Where's the punchline?

[Mr.Marion]

That was my point. If comics barely survived then, when the market was fairly healthy before (compared to now, anyways), it would be completely disastrous now.

Chris

The Zeppelin can't crash and burn if it doesn't leave the ground though.

Not much more to say interest in comic book characters as IP properties is at an all to high but their monthly books couldn't draw flies with a poop smell variant cover.

[Earth 2 Chris]

^Cool, I'll check it out!

[MRP]

^I would like to see that documentary. I worked at a Comic/Office Supply Store in college!

Chris

I believe this was the one....

It's a little older than I remembered though, from 2015, so who knows how these shops have fared 5 years later...

-M

[Earth 2 Chris]

^I would like to see that documentary. I worked at a Comic/Office Supply Store in college!

Chris

[MRP]

^And this is why some many comic shops carry just as much, if not more merchandise than just comics. I know a lot of folks complain here about POP figures, and my LCS has a TON of them, but they sell, and they bring in a lot of customers. If comics do go bust, or at least if things get worse, it's at least something, unless those eventually go the way of all fads, ala Beanie Babies, etc.

Chris

Exactly. Even the major well funded comics shops (Midtown Comics, TFAW, etc.) are as much pop culture merchandise stores as they are comic shops these days. Some also combine comics with gaming (Magic, Pokemon,Hero Clix, D&D etc.) and some go unique routes to diversify what they do. There was a documentary done about 3-4 years ago with some guys travelling through the midwest visiting comic shops trying to find unique storefronts (I forget the title now, but it was available on youtube), and there were some distinct combinations-a barbershop/comic shop, a coffeehouse/comic shop, etc. A comic only specialty shop these days is pretty much non-viable. You have to diversify your revenue portfolio. There's not enough sales in comics alone (including trades sold on the direct market not the book trade) to sustain most businesses these days (especially when your merch comes C.O.D. as it does with Diamond and you have to be able to pay for everything you order + shipping before you can sell a single item from it, and if you can't make the payment you don't get that week's books/merch to sell).

-M

[Earth 2 Chris]

^And this is why some many comic shops carry just as much, if not more merchandise than just comics. I know a lot of folks complain here about POP figures, and my LCS has a TON of them, but they sell, and they bring in a lot of customers. If comics do go bust, or at least if things get worse, it's at least something, unless those eventually go the way of all fads, ala Beanie Babies, etc.

Chris

[MRP]

That was my point. If comics barely survived then, when the market was fairly healthy before (compared to now, anyways), it would be completely disastrous now.

Chris

There's been a speculator market driving comics now for almost 10 years. Variant covers, huge explosions in value of Image #1s, etc. has been part of the comic market now at least since 2012 when I Was helping out in a local shop. About 2 years ago some of our local shops instituted a policy of limiting the number of copies someone could buy off the shelf to 2 (you could get as many as you wanted if you pre-ordered, but people were coming in off the street snapping up copies of whatever was alleged to become hot based on a collector app and facebook group that existed fueling speculation grabs on certain books).

Pretty much the entire Marvel line's sales is predicated on shops overordering certain books to qualify to order copies of certain rare variants that appeal only to speculators and you often see all those extra copies dumped into dollar bins at cons and shops within a few months of release because there are not enough customers left in the direct market to create enough demand to meet the supply of books flooding the market so shops can order those variants.

It's not a matter of if there is a new speculator boom and bust, it's already started, the question is what happens when the variant and speculator bubble bursts? Will shops still order enough to keep some publishers going or keep the periodical market viable. The only growth in comics is in the young adult book trade. Some keep pushing the idea that dollars and revenue sales are up so the market is healthy, but those increases have been accomplished through higher price points and the percentage of growth in revenue was less than the percentage of increase in MSRP, so if you look at actual units sold, it has been descreasing for some time even if revenue is up because of higher pried products. The success of some higher price products in recent years (such as Action #1000 and Detective #1000 with a $10 price point) has propped up those revenue numbers and led to an increase in books like that-Wonder Woman and Flash #750, the 80th anniversary issues for Robin, Catwoman, Joker, etc.

If you look at the industry honestly right now, it is completely propped up by speculation, variants, and high priced special issues. And that bubble cannot last. So, again, it's not a question of will there be another bubble and burst, it's a question of when will this current bubble we are in burst. More comic shops closed in 2019 than the previous three years combined. We haven't seen that kind of increase in shop closures since the speculator bubble burst in the 90s, so the bubble may very well have started to burst.



-M

[Earth 2 Chris]

Completely different scenario comics are holding on to life now, while in the 90's some books had a million copy run. The printed page in general is a gradually shrinking market.

That was my point. If comics barely survived then, when the market was fairly healthy before (compared to now, anyways), it would be completely disastrous now.

Chris

[Riffster]

Totally agree, the market can't take another 90's market. especially with books at $4 and $5 and in some cases $10 a pop

[Mr.Marion]

If it creates foot traffic at comic shops, I guess there is some good in that. But I don't like the idea of speculators starting to dig into comics again. We all saw how that worked out in the 90s. If there was a speculator boom, I don't think the comic industry could survived the resulting bust now.

Chris

Completely different scenario comics are holding on to life now, while in the 90's some books had a million copy run. The printed page in general is a gradually shrinking market.

[Riffster]

Totally agree, the market can't take another 90's market. especially with books at $4 and $5 and in some cases $10 a pop

[Earth 2 Chris]

If it creates foot traffic at comic shops, I guess there is some good in that. But I don't like the idea of speculators starting to dig into comics again. We all saw how that worked out in the 90s. If there was a speculator boom, I don't think the comic industry could survived the resulting bust now.

Chris

[Riffster]

I guess both books are going for $50 + on ebay, my local shop was only selling to regulars but that wasn't stopping people from coming in asking for 10 copies. sites like Bleeding Cool start it with articles, they even made 3 Betty and Veronica books shoot up in price cause they said the covers were risque and were hard to find. It makes collecting comics not as fun if you're just out to read them

[Earth 2 Chris]

^There were ads promoting both saying how important each would be, and no one listened. I bought everything Batman, so I automatically got them. And then when Knightfall hit, everyone else was scrambling after them.

Chris

[Nostalgiabuff]

Well, DC told us Bane would be a big deal nearly 30 years ago, and he was, so...

yes, but as I recall, there was really no advanced promoting of that initial Bane one shot. it was just another of many Batman one shots/mini series hitting the shelves at that time and so Both Vengeance of Bane, and the Sword of Azrael miniseries were under ordered by retailers because no one knew who the characters were or how they were soon going to be used in the Batverse