Dark Knight Rises spoilers thread

[samurainoir]

Thanks, totally missed that point. Wish the Knightfall storyline with Azreal as Batman only lasted five months, way back when.

I was never a huge fan of knightfall, although I could appreciate that moment Bane broke Batman's back in the film has kind of become hugely iconic, even if I felt the original storyline wasn't really my cup of tea. On the other hand, I do really dig the nod to No Man's Land, which I do think was the one huge Batman crossover that did hold together into a compelling and coherent epic storyline. Hopefully chuck Dixon, Greg Rucka and co got their cheques for that contribution to TDKR.

One really has to speculate, given how they did manage to wrap up so many story lines and character arcs, what the Joker's role might have been in this film had Heath Ledger survived. Maybe a wild card amidst the carnage? Perhaps neutralized by Bane to show how tough he is. I'd suspect much more than the Scarecrow cameo, but obviously less than the main villains Talia and bane.

It just occurred to me that Joker would have made an even better Judge in place of Scarecrow in the kangaroo courts.

[samurainoir]

Come to think of it, Chuck Dixon really does have a great deal of the original source material that they incorporated into the tapestry when you consider how his run on Nightwing had Dick Grayson as a police officer. a comics fan like Goyer would know this when he was cherry picking stuff from the comics to I corporate into the script.

[bleit1701]

I hadn't planned to see the film this weekend but Colorado made me feel defiant somehow and I needed to see it right away.

It was just as emotional and intense as the first two. I agree that there wasn't enough Batman but the story kept the movie moving. So if a Batman movie is light on the main character at least the story was there. I did not see the 'boy' being Talia at all. I did see Blake and a replacement coming. Plus the "Batman can be anyone" line.

So Bruce has is own clean energy reactor? IronBat any one?

Ann Hathaway is great as Catwoman. I also vote for a spinoff.

Oldman, Freeman and Caine all own their roles. They will be hard to replace.

It was good to see William Devane as the President again. How many times has he done that in various projects?

This certainly took Batman out of the shadows- is he real or not. He was even out in the daylight. But I was OK with that.

I wish the Gotham football team had been playing the Metropolis team. It would have been a nice nod.

How did Bane know about the secret armory? Did I miss that?

When they activated the reactor and removed the core they said how many months it would take to go critical.

It was cool to include the Bane breaking? Batman's back moment. It felt a lot like the No Man's Land story line with Gotham being isolated and all.

I had a problem with the police being trapped underground all winter. Seems they would have froze. And they looked a little clean when they came out. If they could communicate with them it seems they could have dug them out or snuck out some man holes or something. It's a big city.

It was a little chilling when they were blowing the bridges and tunnels. In one shot you could see the Freedom Tower in the middle of it all. It's hard to stay in the fantasy when the real world has similar events in it.


And nothing at the end of the credits.









The Superman trailer left me puzzled. Does he grow up on the coast instead of Kansas? There were several gasps when it was revealed as who it was. A lot of people didn't realize a new Superman movie was on the horizon.

[The Bat]

Bat,

Did you read my comments? I think I feel the same way you did.

I did...and we agree.

[Earth 2 Chris]

Bruce Wayne being so obsessed that he would never retire is something relatively new to the Batman mythos. He retired in imaginary stories throughout the 50s, 60s and 70s, and then of course retired on Earth-Two (although he did return on occasion, including the mission where he lost his life). A retired Bruce Wayne with Selina Kyle is VERY Earth-Two. As you can imagine, I liked that.

All in all, Nolan's Batman is mentally healthier than the character DC has portrayed since Miller came to town. He has spoken of the day when Gotham doesn't need Batman since the first film, so I can't understand why people are surprised by the ending, or his exile at the beginning of the movie.

DC has managed to make Batman rather unheroic over the last several decades, trying to trump Miller's gritty style. I never felt that about Nolan and Bale's Batman. He was conflicted, obsessed, damaged...but his foremost thought was protecting innocent people from crime.

