Columbus Day, Redskins controversy and historical accuracy

[Brazoo]

There are probably a lot of Natives who don't care - so what? There are clearly a lot of Natives who are offended. Anyway, there's a long history of sports team name changs:

The Yankees, The Jets, The Wizards, the Astros...who even cares about these name changes now?

I'm reading that the Redskins didn't even start with that name. They were once The Braves, but changed their name in 1933 to avoid confusion with the baseball team. It's not exactly like they're talking about changing a sacred historical document, it's a dumb and offensive sports team name. Big deal.

[kingdom warrior]

Simply Put, this is an issue with American Indians and the Redskins. If they have a need to sit down and talk about it; EVERYONE else has no business talking about the name but them. Last I checked The Washington Redskins are a Privately run team. Politicians need to mind their business,Redskins have been around a long time. Politicians need to WORK with American Indian leaders to help them, find a solution to help them solve their issues. and better their communities.......I think this country has some REAL URGENT issues that Politicians need to solve in the next few days. than worrying about a teams name............

[megojim]

I think when you look at team names, you also need to look at the logos. I think that truly underscores whether the image is being thoughtful (or careless). I see allot of pride in the Redskin logo. I think it's an image of strength and courage. I like the slang use of the term Redskin because it denotes a degree of grit and toughness that compliments the logo.




When I look at the Indians, I clearly see a dated depiction that carries a derogatory image. If there is any professional franchise that should get a facelift, it's the Cleveland Indians.

Awesome insight bro!

[Mikey]

You guys do have to admit, if there was a team called the blackskins and had a black man as a logo this would be a non issue -meaning everyone would agree it would be inappropriate.

Same with yellowskins and an Asian man logo.

The only reason it's not as big a deal for American Indians is they're not as organized - yet imo

[MIB41]

I think when you look at team names, you also need to look at the logos. I think that truly underscores whether the image is being thoughtful (or careless). I see allot of pride in the Redskin logo. I think it's an image of strength and courage. I like the slang use of the term Redskin because it denotes a degree of grit and toughness that compliments the logo.



When I look at the Indians, I clearly see a dated depiction that carries a derogatory image. If there is any professional franchise that should get a facelift, it's the Cleveland Indians.

[Wise4671]

My Great Grandma was a full blooded Cherokee Indian and when I was younger growing up in Cleveland I asked her about Chief Wahoo she smiled and said that didn't bother her but the Government lying, stealing and ruining the land upseted her.

[alex]

Seriously Guys, I just think someone has too much time on thier hands, and the world has TRULY gone PC crazy. I cant imagine what next will be looked into.

[Brazoo]

In Canada I was never taught about Columbus in a way that made him hero, so it seems a bit odd when I hear people think about him that way. I think it's fair to admire his accomplishments without making him a cartoon hero. He was an opportunist who did a lot of lousy things. Of course we are looking at him today with different values, so it's probably a bit unfair to make him a cartoon villain too.

Personally, having looked at both sides I don't buy the "people of god" thing. It's not like he could take snapshots of the Natives back with him, so it makes sense to me that he used the term Indian to describe the people he saw as a term that would be easily understood. Plus, I think if history shows us anything he was career minded about his voyages, and as far as I know he always thought he was close to finding a new trade route to Asia. So it makes sense to me that he was telling people back home that the people he found were the same race as the people of India. It helps with his whole sales pitch, no?

I think the term "Redskin" and things like the Cleveland Indians mascot are gross and make the fans of those teams look like fools. To be fair I'm not a sports fan and don't care anything about preserving sports history or anything like that. Still, the excuses all seem weak. It seems to me that sports team names have changed for lots of other reasons and people get over it pretty quickly.

[Mikey]

One word --- empathy

[megomania]

Ah yes. The owner of the Redskins franchise and name should be forced to change it because the smallest of the small % of politically correct, media hounds want it that way. This wasn't an issue forty years ago, why is it an issue now?

-Chris

[Zemo]

lol "apologists "

[Access]

For anyone who cares to read this explanation as well as the actual letter Columbo sent home:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1966/does-indian-derive-from-columbuss-description-of-native-americans-as-una-gente-in-dios

[Access]

I hate that some people don't ever experience being discriminated at some point in their lives by something they cannot control. Being called a "******" if you have a learning disability, Or any number of racial slurs because of the shade of your skin, etc.

This is sports, it is supposed to be a fun distraction from issues that plague society, not contribute further to them! There have been, and will continue to be, countless arguments on both sides about this, the apologists with their rationalizations and historical revisionism, and those who feel that future generations need no excuses to continue perpetuating racism or prejudice based on things beyond your control.

[torgospizza]

It feels darn good to live in such a cushy society guys like Bob Costas can make big deals about stuff while making bigger money while the people actually effected by it are too busy living on a reservation dealing with more pressing concerns, like poverty, high crime rates, terrible health care, and homelessness. Native Americans are 177% more like to die from diabetes and 500% more likely to die from TB than whites, but they must find some solace in the fact someone is irked on their behalf that a football team's using an anachronistic mascot.

[Zemo]

If an Indian walked into a bar, and a person of another race said, "What's up Chief" is that racist?