Head ownership

[Mego Magyar]

Thought I'd ask this question and see what the feeling is in the community.

I am making a Cyclops custon and bought the head on the right from Brian L. - it wasn't exactly the look I wanted but close enough that I though I could work it into what I wanted. I reworked things, made a mold and cast and got what I was looking for,the head on the left.

My question is if someone want the head on the left that I came up with is it my to make more copies of? Let the discussion begin.

[Saroyan]

I think so, since you made clear modifications to it- but I think you should pose the question to B.L since he is the source of the original.

[Random Axe]

Head makers go through endless supplies of resin, mold rubber and time to get the heads exactly right and of course the add to the sculpts to improve the product. No matter what modifications you make to it it is still the property of the original molder/caster and is not to be recast. It's just kind of an uwritten rule that is very much frowned upon.

For example, if I wanted to make a run of my Sgt. Lincoln Osiris figures for next year's Meet I'd do one of two things. My head supplier makes a cool RDJ head that I modified with a fro and goatee. I would either pay for ten RDJ heads and sculpt on all of them or send him my sculpt and pay to have him mold and cast. I would never take it upon myself to cast the head myself because I wouldn't have had the base to work with if not for the originating artist.

[The Toyroom]

That head in question was based on a Mego Captain America, if I'm correct. You could have just as "easily" did the same thing you did to an existing Cap head and left Leitner out of the equation. Then the point would be moot...

[Mego Magyar]

I fully understand that an original sculpt is totally owned by the original sculpter. This is more a question based on what Toyroom stated, if the base sculpt is from a original Mego head.

[HumanWolfman]

Why don't you just ask Brian?

[ScottA]

How can someone who sculpts a character they don't have the rights to own said sculpt? This is always the question we argue about here. It comes up all the time.

[Random Axe]

Sure it's a fine line we draw here in this hobby, but it's well defined. Once the head is purchased you can do whatever you want with it...except recast. I don't make heads, I don't make molds or cast. I leave that to my talented partners in customland that I purchase from. It's a honor system and one I firmly believe in. You guys can do what you want, but the question was asked and my opinion, for what little it's worth, is given.

[B-Lister]

How can someone who sculpts a character they don't have the rights to own said sculpt? This is always the question we argue about here. It comes up all the time.

Because they created the art.

Granted, a copyright owner owns the character, and can issue a cease and desist, but they cannot regulate what you do with the characters on a personal level.

You own the sculpt, but technically you are not supposed to sell it without the license.

But Marvel cannot take your sculpt, then use it without YOUR permission, even if they own the character, and even if they issue a cease and desist.

[ctc]

>You own the sculpt, but technically you are not supposed to sell it without the license.

Yup; that's exactly how the character/copyright thing works. You can make as many as you want for yourself. As to who owns the rights to a non-licensed sculpt of a character.... technically NOBODY can sell them, trade them or even give them away. So legally it's moot. (That is, if you sold recasts of someone's unlicensed Batman head they couldn't sue you since you're BOTH breaking the law.) In effect NOBODY does. And yeah, it's true that while DC (for example)couldn't use your sculpt without permission they could (if they REALLY wanted to) produce something similar, take full credit and you'd be boned. (But it doesn't happen very much since there's no reason for them to bother.) However; it's considered bad form to recast/take credit for someone else's work amongst the fans and afficianadoes. As to wether or not a modification counts as a new sculpt, I think asking the originator of the base piece first would be the bestest thing to do. ('Cos if they object to your taking credit, they'll doubtless raise a fuss amongst the community which'll lead to problems for you down the line.)

Don C.

[Mego Magyar]

> As to wether or not a modification counts as a new sculpt, I think asking the originator of the base piece first would be the bestest thing to do. ('Cos if they object to your taking credit, they'll doubtless raise a fuss amongst the community which'll lead to problems for you down the line.)

Don C.

