Blueray-HD war over

[MegoSteve]

Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD
On a related note, my launch 360 finally went RROD on me a couple of days ago. Yeah, it really sucks. To be fair though it outlasted my launch PS1 and PS2 and unlike Sony, Microsoft is going to fix it. While I’m waiting for MS to send me the coffin box to ship back to them, I went ahead an upgraded to the Elite 360. That way I’m getting the new RROD free motherboard, plus HDMI and the 120 GB hard drive. When I get the repaired one back from MS I’m going to either give it to my sister or trade it in.

Sorry to hear about that!

How's your experience been with the Elite vs. the Premium? Is it quieter? I already bought a larger hard drive because I love demos, but I'd be tempted by the Elite if I could get a quieter machine with HDMI.

[MegoSteve]

Developers aren't going to make games for a system that's not selling and consumers are starting to lose faith in Microsoft's ability to make a quality product, it's just that simple.

Yeah, which is why NPD consistently shows the 360 outselling the PS3 by a two to one margin for the past twelve months. (According to NPD, the 360 sold 4.5 million from Dec. 06 through Nov. 07, and the PS3 sold 2.25 million.) The red ring of death has had a negligible effect on sales, unless you're arguing that the 360 should be outselling the PS3 by three or four to one. It's just a ridiculous argument to make... the PS3 couldn't even outsell the 360 the month they announced their $100 price cut! If anything, they lost ground, because the 360 was back to outselling the PS3 by two times in August when MS cut the price, then in September the 360 outsold the PS3 by a factor of four to one.

I would be willing to bet that when NPD announces the numbers for December 2007, the 360 will have outsold the PS3 by two times at least.

I don't want to be rude, but you just couldn't be more wrong. I'd love to hear about developers that aren't creating games for the 360 anymore because of low sales of the 360. There are absolutely no facts to back up that argument. Not one.

Honestly, if you think somehow the 360's sales are going to suddenly plummet and developers are going to abandon them now because of the RRoD issue, I'll have some of what you are smoking, please. If they haven't by now, they just won't. The 360 just had the highest sales volume year in video game history!

I'm not a PS3 basher by any stretch, but one need only walk into any store that sells consoles to see which ones are selling and which ones aren't. The PS3 is the only console that was easily available this season. All but the Arcade version of the 360 were hard to find this Christmas, as was the Wii. It's only in the past week or so that I'm seeing any kind of restocking on 360s, but I'm still tripping over stacks of unsold PS3s that were there before Christmas. You practically see tumbleweeds in the PS3 aisle...

Were it not for the Blu-Ray playing capability, I'd say that the PS3 would be totally dead in the water within two years if not sooner. The only reason to buy one at this point, aside from one or two appealing games and maybe two or three good-looking future games, is because it plays Blu-Ray disks, and Blu-Ray standalone players cost about the same as a PS3, so why not buy one? The problem with that is, if the price of Blu-Ray standalone players goes down substantially, the PS3 becomes a less appealing buy to non-gamers, which puts them back in jeopardy.

Frankly, I'm hoping WB's decision to go Blu-Ray exclusive comes to bite them in the rear end... they made the decision to try to force people into one high definition format now because high definition players are seeing nowhere near the mainstream adoption DVD did. I'm guessing the studios aren't too happy about that. Problem is that most people still have SD TVs, and DVDs are about as good as it gets on those. Also, Blu-Ray players are still too expensive for anyone but tech geeks to buy them, so now instead of two formats no one is buying, we'll have one format no one is buying for the foreseeable future, until economies of scale kick in and prices come down. And with no competition and incredible arrogance on the part of Sony management, I just don't see pricing on Blu-Ray coming down that quickly.

[Werewolf]

Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD

I think Blu-Ray is definitely going to beat HD-DVD. But I’d be surprised if it ever beats DVD and this is coming from a person that has both a Blu-Ray player and a PS3.

Unlike the switch from VHS to DVD, there just isn’t enough difference in quality or convenience for the average consumer to want to bother to switch over. Especially considering how cheap you can get an up scaling DVD player and you also don’t have to re-buy your entire movie library. Unless you have an uber-expensive HDTV the difference between an up scaled DVD and a Blu-Ray disc is honestly fairly negligible.

XBOX 360 vs PS3

I disagree that the PS3 doesn’t have many good games. This was true for quite some time but not anymore.

No way are developers going to abandon the 360. It’s easier and cheaper to develop for than the PS3 and sells more software than the PS3 and Wii combined. Consumers have not abandoned it either. The extended warranty looks to have quelled any reservations people had about getting one and the new falcon chip ones don’t suffer the RROD problems.

The PS3 had a slow start with too high of a price and too few AAA games and the 360 had its infamous RROD problems to contend with. All these issues seem to be behind them now and neither system is going any where in my opinion.

