Is the steam running out of the 66 Batman train already?

[ODBJBG]

You can't really gauge anything based on the Mattel line. Once Mattel said they only intended to essentially do one wave (and the little half wave with Catwoman and the variants) most collectors dropped the line like a bad habit. Unfortunately for Mattel, they actually announced this BEFORE any of the figures ever even hit the shelves. Essentially killing the line before it ever started. Then to make matters worse, bad QC on a lot of the early figures was enough for most people to just stay away entirely.

Granted this only applies to the Mattel stuff, but as far as I know, it's the only 66 "dud" as it were... And that entirely falls on Mattel's handling of the line.

[The Toyroom]

I saw an Eli Wallach Mr Freeze pictured somewhere so I'm sure the line is continuing.

[Joshua the Atomic Robot]

Umm, are we sure sales on these figures are slowing? I was under the impression that the sales on them were better than Mattel expected. It sounded to me like they weren't planning on continuing the line, and then the stronger-than-expected sales made them change their mind, and now they're scrambling behind the scenes to come up with a new wave of figures. Admittedly, I'm doing a lot of "reading between the lines" of their statements, so I could be wrong.

If the steam is running out, it's probably just because they haven't announced any of the next wave of figures aside from Surf's Up Joker. If they announce some cool new characters like Batgirl or Egghead, I think the excitement level will rise back up.

[Earth 2 Chris]

^Yep, and the TV series was one of the first that was successfully syndicated. Dozier is seen as a pioneer for this. It's one reason why he wasn't too torn up when the show was cancelled...he would continue to roll in the dough due to his forward thinking. We all know NBC offered to pick up the show, but the sets were already destroyed. One reason why they didn't bother with rebuilding was due to the syndication making them pure profit from then on.

Unfortunately, he didn't think about home exhibition beyond syndication...

Chris

[mego73]

Movies back then did have agreements for home and organization exhibition. except back then it was for super 8 movies and 16mm film rentals. I assume Batman 66 was able to be put out due to those considerations.

Dozier also produced the movie under the same deal, so it wouldn't matter what the exhibition platform was as home video didn't exist back then for movies, either.

Historically, the syndication market didn't exist until '72, hence the Trek and Gilligan's Island royalty lawsuits. So for those rights to be considered back in '66, ABC would have to be in on the deal since they originally paid Fox to produce it as the deal was between NPP and ABC. Fox then contracted out to Greenway.

So what we're looking at is something closer to the Desilu situation where WB thinks Fox should buyout Greenway since they contracted to them, but Fox since WB should since they own Batman. And ABC must be getting a piece of the syndication since it was their deal.

This is nearly identical to the cluster behind the Marvel '67 and HB FF cartoons. The MSH rights were split between Disney and Fox Home video for years and didn't get somewhat cleared up until the Marvel merger. Even then, we've never seen a stateside DVD or legit streaming release, even though it looks as if Disney bought Grantray since they released the Spidey '67 boxset.

The FF HB 'toons are mired in rights hell, where WB can show them on Boomerang since they own the production company but home video or streaming is out because Marvel wants fifty percent with a buyback option.

When you have a movie - FF, Avengers, Batman, Superman - and a tie-in ancillary never makes it to home video tells you how many people must own a piece to make it not worthwhile.

[hedrap]

Dozier also produced the movie under the same deal, so it wouldn't matter what the exhibition platform was as home video didn't exist back then for movies, either.

Historically, the syndication market didn't exist until '72, hence the Trek and Gilligan's Island royalty lawsuits. So for those rights to be considered back in '66, ABC would have to be in on the deal since they originally paid Fox to produce it as the deal was between NPP and ABC. Fox then contracted out to Greenway.

So what we're looking at is something closer to the Desilu situation where WB thinks Fox should buyout Greenway since they contracted to them, but Fox since WB should since they own Batman. And ABC must be getting a piece of the syndication since it was their deal.

This is nearly identical to the cluster behind the Marvel '67 and HB FF cartoons. The MSH rights were split between Disney and Fox Home video for years and didn't get somewhat cleared up until the Marvel merger. Even then, we've never seen a stateside DVD or legit streaming release, even though it looks as if Disney bought Grantray since they released the Spidey '67 boxset.

