Shoplifter strangled to death by clerk for stealing...crayons?

[Zemo]

Sorry not in the eyes of the law. He was the Manager and his store is his "house" according to the law. SO it does apply.

[JDeRouen]

This is nothing like what happened with the CVS clerk. It wasn't his home, no one was stealing his property, no one was in his garage.

[Zemo]

Say your in your yard working with your garage door open. You see a guy leaving your garage stuffing something in his pants. You run him down and tackle him. he hits his head on the ground and dies. DO you think you should be charged with murder and called head bashing killer?

[Zemo]

Until the guy leaves the store, it ISN"T shoplifting. You can load your pockets up all you want then go to the register and pay for it. Until you exit the building it isn't stealing.

If the guy had an opportunity to struggle then it was a poorly applied choke hold. There are 2 types, a blood choke where you cut off the blood supply to the head causing the person to pass out and an air choke where you pretty much crush the esophagus. Either one is quite effective and takes about 3-5 seconds to complete. Anything longer is sloppy. Either way, choke holds are no joke and can often cause the person to stop breathing even when that wasn't what the person applying the hold intended. It was a poor choice by the clerk.

Most stores don't want you to do anything even if you see someone stealing. It simply isn't worth it. That could've backfired miserably and the clerk might have died protecting his crayons. Like someone said, clerks don't get paid enuf for that risk.
So what if the guy got had gotten away? This is not a justified case of self defense or home invasion, it's a freakin store, and 5 bucks worth of stuff. That loser clerk should be held accountable for his poor application of restraint.

Everyone keeps skipping the part that 3 other people had to help hold this guy down and a sheriff that was standing right there.. What started as a clerk trying to stop a thief, very well could ended up having him in a fight for his life.

[Doc]

You steal you go and have a finger surgically removed. The cost of sugery done humanly is far less then supporting said person through jail time. And honestly no one gets any kind of help in jail.

The next theft they lose the hand. They can still work and function in society with one hand. and I'm sure they will think twice after the finger.

Rape ... surgical castration. Sex offenders cannot be cured. Meds only work if you actually take them.

Murder. First offense or one person. Jail time with option of parole. Second offense or more then one body. Death

And yes I did what I did and would take a similar appropriate punishment

[SUP-Ronin]

Until the guy leaves the store, it ISN"T shoplifting. You can load your pockets up all you want then go to the register and pay for it. Until you exit the building it isn't stealing. It looks like the guy did leave the building. SO he's a petty thief, it's a misdeamanor. That doesn't justify killing him. What the heck people??

If the guy had an opportunity to struggle then it was a poorly applied choke hold. There are 2 types, a blood choke where you cut off the blood supply to the head causing the person to pass out and an air choke where you pretty much crush the esophagus. Either one is quite effective and takes about 3-5 seconds to complete. Anything longer is sloppy. Either way, choke holds are no joke and can often cause the person to stop breathing even when that wasn't what the person applying the hold intended. It was a poor choice by the clerk.

Most stores don't want you to do anything even if you see someone stealing. It simply isn't worth it. That could've backfired miserably and the clerk might have died protecting his crayons. Like someone said, clerks don't get paid enuf for that risk.
So what if the guy got had gotten away? This is not a justified case of self defense or home invasion, it's a freakin store, and 5 bucks worth of stuff. That loser clerk should be held accountable for his poor application of restraint.

[toys2cool]

And I agree with you to an extent..mainly, I'm just boggled on why the clerk is the one who is taking most of the blame here from some
posters ....

ummm gee i don't know,maybe because he killed someone

[JDeRouen]

Look at it this way; say a passerby on the street noticed someone jaywalking, and, because jaywalking is illegal, pulled out a gun and shot him. Would the homicide be justified? Sure, the example is extreme, but it does make a point.

[huedell]

Hue, think for a minute about what you're saying here. No one said the thief was in the right, of course he committed a crime.
But he stole CRAYONS and TOOTHPASTE, worth $5. And he shoplifted it, meaning he consealed the goods and tried to walk out the store, he didn't threaten anyone, didn't hold anyone at gun point. The clerk's reaction was totally over the top.
Besides, how in the world do you strangle someone trying to subdue him? Ever been in a fight, with your brother or someone else? Ever tried holding someone down on the ground? I have, and my hands were never anywhere near the other guy's throat. I'm thinking the clerk got a little too ****ed off at the thied and totally overreacted.

