Klingons I can't finish

[jessica]

Doug, the only thing I see looking at them upclose is that the weave of the pants are not all going in the same direction, unless you meant it to be that way to differentiate between the Klingons.

What did you use for the silver Klingon top? That would make a perfect fabric for a UFO moonbase chick.

[cdhall]

Doug, the only thing I see looking at them upclose is that the weave of the pants are not all going in the same direction, unless you meant it to be that way to differentiate between the Klingons.

No, that was an accident. I prefer Kor and the Gold Klingon's pants. The "Silver" Klingon has the weave going vertical. I prefer the Horizontal way with the dull side out. I think that is pretty TOS which was another accident. Kor may also be correct, it may be the lighting making him look more shiny. The other side of the fabric is very shiny and lighter in color.

What did you use for the silver Klingon top? That would make a perfect fabric for a UFO moonbase chick.

I bought that at a fabric store years ago. I think it is exactly the same material as the Andorian suit. I noticed this after I got my Emce Andorian a few weeks ago and made Thelin. I think Doc sells that suit by itself if you want to repurpose it. I get all my fabric from either Hancock Fabric, JoAnne's Fabrics, Hobby Lobby or WalMart. I have hit them all. Hancock seems to be the best. The vinyl I used for Kor was on sale for 60% off the day I was in there so I bought it to try it out.

[Captain]

"Also, the TOS Klingon shirts disappear behind the belt. Do you think these look better as a tunic that hangs below the belt? I meant to have that fixed later but I'm curious what you think."

I think it looks all right...kind of makes them look like a missing link between the TOS and movie uniforms. Phase:II Klingon suits you might call them!?

[cdhall]

Yes, my movie has always had a name. And I didn't think about it because it wasn't a term then but it is/was a Reboot or Reimagining I guess. Although it was intended to be consistent with TOS. As I probably said, I think TWOK was a reboot. Going by movie evidence alone, I don't think STTMP and STTWOK could have both happened.

Kirk would not have come back from Admiralty twice for example.

But thank you. I like the longer one also. And it should be easier to make. I do like the Silver more every time I see the photo. Maybe I'll use both for something. I'll consult with my tailor although they have not replied to me yet...

I also miss the Enterprise "Arboretum Window" from STTMP. There are sentimental things from that movie for many of those of us who saw it in Theaters I guess.

[Captain]

I think TWOK happened in continuity Doug. If you look at the stardates correlated to real world years, the original series mission ended in approximately 2269-2270. TMP took place 2-3 (2.5 according to the film and novel) after, which would be 2271 0r 2272 approx..Although not officially established, it is generally accepted Kirk remained a Captain for another 5 year mission after Trek TMP. That puts us at 2277 more or less. According to Generations, Kirk then retired from Starfleet and went to live in the mountain cabin chasing Antonia around and jumping horses over a ditch....until Starfleet came a calling, asking him to re-up in charge of training and operations (I'm guessing at operations). Although never stated officially anywhere, I figure Starfleet used the Enterprise as a bargaining chip here. "You return to Starfleet and we wont strip down the old girl and make tuna cans out of her"...that type of thing.
TWOK happened in 2281. I'm not sure when Kirk returned exactly, but since its been made clear most cadets are in the academy for four years, I'm assuming Jimmy T came back approximately 4 years before..2278 or 79 maybe? 2279 being the most likely....especially since Kirk asked Spock how good his cadets really were in the film. To my mind that means a few things, either the Admiral wasnt involved in the training process throughout (possibly not at all--maybe just approved crews for the ships at the end of training?), the Admiral only over saw training, but was not directly involved, or Kirk came back into the fold late in the game.

It all makes sense...kind of.

[cdhall]

Thanks Captain. I know I was in Starfleet around 1987 I think and my Captain told me that the Novel of STII cleared up some of that. I remember that I read that book but the only thing I recall is Saavik punching a support beam and denting it. She was 1/2 Romulan in the book.

I may dig into your explanation a bit more later. But thank you.