That's my point and the reason for the question. The base sculpt is a Mego Captain America that was modified and then that was taken and modified again. I know on this particular head I could "just ask Brian" as people have said but my question was more in general and I was just using this head as the example. This is all about modifing an existing head like a Mego, FF or DCU and at what point does one of those heads become a new sculpt that a person owns. You are already modify someone else's work ( someone you can go and ask ) by taking a Cap head and sanding off the wings and adding few bits, so does that make it a new sculpt that you own? If someone take that and makes modifications of there own does that become a new scupt? These are the questions that came to mind.

Also, just to add fuel to the fire, what about buying a resign cast of an unmodified head from another toy line like Famous Covers or DCU? If a person has the ability to make a Mego scale head from one of those, for example a Famous Covers Tony Stark, does the person who makes a resign copy of that head and then sells it own that head? It's an exact copy, no modification.

I buy my heads from Brain and will continue to do so, this was just something where I couldn't find exactly what I wanted. This brought some questions to my mind and I wanted to ask here to see what the community thought. I'd never think of just recasting a truly original sculpt and that's not what I'm talking about.

[Mego Magyar]

I wouldn't have gone the route of making a mold of my modification if I had something I could have sculpted right onto the head I bought, maybe I'm not using it right but sculpey doesn't stick well ( it's what I used and it came off in the mold ) and nobody sells milliput around here.

To put peoples mind at rest, I'm not looking to rip anyone off, I'm not about to become a recaster, this was a one shot thing. If I did want to copy "my" Cyclops head I'd need to make another mold ( which I have no intentions of doing ) as the cast came out rough and still needed some fine tuning before I got what was in the photo.

The only exception to recasting is that megoknight gave me permission to make a copy of the Beast head I got from him.

[nobody]

The only exception to recasting is that megoknight gave me permission to make a copy of the Beast head I got from him.

That's copies my friend..you have full blown permission to make and sell as many as you want. I wanna see some beast customs out there.

[dr_cyclops]

I completely understand why toy boost/customizers would like to maintain their exclusive trade interest in their work.
Would it be possible for a toy boost/customizer to give up his exclusive trade interest on his boosted custom work? Like a form of custom community public domain.

[ctc]

>Would it be possible for a toy boost/customizer to give up his exclusive trade interest on his boosted custom work?

Nope, 'cos they don't have any rights to it to begin with. It's a weird area; technically if you make a bootleg sculpt of an existing property your product has no existence as a legal entity. You can't claim rights to the sculpt because you don't own the character.... GENERALLY. If someone else was to use your sculpt, such as the owner of the rights to the character you made, you MIGHT be able to make a case against them.... but even if you win you have zero rights to do anything with the sculpt afterwards.

This is why the bigger companies will send a C&D. It lets you know THEY know what you're doing, and lets you stop without any ramifications. Saves them a lot of headache too. Everyone wins.... or at least doesn't lose.

>Like a form of custom community public domain.

Hmmmm.... that's a different kettle of fish. If you made an original sculpt, you could declare it free for others to use.... or free with caveats. (3rd edit D&D did something like this.) But you'd have to hold the rights first. I can't declare my Batman head public domain 'cos I don't have the rights to the character. But I COULD declare my T2 hand sculpt public domain. You can't copyright a hand, but I WOULD have rights to my particular sculpt of one.

>If someone take that and makes modifications of there own does that become a new scupt?

THAT'S not always an easy one to answer, and the subject of a lot of infringement cases. In a case like this, better safe than sorry.

>The only exception to recasting is that megoknight gave me permission to make a copy of the Beast head I got from him.

Us customizers are rapscallions; always skirting the edge.... This sort of thing is a courtesy more than a legality; since neither of you have the rights to the character. It's goodwill amongst the community. Marvel COULD bring charges up; but it's MUCH more likely.... if they noticed.... that they'd send a C&D and hope that was it. We don't move significant volume, and they can really only hope to recoup demonstrable damages.... which would be negligible for a figure in a format that they don't produce.

Don C.