On a related note, my launch 360 finally went RROD on me a couple of days ago. Yeah, it really sucks. To be fair though it outlasted my launch PS1 and PS2 and unlike Sony, Microsoft is going to fix it. While I’m waiting for MS to send me the coffin box to ship back to them, I went ahead an upgraded to the Elite 360. That way I’m getting the new RROD free motherboard, plus HDMI and the 120 GB hard drive. When I get the repaired one back from MS I’m going to either give it to my sister or trade it in.

[cjefferys]

This time around it seems apparent that Sony had to make a sacrifice and had to lose this generation's console war in order to win the high def format war via the PS3 (which they seemed to have done). I'm sure they would have loved to win both, but time and budget constraints would have made that impossible. Time will tell if their gamble paid off.

[The Bat]

On the contrary, I have been following it closely which is why I'm aware of the freakishly high failure rate of the Xbox 360, and that many people are finally getting tired of it. Developers aren't going to make games for a system that's not selling and consumers are starting to lose faith in Microsoft's ability to make a quality product, it's just that simple. Sony definitely made some mistakes which cost them big time in the beginning but it seems like Microsoft's inability to produce a reliable console is definitely making the PS3 more and more appealing.

As for games, try Uncharted: Drake's Fortune by Naughty Dog, Inc. The game looks incredible and is supposedly only using around 30% of the PS3's full processing power.

Dude...It's all about Xbox Live! Xbox is NOT going away...Do You know how many Members They have? As far as Games...I'm 99% into 1st Person shooters...and Halo will always be Xbox exclusive! Sony has been promising Killzone(and lied about the Trailer being actual Game play) since the 360 came out...where's is it? Having trouble are They?


And not selling? Not true...They sold a TON of them this Holiday season!

[cjefferys]

Not true. Motion picture film is actually very grainy.

Sure, motion picture film is grainy, grain is intrinsic to the format (and with high def formats like Blu-ray, the actual film grain is more noticable than it would be on DVD). But the theoretic resolution of 35mm film for example is much higher than that of Blu-ray or HD DVD. Those two formats usually feature 1080p transfers (1920x1080 pixels), which is considered the uppermost limit in current high definition televisions. (and even broadcast HD television signals are only 720p or 1080i). But when motion pictures are professionally transferred digitally, they are done so at either 2K (2048x1536 pixels) or 4K (4096x3072 pixels), a much higher resolution than Blu-ray or HD DVD. This is also the resolution that films are shown at in digital movie theatres. Even 4K is considered close, but still somewhat lower than the actual resolution of film. Of course it's theoretical, as actual film does not contain pixels, but these are based on professional estimates. So current 1080p Blu-ray discs could technically be improved upon resolution wise, but unless one has a front projector at home projecting on a very large screen, the increased resolution would not be noticable on the average HDTV in the home (but 2K and 4K are used in movie theatres using digital projectors).

[ZICA]

I don't think You've been following it closely...Xbox is kicking PS3's Butt!! There was even talk of Them(Sony)abandoning the System if sales don't improve within a year.Also...a lot of the problem is the Software is so difficult to write for...that a lot of 2nd, and 3rd Party Developers can't afford to do it(it takes 3 times the of Man hours to make write for PS3)...so it's just easier to make Xbox Games. Infinity Ward who made "Call of Duty 4" for both Consoles...said it can't be done(They did it)but that it's EXTREMELY difficult...and they don't think a lot of Developers will spend the time and MONEY. Infinity Ward can afford to do it, because They are owned by ACTIVISION.

So...There's one BIG reason, PS3 doesn't have many Games.

On the contrary, I have been following it closely which is why I'm aware of the freakishly high failure rate of the Xbox 360, and that many people are finally getting tired of it. Developers aren't going to make games for a system that's not selling and consumers are starting to lose faith in Microsoft's ability to make a quality product, it's just that simple. Sony definitely made some mistakes which cost them big time in the beginning but it seems like Microsoft's inability to produce a reliable console is definitely making the PS3 more and more appealing.

As for games, try Uncharted: Drake's Fortune by Naughty Dog, Inc. The game looks incredible and is supposedly only using around 30% of the PS3's full processing power.

[The Bat]

P.S. I'm not an "an-ti" Playstation Guy. In fact...if They ever come up with a really great Game I want(and Blu-Ray wins the War)...I'll probably buy one.

[The Bat]

Regardless of the warranty options the Xbox 360 failure rate is way beyond acceptable and no consumer should have to deal with the constant hassle of having to return the system. Also, the problem has not been fixed with the newer models that have the Falcon chips so that's even more reason to be skeptical about buying the system.

I've got both consoles and there's no doubt that the Xbox 360 has a much better library of games but the technical problems that plague the system are going to kill it with consumers. Nintendo is already pretty much king of the hill again with the Wii so if Microsoft can't get their act together before developers start tapping into the full potential of the PS3, I seriously doubt their deep pockets will be able to save them.