I can't really see where this film was "super heroed" up than the other two, especially Begins, with it's fear toxin and water vaporizer plot, Batman gliding every where on his memory cloth cape, etc. DK dialed back those elements, but they returned here.

My son asked me which of the three films I liked the best. I can't really say. I look at the series as a novel, more so than any other film franchise I have invested in. DK was the juicy chapter in the middle that stands out, but both Begins and DKR were well composed beginnings and endings.

Chris

[madmarva]

^Dixon did yeoman's work on various Bat titles in the 90s and into the 2000s, and I miss his work in the DCU, particularly on the Bat-related books. Really enjoyed his work on Air Boy, too, from the mid-80s. Similarly, Mark Waid, who probably knows more about Superman than anyone, is exiled from DC. Those are two of the key talents I'd want to talk to about writing Superman and Batman, if I were an editor, and DC ostracized or marginalized enough to not want to work for them.

Yeah, the judge's roll really would have been perfect for the Joker, but still worked with Scarecrow.


I know I read No Man's Land, but for whatever reason, it's not memorable — good or bad —*in my thoughts. I knew the film sorta was a cross between it and the Bane storyline. But it's really amazing how much comics material Nolan used/referenced in the three films but still managed to firmly leave his own original stamp on the character. Going in I wasn't sure if I liked him doing a final chapter that truly closed Bruce Wayne's chapter as Batman or Batman in general. I'm so used to Batman just going on and on. But, Nolan really brought his trilogy full circle, tied up everything with a bow. I was thoroughly pleased with this film as closure on his Batman series, although I do think the third movie is the weakest of the three.

Like others, there are aspects — even many aspects — of Nolan's Batman that don't jibe with my personal view of the character. Nolan's Batman is not "The Definitive Batman," to me. Miller's "Dark Night Returns" doesn't fit into my definitive view of Batman, either, but I do recognize it as an interesting version of the character, like the TV Batman, that can be enjoyed within its own context. That's what Nolan's Batman trilogy is to me, an interesting version of perhaps the most durable fictional character created.

[The Toyroom]

Saw it yesterday....I thoroughly enjoyed it, considering going in I really had no interest since the first two films were emotionally exhausting roller coaster rides. Gotham got darker and darker and what was the point in being Batman, it seemed like a dead-end job with no rewards, especially after he had to become the "badguy" at the end of TDK.
So Bale's Bruce Wayne at the beginning of TDKR, having given up 8 years ago, was sort of a metaphor for me as a viewer. As he struggled to make his way back as Batman, it won me over too by the final scenes.

Bane was a much more interesting villain than I ever would have thought since I always considered him a one-hit wonder ("Knightfall") and he's too "new" for me as far as
comics canon goes (although I realize he's been around for almost 20 years now). I thought that he deserved a better send-off/death-scene than he did though. But of course somebody else had to kill him besides Batman so I guess that was the way to go.

When Anne Hathaway was originally announced as Selina Kyle I thought she had the looks but wasn't sure if she could pull off the actual role. To me Julie Newmar has always been and probably always will be the ultimate Catwoman. But Hathaway totally owned the role with her riding of the fence 'tween good girl gone bad and bad girl turning good.
The costume could have used a bit more oomph IMO but it worked within the context of the Nolan Bat-iverse. I appreciated the fact that she was a formidable fighter on her own and didn't have to resort to a whip ala Michelle Pffeiffer's version. She was very believable as a notorious cat-burglar with her slinky athleticism and back-flips.

Miranda Tate/Talia fell way short for me...I never believed once that she was "hot" and that Bruce would fall for her...the actress did nothing for me. And I thought it was telegraphed pretty early on that she was Talia and that it was she that escaped from that prison, not Bane.

Once again Commissioner Gordon, Alfred and Lucius Fox were great supporting characters, although I was missing Alfred quite a bit after he left Bruce mid-movie.

John Blake...would it have killed them to just have named him Richard Grayson, instead of trying to beat you over the head with the reveal that his first name was really "Robin"?
That was the cheesiest part of the whole ending IMO. I didn't mind that Bruce Wayne decided to turn his Batman gear over to someone else but it would've been nice if it was an actual character in the Batman mythos instead of someone Nolan made up. And if he does take over the cape and cowl exactly how far is he going to get without Wayne resources to back him up? Or will Lucius Fox give him new toys just for the hell of it?

