Doctor who in the 80's the JNT era

[jds1911a1]

Yeah, I remember the lack of sound FX made it worse but I wasn't liking the story to begin with, it's lower than Kinda for me. I didn't like any Dalek stories after Genesis, save for "Remembrance"

I think that's becuase almost all the dalek stories since are all SO dependant on Davros (and are basically adaptations on Nation's Destiny of the Daleks plotline which wasn't great to begin with). While the character was a brilliant concept (especially as acted my Michael Wisher in Genesis) it gets old really fast that the daleks have to revive him every time they get in a jam (and promptly turn on him again)

How I wish we could have Dalek stories without him again

[jds1911a1]

Hmmmm....

I felt the later Tom Baker and the Davison runs tried way too hard. They wanted to make a "good" show; but tried doing so by appropriating a lot of technique from other styles of show. Bad because the Doctor always exitsted in it's own universe, and had it's own set of rules. (So.... nobody flinched whan the Doc made a TARDIS detector from two forks and a potato. That's just what he does....)

Davison struck me as an attempt to make a "serious" Doctor. And a lot of his run seems forced. Having watched it recently, they had tons of great ideas but handled them poorly. Subplots ran on and on (JUST KILL TURLOUGH ALREADY!!!!) archetypes were too "central casting" and had no life of their own, (JUST KILL ADRIC ALREADY!) and a lot of scenes degenerated into flat, expository dialogue.

Don C.

Those are all the fingerprints of Jon Nathan-Turner (and if you notice when he a producton manager 75-78 credits it's John Nathan Turner so Jon was a bit pretentious when he bacame the big cheese)
The Leisure hive dvd has an interview with him and a period one. in both instances he goes out of his way to criticize the prior producers for cutting corners becuse with Who no one complained and for putting too many jokes in.
In the end his era is so blatently marked by a balze production of it's poor but good enough scripts and production when the advances of technology availalable should have made it a better show.

[ctc]

Hmmmm....

I felt the later Tom Baker and the Davison runs tried way too hard. They wanted to make a "good" show; but tried doing so by appropriating a lot of technique from other styles of show. Bad because the Doctor always exitsted in it's own universe, and had it's own set of rules. (So.... nobody flinched whan the Doc made a TARDIS detector from two forks and a potato. That's just what he does....)

Davison struck me as an attempt to make a "serious" Doctor. And a lot of his run seems forced. Having watched it recently, they had tons of great ideas but handled them poorly. Subplots ran on and on (JUST KILL TURLOUGH ALREADY!!!!) archetypes were too "central casting" and had no life of their own, (JUST KILL ADRIC ALREADY!) and a lot of scenes degenerated into flat, expository dialogue.

Don C.

[Mikey]

I didn't like any Dalek stories after Genesis, save for "Remembrance"

I totally agree

[palitoy]

Adric's death killed the dinosaurs, it's fixed in time.

(trying to unjumble cyber or Dalek history can give you a migrane)

That's why i forgive the little things the new series does, the original series continuity makes no sense at times.

Kinda is really bad and it gets a sequel with snakedance (there's a futre dvd release combo for you)

I didn't hate Snakedance, I just wondered why the Mara needed a sequel.

can't say what version you saw up north back then but when my PBS first got Resurection it was missing sound effects (I know assume this was a mistake from the bbc in sending a WIP '71 edit out instead of the final show) but it became a rally cry for all that was wrong with who at the time amongst my whomanoid chums]

Yeah, I remember the lack of sound FX made it worse but I wasn't liking the story to begin with, it's lower than Kinda for me. I didn't like any Dalek stories after Genesis, save for "Remembrance"

[jds1911a1]

Adric wasn't the first time the Dr had a companion die (although it was an uncommmon occurance Katrina, Brett Vyon and Sara Kindgom in Dalek Master plan are all I can think of) His not returning was aligned with the accepted convention of "only a act of the time lords in extreme cases can allow the Dr to go back into his own timeline of events (whenever they occur chronologocally)". I don't enough of the books or audios to know if they have used paradoxes where the events of the later incarnation affect the earlier ones visit to some world other than the Genesis of the Daleks which I guess technically all later encounters with the daleks and their fear/harted are colored by a encounters earlier in the series which are chronologincally later (trying to unjumble cyber or Dalek history can give you a migrane)

actually the martyr death is better than the send off they gave some companions
Susan - forcibly left behind
Sarah - bums rush out the door
Peri - well they never did send her away properly she was just gone part way through trial
Steven - forcibly left behind at the end of the savages becuase the producer just didn't like Peter purves

[Mikey]

I for one was very happy the first time I saw ep 4 of eathshock that he was gone

I never understood why the Doctor didn't go back and save Adric ...
Yes, people didn't like Adric and it was a way of getting rid of his character, but looking at it from the story's point of view the Doctor not rescuing him made Dr Who look kind of ... callous ?

There's no way Adric's death could be one of the few instances where he must die to preserve time (like Waters of Mars).

The Doctor seems to have the idea that Adric would have wanted it like this... Are you sure, Doctor ?
We're talking about the same kid who wants to go home every second episode and then changes his mind a by the time the episode ends.

If a very young man was standing on the edge of a tall building ready to jump, would you not try and talk him out of it because you felt -- he wants it like this ?

I always thought Adric's death was handled very poorly.
Appeasing the fans by killing him is one thing, but at least give it some serious thought on how to handle it.