And I agree with you to an extent..mainly, I'm just boggled on why the clerk is the one who is taking most of the blame here from some
posters ....especially in the context of, if the crime was a small one, then its
that much more different than stealing a car, I guess?

[huedell]

p.s. I'm going to strangle the next person who spells "thief" incorrectly.

Awwww....sorry to ruffle your feathers Joe. (EDITED TO ADD: wink-wink)

[JDeRouen]

Most store policies specifically forbid getting physically involved with a thief. I know when I worked for Chevron some twenty odd years ago, that was the case. In fact, some teenagers stole beer once. I called the police and they actually managed to catch them and brought them back to the store. (The manager refused to press charges because then the beer would have to be held in evidence and thus wouldn't be available for sale. Sad but true!) They were let go with a warning and told never to enter the store again.

If I had physically intervened I would have put myself and, by extension, the store at liability, and probably have gotten myself fired.

Anyone that compares this to someone breaking into your home is way off base. It isn't the same thing at all. Your home is your property and you have a right to use force to defend it; the store is not, and you do not. The clerk had no responsibility nor right to do what he did, and should be prosecuted for it.

p.s. I'm going to strangle the next person who spells "thief" incorrectly.

[Meule]

No we could just slap him on the wrist and keep sending him on his way.
And when he moves to bigger things maybe we can give him a few small county bids A few weeks here a month or so there.

We can put him in a place where he will learn to hate the system and learn from other criminals

And when he moves up to the really big time we can all scratch our heads and wonder why this happened.

Spent time on the other side of the bars and could tell you exactly what the majority on the other side thinks and you all wouldn't like it.

Who said anything about letting thiefs get away with stealing?
All we're saying is stealing doesn't deserve the death penalty. Maybe you think it does?

[Meule]

Illegal downloading? Bootleg DVDs?
The guy was in a store and got killed while comitting a crime.

You and others are deflecting from the fact that the guy was
accidentally killed in a situation that HE started by comitting a crime
by bringing up rough analogies and repeating that it was a petty crime.

It was a CRIME that was "overhandled" in the heat of the moment
and altho' the clerk may be liable for involuntary manslaughter charges....
what happened was just a result of an overexcited clerk, yes...but
was also a result of a stupid theif
....if there were less of those around, yes, the world WOULD be a better place.

The guilty party here is not a murderous clerk looking to declare his own law,
it was a small time crook who got more than he bargained for.

Hue, think for a minute about what you're saying here. No one said the thief was in the right, of course he committed a crime.
But he stole CRAYONS and TOOTHPASTE, worth $5. And he shoplifted it, meaning he consealed the goods and tried to walk out the store, he didn't threaten anyone, didn't hold anyone at gun point. The clerk's reaction was totally over the top.
Besides, how in the world do you strangle someone trying to subdue him? Ever been in a fight, with your brother or someone else? Ever tried holding someone down on the ground? I have, and my hands were never anywhere near the other guy's throat. I'm thinking the clerk got a little too ****ed off at the thied and totally overreacted.

[SlipperyLilSuckers]

No we could just slap him on the wrist and keep sending him on his way.
And when he moves to bigger things maybe we can give him a few small county bids A few weeks here a month or so there.

We can put him in a place where he will learn to hate the system and learn from other criminals

And when he moves up to the really big time we can all scratch our heads and wonder why this happened.

Spent time on the other side of the bars and could tell you exactly what the majority on the other side thinks and you all wouldn't like it.

So, we should just kill him and move right along?

I guess you could have been killed for whatever crime you committed too.

[toys2cool]

Illegal downloading? Bootleg DVDs?
The guy was in a store and got killed while comitting a crime.

You and others are deflecting from the fact that the guy was
accidentally killed in a situation that HE started by comitting a crime
by bringing up rough analogies and repeating that it was a petty crime.

It was a CRIME that was "overhandled" in the heat of the moment
and altho' the clerk may be liable for involuntary manslaughter charges....
what happened was just a result of an overexcited clerk, yes...but
was also a result of a stupid theif
....if there were less of those around, yes, the world WOULD be a better place.

The guilty party here is not a murderous clerk looking to declare his own law,
it was a small time crook who got more than he bargained for.

in the end the guy still killed someone over a freakin box of crayons and tooth paste, could you imagine living with yourself knowing you took a life for that ****?

Now the dumb *** will probably get fired anyways after trying to be a hero and save the store $5