All in all, Nolan's Batman series is probably the greatest super-hero trilogy but to be fair what else even qualifies? Tobey Maguire's Spider-Man? Nope. Christopher Reeve's Superman (which was four movies, two of which suck)? Nope. Burton's Batman (four movies, two directors, 3 Batmen, descent into campiness)? Nope. Downey Jr's Iron Man?
Well, the third movie isn't out yet but I doubt it. So it's really not a fair playing field but I guess that's why, even more so, you have to give Nolan credit for having a vision and seeing it through for all 3 movies which intersect with each other and tell a complete and ultimately satisfying, although not 100% perfect, Batman story.

But to me, I don't think the ultimate Batman movie has been made yet...it probably never will be. Seems movie executives aren't interested in a Batman that isn't always dark and somber, has a TEEN sidekick, drives a vehicle that isn't a tank, and fights colorful villains and monsters on a regular basis. I guess that's what BTAS is for. So for all intents and purposes, Christopher Nolan's Batman is THE movie Batman, until someone else comes along to prove otherwise.

[boynightwing]

I knew Hathaway was going to be good when I was forced to see Valentines Day with my girlfriend. Hathaway plays this bondage phone sex operator and it gives you a bit of insight that she can play someone with a dark side. I loved her Catwoman. I loved how she was at odds with her own morality. She stole the show for me.

I'd go see Nightwing Begins in a heartbeat. I guess that's pretty obvious. I loved the ending and I loved the possibilities that comes with it. If they made another movie following this I think it would be great because it's something we really haven't seen before.

[Earth 2 Chris]

Chuck Dixon was pretty much THE Batman writers of the 90s, writing Detective, Robin, Nightwing and Birds of Prey at one time or another. After Denny O'Neil retired as editor, Dixon didn't seem to get along too well with Bob Schreck, and we the readers suffered for it.

No Man's Land was good in and of itself, but in the context of the DCU made little sense. That was my problem with it. The concept worked much better in Nolan's film, since Batman is the only costumed hero (that we know of). No Superman to come and solve the problem as he should have in the comics. I know DC addressed this somewhat, but it was pretty flimsy.

In addition to creating Bane, Dixon was also involved with the Legacy storyline, where Bane became a lieutenant of Ra's Al Ghul, foreshadowing the connection we see in the movie. Dixon penned most of the chapters involving Bane. Bane also became infatuated with Talia in this storyline.

So DKR borrowed elements from Dark Knight Returns, No Man's Land, Knightfall, and Legacy, as well as various other Batman stories over the years.

Chris

[RickD]

I enjoyed the movie! Not quite "The Dark Knight" level, but it surpasses "Batman Begins" for sure.

Hardy played a great Bane. Bane's character was menacing and was perfect for this role in Nolans series.

Hathaway was fantastic as selina kyle. I loved that they never mentioned her as 'Catwoman' in the movie.

I agree, the ending stating John blake's name as 'Robin' was a bit cheesy. My biggest gripe is...Who is going to train Blake if Wayne is out the door? He can't just take over the role, have the batcave and all the toys, and not be trained as Wayne was.

DKR will be one that I can watch over and over again and for me that says alot!

Overall, Nolan paid wonderful tribute to the Batman movies and it will be hard to top anything he has done in my opinion.

I will continue to wait for a menacing Riddler in a Batman movie that is worth praising about...

[The Toyroom]

Chuck Dixon was pretty much THE Batman writers of the 90s, writing Detective, Robin, Nightwing and Birds of Prey at one time or another. After Denny O'Neil retired as editor, Dixon didn't seem to get along too well with Bob Schreck, and we the readers suffered for it.

No Man's Land was good in and of itself, but in the context of the DCU made little sense. That was my problem with it. The concept worked much better in Nolan's film, since Batman is the only costumed hero (that we know of). No Superman to come and solve the problem as he should have in the comics. I know DC addressed this somewhat, but it was pretty flimsy.