The FF HB 'toons are mired in rights hell, where WB can show them on Boomerang since they own the production company but home video or streaming is out because Marvel wants fifty percent with a buyback option.

When you have a movie - FF, Avengers, Batman, Superman - and a tie-in ancillary never makes it to home video tells you how many people must own a piece to make it not worthwhile.

[enyawd72]

I do not now, nor will I ever support streaming video. You are totally at the mercy of those supplying the content. THEY decide which shows/movies to make available, and can yank stuff at any time whenever they please. I want to own a physical copy I can watch whenever I want, not when someone else says it's okay.

[MIB41]

My gut says the toys and merch was a test run to gauge interest for a box set. If it was weak, then they'll settle for the synidcation dollars and eventually dump it onto streaming. The only might be which library carries the license.

That's an interesting hypothetical, but I'm not sure everyone who would venture out to buy a DVD box set would also be a toy collector. I think having the show run nationally every Saturday night on ME-TV would factor more into gauging interest than the merchandise which is primarily aimed at the smaller collector market. I'm sure they're interested to know how Batman is stacking up in the ratings during a night when Lost in Space and Star Trek follow (both of which are already available on DVD). But what I DO think is abundantly clear is that target audience is shrinking every year they wait. While a crystal clean image of the '66 classic would be preferred, diehard fans have lived with fairly descent copies of the complete series for decades now. And every so often you see even better transfers out there. So Batman '66 does not have the advantage of feeding an appetite that was much more abundant back in the 90's versus today. The DVD market is smaller and the black market availability of the show from quality transfers has lessoned that interest as well.

[jds1911a1]

I for one have shoed away form the Mattel line becuse I want to buy the megolike line from Figures and with limited funds I chose the toys I already preferred

[Earth 2 Chris]

^What Anthony said. The syndication rights were thought of back in 66, but the home video rights were not. DC/National was purchased by Kinney International shortly thereafter, which in turned purchased Warners, which eventually snowballed into today's Time/Warner. Meanwhile you have 20th Century Fox and Dozier/Greenway's heirs. Had DC remained part of a relatively small publishing and distribution company, it may have made it out years ago. It's all a matter of no one knowing how to divide the pie.

Chris

[The Toyroom]

It's not an issue between Fox/WB/ABC. If it was it wouldn't be on the air, ever, but the syndie rights have moved around for decades. Also, you have to account for the movie. It's been released on disc and streaming. If it was a rights issue, that would be buried also.

I was always told the '66 movie came under a different set of rights because it was a theatrical release, whereas when the TV show was originally produced they never conceived that there would be a DVD after-market

[hedrap]

It's not an issue between Fox/WB/ABC. If it was it wouldn't be on the air, ever, but the syndie rights have moved around for decades. Also, you have to account for the movie. It's been released on disc and streaming. If it was a rights issue, that would be buried also.

I think the problems is disc sales are nowhere near as lucrative as they were pre-2007, so to first split it three ways between the principles, then include Greenway/Dozer, might not be worth it.

Then maybe you have the estate clearances and music royalties issues. I don't think the estates have an argument to make as long as they guests are not used in promotions and advertising. Music royalties can be a headache, but nothing major.

My gut says the toys and merch was a test run to gauge interest for a box set. If it was weak, then they'll settle for the synidcation dollars and eventually dump it onto streaming. The only might be which library carries the license.

[palitoy]

I do think the dew is off the lily a little. The perfect time for this license would have been the mid nineties.

[ctc]

Hmmmm....

It's possible things are dying down. Without the disks the only folks interested would be the oldster fans. The execs might be nervous about the whole thing 'cos the BANG! POW! Batman goes against the Dark Knight/Smallville/Arrow aesthetic Superheroes are currently functioning under.

Don C.

[MIB41]

I
Too bad DC didn't retain rights to this like they did The Adventures of Superman. If so, we'd have had a box set 10 years ago.
Chris

This be a true fact. You would think with the merchandising venture not blazing any new sales records, all sides involved would soften their position and get this DVD boxset out.