[60'schild]

I think TWOK happened in continuity Doug. If you look at the stardates correlated to real world years, the original series mission ended in approximately 2269-2270. TMP took place 2-3 (2.5 according to the film and novel) after, which would be 2271 0r 2272 approx..Although not officially established, it is generally accepted Kirk remained a Captain for another 5 year mission after Trek TMP. That puts us at 2277 more or less. According to Generations, Kirk then retired from Starfleet and went to live in the mountain cabin chasing Antonia around and jumping horses over a ditch....until Starfleet came a calling, asking him to re-up in charge of training and operations (I'm guessing at operations). Although never stated officially anywhere, I figure Starfleet used the Enterprise as a bargaining chip here. "You return to Starfleet and we wont strip down the old girl and make tuna cans out of her"...that type of thing.
TWOK happened in 2281. I'm not sure when Kirk returned exactly, but since its been made clear most cadets are in the academy for four years, I'm assuming Jimmy T came back approximately 4 years before..2278 or 79 maybe? 2279 being the most likely....especially since Kirk asked Spock how good his cadets really were in the film. To my mind that means a few things, either the Admiral wasnt involved in the training process throughout (possibly not at all--maybe just approved crews for the ships at the end of training?), the Admiral only over saw training, but was not directly involved, or Kirk came back into the fold late in the game.

It all makes sense...kind of.

Fascinating.

[cdhall]

I'm still trying to figure out the continuity and timeline. I'll check my Star Trek Chronology and post again.

[cdhall]

Star Trek Chronology et al

OK, I'm trying to get this straight and I'm also check the Star Trek Chronology (http://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Chro.../dp/0671536109) a fine book once upon a time as I recall.

Although I know I have another older Star Trek Encyclopedia which I think is contradicted by some of the rewriting of "history" with Star Trek: First Contact. But that is for another thread perhaps.

So here goes...

I think TWOK happened in continuity Doug. If you look at the stardates correlated to real world years, the original series mission ended in approximately 2269-2270.

The Chronology agrees that the 5 year mission probably ended in 2269, but the Math is interesting. Apparently the 1st year of the Mission occurred between Where No Man Has Gone Before and Season 1 which must have been the 2nd year of the 5yr mission.... It also states that Kirk was promoted to Admiral and chief of Starfleet operations at this time.

TMP took place 2-3 (2.5 according to the film and novel) after, which would be 2271

The Chronology agrees that STTMP occurred in 2271, 2.5yrs after the 5yr Mission ended and Kirk accepted promotion to Admiral and Starfleet Chief of Staff.

0r 2272 approx..Although not officially established, it is generally accepted Kirk remained a Captain for another 5 year mission after Trek TMP. That puts us at 2277 more or less.

The Chronology states that in 2271 after STTMP "USS Enterprise embarks on Kirk's second five-year mission...." which would have ended in 2276 which is consistent with your accounting.

According to Generations, Kirk then retired from Starfleet and went to live in the mountain cabin chasing Antonia around and jumping horses over a ditch....until Starfleet came a calling, asking him to re-up in charge of training and operations (I'm guessing at operations). Although never stated officially anywhere, I figure Starfleet used the Enterprise as a bargaining chip here. "You return to Starfleet and we wont strip down the old girl and make tuna cans out of her"...that type of thing.
TWOK happened in 2281.

You and The Chronology diverge here, it states that TWOK was 2285, stardate 8130.3

I'm not sure when Kirk returned exactly, but since its been made clear most cadets are in the academy for four years, I'm assuming Jimmy T came back approximately 4 years before..2278 or 79 maybe? 2279 being the most likely....

The Chronology states that in 2277 "James Kirk accepts an appointment to the Starfleet Academy faculty...."

This would be 1 year after Kirk's 2nd 5yr mission ended.

especially since Kirk asked Spock how good his cadets really were in the film. To my mind that means a few things, either the Admiral wasnt involved in the training process throughout (possibly not at all--maybe just approved crews for the ships at the end of training?), the Admiral only over saw training, but was not directly involved, or Kirk came back into the fold late in the game.

It all makes sense...kind of.

So thank you for inspiring me to look that up. That book and the more detailed Star Trek Encyclopedia were INVALUABLE when I ran the FASA game and apparently they grew out of material TNG staff needed for writing shows...

I haven't done anything like this since 1989 or so I think. I think I plan to auction this book on eBay but I may keep it now.

So it looks like STTMP could easily have occurred in Continuity. At least one of the continuities anyway.


I never liked the idea before, but I guess it works. It even works I think if you account for the Animated Series but that is another topic.

Well this was fun. Thank you Captain and thanks 60sChild for posting and bringing this thread back to my attention. This is the first time I've tried to reconcile STTMP and STII in the same continuity. I had always preferred that STTMP didn't occur but part of that was from perhaps a misunderstanding I had at the end of STTMP. I thought that at the end, V'Ger released its data and Earth was Super overloaded with info and knew everything and that was the end of everything. Starfleet was now as powerful as V'Ger and the Klingons got put in their place... and Starfleet won, and Game Over. Starfleet was now in possession of all the technology etc that V'Ger had and that is why they were forced to "ignore" it later.

I think "I perceived from false assumptions" to paraphrase someone we all know and admire.

