches come about, they've brought upon themselves.

I'm not certain about the magazine distribution system being advantageous. My understanding is that it's not in that great of shape. While Archie might have legions of fans, it rack existance owes a lot to the surrounding magazines like TV Guide and Weekly World Gossip Globe or whatever it's called. Most grocery store chains purchase magazines in a bulk package, they don't select specific titles for each store. The magazine distribution (putting out the old and returning the new) is handled by third-party indviduals hired to service the stores. I personally know people who handle this job as merchandisers...on the new release day they do magazines. The next day they do candy for another company, the next day they may reset frozen food for another company. Magazine companies purchase rack space in stores from the store itself. No grocery store orders these items (or for that matter a great many items such as Pepsi, Coke , snacks, etc)...those items are filled & stocked by merchandisers hired to do just that. And when a contract is up for negotiation, the rack space items can change, based upon which company has submitted the winning bid for space. This isn't only for magazines either- companies such as Pepsi, Lays, Hershey, etc. bid and purchase selling space in grocery stores, paying big bucks for premium space such as endcaps, storefront displays, even having product placed on a certain shelf spot in the aisle. So even though Archie books might be selling well in a grocery store today, the continued existance of the magazine in that particular store chain could change the following year based on how well the entire magazine package did. If the chain decides they could make more profit utilizing that space at the register for candy bars or batteries, then books will be gone.

In the direct market system , there is a certain correlation to ordering based on sales. The problem lies in the fact that peolpe looking or buying Archie etc aren't going to find much selection in your average comic shop these days, and comic retailers don't really seem to have much interest in building an audience for said titles. Also they have the disadvantage of carrying those books at their own investment of cash, and there aren't many retailers around working on enough of a profit margin to risk capital over & above the usual titles they know they will turn. I'm not saying that's a better system, I think it was created during a boom period and has contributed to the decline of the comics industry by creating a contained market. Marvel's distribution fiasco certainly created the monopoly Diamond now has on the system, a situation that will no longer allow growth within industry as it continually must recycle it's product to a shrinking market base that finds it's options slowly being choked off.

As far as Archie sales figures, here are a couple links you might find interesting:

Archie Sales Figures (Almost Complete) Comics Worth Reading

Comic Book Sales Figures for 1969


The numbers are in line with what you suggested, but just look at those 1960s numbers. Of course, that's apples & oranges.

[johnnystorm]

Here's another article concerning magazine distribution problems:

Magazine Distributors Clash With Publishers

[ctc]

>I agree that the shape of their comic book worlds has entirely been driven by greed & short-sighted profit gains. Both companies continue to practice the devastating policies of the 1990s

I've mentioned it before; but it bears repeating that I kinda feel sorry for Marvel and DC, and sometimes Image. They've kinda worked themselves into a corner. I think back in the 80's they appropriated the comic specialty shop out of fear that one of them upstart companies was gonna ursurp them through the direct sales tactic. (TMNT shook a LOT of people up.) Back in the day I can remember at least 50% of a comic shop's rack space NOT being Marvel or DC. There was a different audience, people who wanted First, or Eclipse, or Pacific comics. By the late 80's it was almost all Marvel and DC, owing in no small part to the speculators. (AND the independant glut.) It seemed like that speculator mentality is what carried into the 90's. So even if Marvel and DC WANTED to escape, they couldn't. And then Image made money hand over fist, and a new template was born.

They couldn't even shift gears once the bottom fell out 'cos their main market; the comic shop crowd, was admant AGAINST most of the other templates of the day. (European comics were too sexy, Japanese comics too weird, and Archie isn't really a comic book 'cos nobody flies or wears tights.) So they had to work within a very small template or risk losing their audience. So we get the constantly recycled non-event; endless permutations of the few popular books, and preoccupation with sales over quality. Fiscal circumstance almost guarantees that they're gonna produce "Super-Ultimate Final Crisis on Infinite Civil Zombie Wars part 4" next year.

>I'm not certain about the magazine distribution system being advantageous. My understanding is that it's not in that great of shape.

Well.... it might not be in good shape but it's probably better than the direct sales comic shop system right now. At any rate, it offers the opportunity for more exposure.

>Here's another article concerning magazine distribution problems:

Didn't we see something like that a few years back with the comic distributors; when Marvel and DC bought a few of 'em?

>As far as Archie sales figures....

Every time I think about comic sales, this comes to mind:

Stupid Comics

Don C.

[Boris71]

I was reading about the cap, thor and avengers movie and saw this tagged at the bootom of the article

Even with the furor surrounding Marvel’s movie, toy, and video games, the company has not forgotten its core; it is poised to take advantage of the interactive potential for comics as they move to the Internet, cellular phones, and iPhones. Marvel plans to continue efforts to digitize a 70-year library of comics and hopes to deliver these titles to an entirely new audience around the world.

and who says we won't see all non printed comics in the next few years

[ctc]

>the company has not forgotten its core;

lines like this really make me nervous. It's like whan I hear "we were all big fans of the original and wanted to keep the same feel...."

>Marvel plans to continue efforts to digitize a 70-year library of comics

This is no surprise. Digital copies would be easier to care for and take up less space, most printers are digital these days so if you're looking to do reprints on paper it's a lot cheaper than the old fashioned ways of printing, and since the books are already done and the crafters paid: ANY money you make from them is nothing but profit. Plus, it's easier to switch media/format once your stuff is digital.

Don C.