I don't think You've been following it closely...Xbox is kicking PS3's Butt!! There was even talk of Them(Sony)abandoning the System if sales don't improve within a year.Also...a lot of the problem is the Software is so difficult to write for...that a lot of 2nd, and 3rd Party Developers can't afford to do it(it takes 3 times the of Man hours to make write for PS3)...so it's just easier to make Xbox Games. Infinity Ward who made "Call of Duty 4" for both Consoles...said it can't be done(They did it)but that it's EXTREMELY difficult...and they don't think a lot of Developers will spend the time and MONEY. Infinity Ward can afford to do it, because They are owned by ACTIVISION.

So...There's one BIG reason, PS3 doesn't have many Games.

[MegoSteve]

Yeah, it's just a cheesy demonstration meant as an illustration, but they obviously cannot show you true HD on your standard definition TV.

Believe me, once you see an HD picture, you will definitely see the difference if you go back to plain old CRT (or even SD on an HD TV).

[grayhank]

I think HD is really a case of "pay no attention to that man behind the curtain" or I truly just don't get it.

When I see a commercial for HD they always say look how clear HD looks, then they show you the same picture on a TV without HD and it's kinda blurry.

Um, yeah, okay....but I don't have a high definition TV so how come I can see the first example so clearly on my TV? And my TV doesn't look all blurry like they are showing the TVs without HD. The only real way to tell how something looks in HD is to go to Best Buy and see the difference but then I'm playing right into their hands!

[cjefferys]

..if the movie wasn't originallly mastered in HD...guess what, it aint HD and never will be. It's like trying to make a movie Widescreen when it wasn't shot that way. I just don't get it...it's just another way to re-sell you the same movies that you already have. I still have my LD Player and I haven't replaced any of the movies I already have on LD. And guess what...LD is better than DVD's. It's all about the compression.

Little bit of a post script...the original versions of Star Wars that are now available on dvd are taken right off of the LD Masters. Don't believe the hype about Blue Ray HD.

But the resolution of film itself is far greater than any type of resolution a HD television could currently show. So any film could have a HD master made that would look better than any existing DVD. The only things that couldn't be improved would be any movie shot using standard def video (eg. 28 DAYS LATER) or old television shows shot on video. As long as something is shot on film, an improved home video transfer is always possible.


And I'm a LD fan too, but I'm sorry, watching non-anamorphic laserdiscs (which almost all were) on a widescreen HDTV is usually not a great experience. Anamorphic DVD transfers, and HD transfers will look far better on such a TV. (and this includes the original versions of the Star Wars trilogy on DVD, which are non anamorphic and frankly look terrible on a HDTV).

[cjefferys]

One thing you don't think of both the blu-ray players and the hd-dvd players need to be hooked up to the internet to update there sofware. PS3 even more so. Acouple of times I've put a movie in and the PS3 messages you that you can't do every thing on the disc untill you update the system.
My PS3 is the discontinues 20gig and it is a unit from Japan. So if they do reginal coding in the future I may have a problem. At one point the player wasn't working well and noticed it keep going to the hard drive, turnes out I needed to re-format the drive it was full.

Some Blu-ray discs already have region coding, but Japan is now the same region as North America ("A"), so as long as you are primarily interested in US films, you should be fine regardless.

It's true that updates are much easier to do via internet, but it is possible to download updates on your computer, burn to a disc, then install into the player that way (or also use a USB flash drive in the PS3s case). Still, I'm not sure that some people will be able to handle stuff like this (the type of person who's VCR always flashed 12 o'clock for instance ) At any rate, the PS3 has had tons of firmware updates since it's release, and more will be on the way, so updating is very important (I'm waiting for DTS HD Master Audio decoding ability, and an upgrade to Blu-ray profile 2.0)


If you are worried about the hard drive space on your PS3, you could always swap out the hard drive for a larger capacity notebook drive, or add an external hard drive (I'm thinking of doing this soon)

[MegoSteve]

I'm still running the 360 that I bought in March of 2006, so I'm of the thought that the reliability issues, while a problem, are overstated. Granted I"m not playing my system 10 hours a day like some of these folks... but to me, that's like taking a car out and drag racing and then complaining that the engine wore out.

I was really disappointed with the WB Blu-Ray announcement, because the PS3 is all but dead thanks to Sony's arrogance. Sony is so far behind MS and the Wii this gen that they had very little hope of catching up unless people start buying PS3s as Blu-Ray players, which is now much more likely to happen with HD-DVD on the ropes.

I don't think consumers had any say at all in which high definition format may have won out... it was all about big corporations making decisions, bribing each other and then forcing their choices down our throats.

[Blue Meanie]

HD Blue Ray is a joke...if the movie wasn't originallly mastered in HD...guess what, it aint HD and never will be. It's like trying to make a movie Widescreen when it wasn't shot that way. I just don't get it...it's just another way to re-sell you the same movies that you already have. I still have my LD Player and I haven't replaced any of the movies I already have on LD. And guess what...LD is better than DVD's. It's all about the compression.

Little bit of a post script...the original versions of Star Wars that are now available on dvd are taken right off of the LD Masters. Don't believe the hype about Blue Ray HD.