IMO, Adric's death marks about the point when the JNT "Davison era" jumped the shark and started moving into the Colin anything-goes era.

[jds1911a1]

I still can't understand why Caves of Androzani is so beloved by many fans ... To me it seems like a throw together story thats extremely slow moving ... Evil dude with face mask has the hots for Peri ... The Doctor gives up his life to save her ... and one and one half hours of cave creeping around in between.

Earthshock was ok, but even that was paced very bad ...
Part-1 of Earthshock was almost impossible to watch without falling asleep.

I did like the Visitation, but I think if it was condenced into a 2 part story it would have been much better.

After getting used to the current Eccleston/Tennant style of stories (mostly 1 hour stories) when I watch many classic stories I can't help but see how badly they were padded - almost to tedium.

Compared to the New Series, JNT's saving grace was having some companions not from Earth and not from current Earth ..
JNT had ... Romana (in his first season), Adric, Nyssa, and Companion.
RTD had nobody ... unless you want to count Jack.

True when you watch the 4 parter straight it feels padded but if you wathc a mutiparrt modern one in one sitting (Say daleks in manhattan or the series 4 finale 2 parter) it feels just as padded (Like it was supposed to be a 90 minute special but they had to make it 2 hrs since it was in season)

[jds1911a1]

BBC kids have been rerunning the Davison years and I've been recording them. I am pretty sure they don't run "Earthshock" because I've never caught it or the Daleks story (which I recall as being awful).

It's very hit or miss, I really like things like "The Visitation" and "Caves of Androzani" but I'm sorry, "Kinda" still has me napping. Every season of Doctor Who has some clinkers, even today but I didn't find as many high points during these years.

I've ruined the series for my wife, she never noticed the celery, now she can't not look at it. That explaination of why he wears it is really angering.

Kinda is really bad and it gets a sequel with snakedance (there's a futre dvd release combo for you)

Since earthshock and resuraction of the daleks are on dvd it is possible they won't air them.

I can't say what version you saw up north back then but when my PBS first got Resurection it was missing sound effects (I know assume this was a mistake from the bbc in sending a WIP '71 edit out instead of the final show) but it became a rally cry for all that was wrong with who at the time amongst my whomanoid chums

[jds1911a1]

Yeah, Tegan really comes across as a jerk in reflection and you're right about Adric/Nyssa they kind of countered each other out a little. No contest as to who was the more appealing, if my wife sees Adric she makes this "ech" noise.

I for one was very happy the first time I saw ep 4 of eathshock that he was gone

[palitoy]

Yeah, Tegan really comes across as a jerk in reflection and you're right about Adric/Nyssa they kind of countered each other out a little. No contest as to who was the more appealing, if my wife sees Adric she makes this "ech" noise.

[Mikey]

I would have liked the Davison multicompanion era a lot better if JNT got better characters.

We had Nyssa and Adric both as the "smart one" and also both as the "child"

Tegan, I still haven't figured out why the Doctor wanted her as a companion ... She was always in a bad mood and acted like she didn't want to be there...

Turlough forget it ...
Why would the Doctor want Turlough as a companion ?
It doesn't make sense.

A lot of people put Peri down as the companion with the boobs ... but I think she was the best companion of all (of the Davison era).

[palitoy]

I still can't understand why Caves of Androzani is so beloved by many fans ... To me it seems like a throw together story thats extremely slow moving ... Evil dude with face mask has the hots for Peri ... The Doctor gives up his life to save her ... and one and one half hours of cave creeping around in between.

I think I like it because it's closer to a classic Who story than we usually saw during the Davison years. The monster in that piece is straight out of Irwin Allen though..

Compared to the New Series, JNT's saving grace was having some companions not from Earth and not from current Earth ..
JNT had ... Romana (in his first season), Adric, Nyssa, and Companion.
RTD had nobody ... unless you want to count Jack.

While I do think that was a good idea, I was never fond of the posse he amassed in the Tardis. It's like JNT wanted to surround Davison with people like they did in the Hartnell years, that group dynamic didn't gel for me.

[Mikey]

I still can't understand why Caves of Androzani is so beloved by many fans ... To me it seems like a throw together story thats extremely slow moving ... Evil dude with face mask has the hots for Peri ... The Doctor gives up his life to save her ... and one and one half hours of cave creeping around in between.

Earthshock was ok, but even that was paced very bad ...
Part-1 of Earthshock was almost impossible to watch without falling asleep.

I did like the Visitation, but I think if it was condenced into a 2 part story it would have been much better.

After getting used to the current Eccleston/Tennant style of stories (mostly 1 hour stories) when I watch many classic stories I can't help but see how badly they were padded - almost to tedium.

Compared to the New Series, JNT's saving grace was having some companions not from Earth and not from current Earth ..
JNT had ... Romana (in his first season), Adric, Nyssa, and Companion.
RTD had nobody ... unless you want to count Jack.

[palitoy]

BBC kids have been rerunning the Davison years and I've been recording them. I am pretty sure they don't run "Earthshock" because I've never caught it or the Daleks story (which I recall as being awful).

It's very hit or miss, I really like things like "The Visitation" and "Caves of Androzani" but I'm sorry, "Kinda" still has me napping. Every season of Doctor Who has some clinkers, even today but I didn't find as many high points during these years.

I've ruined the series for my wife, she never noticed the celery, now she can't not look at it. That explaination of why he wears it is really angering.