Thanks again.

[Captain]

Your right...Trek II was bumped up to 2285. I said 2281 becouse the films used a stardate system that related to real time--8130.3 would relate to March 30 1981...which would be the real date of filming. Thats why I figured 2281...but since Trek 3 and 4 are so closely linked to 2, I guess 2285 was decided upon.

If Generations is in continuity though, I still figure Kirk didnt accept the academy gig for a year or two so I'll stick with 2279, but even 2277 is close.

When you think about it, theres still a lot of time to be explained for here. Did Spock command the ship for a while before the decision was made to put a new crew on the Enterprise, How long was Chekov first officer on the Reliant....? Lots of questions.

Its kinda fun running through all this malarkey aint it?

[cdhall]

When you think about it, theres still a lot of time to be explained for here. Did Spock command the ship for a while before the decision was made to put a new crew on the Enterprise, How long was Chekov first officer on the Reliant....? Lots of questions.

Its kinda fun running through all this malarkey aint it?

Yes, it is fun. It WAS fun for me once. But this is the first time I've gone over it. In the old days I'd go ahead and speculate on the rest of the time as you suggest.

Looking at my post it is hard for me to speculate about the gap between 2277 and 2285. I ignored STTMP and picked up my game after STIV. So I had Williard Decker in there somewhere and Ilia and I think I had Sulu promoted to Capt at the end of STIV and he took the Excelsior. I may have made Chekov his First Officer.

Oh, I have the thing right beside me, I'll look...

I had the USS Constellation well populated with former Enterprise Crew:
Capt Willard Decker
1st Off Cmdr Pavel Chekov
Weapons Officer/Chief Helm Cmdr Kevin Riley
Chief Comm Lt. Cmdr. MRess
Chief Med Lt Cmdr Christine Chapel

I had the Excelsior with
Capt Sulu
Chief Helm Lt. Ilia
Chief Med Cmdr. M'Benga

And the Enterprise-A had
Capt Commodore James T. Kirk
1st Off/Ch Sci Capt Spock
Chief Helm Lt. Saavik
Chief Eng Capt Scott
Chief Comm Cmdr Uhura
Chief Med Cmdr McCoy
I think the Ent was sort of a Legends retirement home. I promoted some of the crew away as noted. We primarily did not play the Ent crew, we had another ship we played with. Many others really. This stuff was just for my interest. I see one of my other notes lists Kirk as a Commodore/1 Star Admiral. Maybe I did that. Notes are unclear.

Anyway I didn't list any of the characters I had, I was sort of just showing you how I projected/adapted my timeline to what happened after STII. If we kept playing I would have left STIII and STIV in tact but I would not have recognized STV or STVI. Six was just a disaster for continuity. Five was just...awful...

Hmmm. We had a topic for this thread, and I don't think it was related to this.


Thanks again for the trip down memory lane.


I found my "History notes." They say:

1. STTMP never occurred
2. AFter STIV Admiral Kirk was demoted to Commodore and assigned to command the Enterprise-A as per Commodore Decker in The Doomsday Machine
3. Commander Sulu is promoted to Capt of the Excelsior
4. Commander Chekov is assigned as First Officer of the Constellation
5. Lt Saavik is reassigned to the Enterprise-A at Capt Spock's request
6. Capt Scott is reassigned to the Enterprise-A also

[Captain]

Cool ideas Doug. I used to have a similar self made time line for events after Trek 6, that closely follow this one. I had Chekov make Commodore and accept command of the Enterprise B, which was an Excelsior class vessel (this was before Generations came out and ruined everything). I figured Pavel and the "B" did something spectacular during his command term and out of respect, Starfleet retired the rank of Commodore, making Chekov the last person to wear that rank....and explaining why TNG never had the rank.

I need a life...dont I!?

[cdhall]

I figured Pavel and the "B" did something spectacular during his command term and out of respect, Starfleet retired the rank of Commodore, making Chekov the last person to wear that rank....and explaining why TNG never had the rank.

I need a life...dont I!?

Thank you. Yes, you need a life. I know, I was there myself.


As I recall, STIV had the cool set with the Wheel. But no other redeeming value.

STVI was just a mess.

Since I started after IV I had already split the timeline... I could never reconcile "Fleet Captain" from The Menagerie either. They should have kept Commodore I think. Even the Navy today should keep it. They have 2 Rear Admirals. Stupid. The Navy should fix that.

I totally understandwhy they had to reboot Trek too but the more I think about the new movie, the more I don't like it. Like First Contact. I haven't thought about it too much. I may see it again. I may go look for a website about the plot/reboot/etc.

We should start another thread if we want to get into that though.