In addition to creating Bane, Dixon was also involved with the Legacy storyline, where Bane became a lieutenant of Ra's Al Ghul, foreshadowing the connection we see in the movie. Dixon penned most of the chapters involving Bane. Bane also became infatuated with Talia in this storyline.

There was a recent interview with Chuck Dixon and Graham Nolan where they stated that they have approached DC several times with new story ideas for Bane but DC wants nothing to do with them...but are more than willing to keep reprinting their old stuff...

[spacecaps]

I saw this last night and didn't realize I was about to watch the greatest superhero movie ever filmed. This movie was awesome. It's very rare that the third installment of a trilogy is the best in the series (nothing is coming to mind except maybe Last Crusade and that's debatable) but this movie not only blew away any comic book movie made, it also made the first two films in the series vastly better now that the story is complete. I always thought Begins was kindof a weak movie on it's own but with the tie in's and back story this film provided, Begins is a better movie than it was when it came out. Not many films can do that. This movie also takes Dark Knight from being Batman vs the Joker (with way too much Two-Face) and turns it into the perfect set-up movie for the finale and in the process takes the whole "Batman has to disappear for taking the fall for Dents murder' into a cliffhanger on par with the end of Empire. This was probably the most important movie in the last 20 years and man did it deliver. I heard some fan boys outside the theater griping about how Bruce would never give up being Batman but that's the point of these movies. It's like saying you didn't like the film because Bale didn't play the character the same as Adam West. It's a different series and a fresh look at the character is way better than say remaking a Spiderman movie with the same predictability as the first three films. This is what reboots should be about, a new take on an old character. As for the film itself, I didn't think it would be possible to top Ledger's Joker but Bane was terrifying. His threats were real. He's probably the best Batman villain to appear on screen. The peril he brought to Gotham was palpable and way beyond just bad guy vs. good guy. Also Catwoman was tremendous. She stole every scene she was in and it was nice to see Bruce and Selina finally end up together after almost every incarnation of Batman has teased this possibility, this one actually went through with it. The Robin story arc was great (who cares his name wasn't Dick) His story worked. In fact Rises may be the only comic book based movie to introduce and handle multiple characters without messing it up along the way. Look at say Spidey 3 with Sandman and Venom and Gwen and Harry and on and on...with a mess of a film to show for it. I could not care less about awards or Oscars but I really hope this film gets some kind of consideration for best picture and director because it'll be a long time before we see anything like these films again.

One thing..although the cast was perfect, to a 6 year old, Matthew Modine looks a whole lot like Aaron Eckhart and my son had trouble distinguishing the two apart and after he pointed this out to me, I have to agree with him. Not that I couldn't tell who was who, but after I had to explain to my son that the police man, wasn't Two-Face, I kind of wondered why they would cast an actor that looked so similar to him. (Great casting with the cameo ofy the mayor of Baltimore from The Wire and Game of Thrones though) Also, it's always gonna be a "what would have been" but with the way everyone from the first two movies showed up in this one, I can't help but wonder what kind of role Nolan had in mind for the Joker here.

[kingdom warrior]

What a thrill ride!.. great third movie, really well written... it moved very well and there was not a dull moment. This one connected well with the first movie. everyone was great, Hathaway pulled Catwoman off very well. I was expecting Bane to say I kill You I eat your heart! He reminded me more of the Mutant leader from Miller's Dark knight. Levitt was awesome but really they should have just called him Grayson sheeesh! For me this ones the best one and it ended very nicely and makes it a very satisfying trilogy................now wait a few years and reboot it and do something different.......

[kingdom warrior]

Oh and bane did sound like Sean Connery......

[Earth 2 Chris]

From my understanding, the Nolans and Goyer didn't really have this story mapped out at all until after Ledger's death, and DK's release. So I don't think they ever considered what Joker's role would be here. But one has to wonder...

Glad most folks are liking it, and folks are going out and seeing it.

Chris