Gotham started tonight!!!

[madmarva]

Unfortunately, Batman has gone from being an all-ages character to a teen and up character, it seems. I think it's very shortsighted. Most of what happened could have been insinuated or happened off screen or just toned down. The Gore was excessive. I caught up on a couple of old episodes of Boardwalk Empire afterwards, and there was actually less blood.

I think they are attempting to establish the Penguin as dangerous because otherwise he's such an unthreatening character. To me him beating the guy with the ball bat was nearly has bad as slitting the other guy's throat.

The Barbara- Montoya subplot is obvious to comic fans, but to fans in general maybe not. We can certainly see where Batgirl's looks will come from.

I think the show is going to have to rely on being a solid cop vs the mob show more so than a batman primer. If it does that with smaller bits that foreshadow the future it might work. But if it does become an origin of the week type of thing, it's going to burn out quick.

It appears Gordon is going to be a mentor to Bruce which really does change the dynamic of the relationship. I don't mind that. It's just going to be different.

[sprytel]

I see some potential, but my reaction was mostly "meh".

/spoiler

I absolutely *hated* the "we killed an innocent man. If anyone finds out, we're done" part. Yes, they shot a man who fled the police, then shot a gun repeatedly at the police, and then was shot while trying to stab a police officer. Seems pretty justified regardless of whether or not he killed Thomas and Martha, right? Heck, they didn't even know he had the necklace until after he was dead. I can suspend disbelief about superheroes and all that... but that was just a bridge too far...

[ThePlayerOnTheOtherSide]

It was much better than I thought it would be. It wasn't great, but I liked the focus on the crime elements of Gotham and how they almost become a character as well.

Will give it at least a couple more episodes to see how it develops.

[thunderbolt]

really liked the guy cast as the Penguin. Don't really care for all the compressing of characters with Nigma, Ivy and possibly the Joker(just guessing based on the joke told by the stand up in Fish Mooney's) all crossing paths with the main characters so much in a city of that size.

[Earth 2 Chris]

I absolutely *hated* the "we killed an innocent man. If anyone finds out, we're done" part. Yes, they shot a man who fled the police, then shot a gun repeatedly at the police, and then was shot while trying to stab a police officer. Seems pretty justified regardless of whether or not he killed Thomas and Martha, right? Heck, they didn't even know he had the necklace until after he was dead. I can suspend disbelief about superheroes and all that... but that was just a bridge too far...

I thought the same thing. The guy as a convicted felon, fled, and fired on and attempted to kill an officer. If Gordon had dropped him after he fired the first shot, no one would have blinked.

Chris

[spacecaps]

I was kind of looking forward to this but after one episode I gotta say I'm out. Im guessing this show is gonna last 1-2 seasons. The writing was just terrible. I mean cheesy dialogue in a comic book based tv show is to be expected but ooof, cringe worthy moments like Gordon talking to Wayne on the fire escape was one of the worst. Was introducing all the villains in brief cameos a good idea? After a while I was wondering if I was reading into things (like was the aforementioned comedian The Joker) or when the blade black cop said "Stay Frosty" was that foreshadowing to him becoming Mr. Freeze. Tune in tomorrow same Bat time....ah forget it because by the end of the show all those character connections and cameos seemed so forced I just didn't care. I'm sorry to say this but the Batman origin story is just over done. I know it's part of the fabric of the character but how many times can you see the Waynes murdered. I think the Burton movie nailed that scene and every attempt afterwards has just failed in comparison. Heck all these characters are starting to feel tired to me. If you wanna see a good early Batman story, Year One nails Gordon perfectly (and it's Brian Cranston too!) Fish Mooney? That's the character they came up with for this show. The last time a Batman TV show created it's own character specifically for the show we got Harley FREAKIN Quinn. Some how I don't think Fish is gonna reach that same iconic status. Then there was the gore thing too. It was bloody violent in a PG-13 sort of way. Either make the show for adults or make it for kids but don't give me this Alien/Predator type violence. It just doesn't work. How is it that the animated series got everything so right and it was a kids cartoon and this show misses on every level. Also was I the only one that thought this show was gonna be set in the 70's? You'd think that in a show called Gotham the city itself would play a role and almost be a character onto itself (like the way Miami was an essential part to Dexter or New Mexico in Breaking Bad) I figured a late 70's 42nd ST New York vibe would have really set the stage for this show, instead Gotham felt more like a back drop to a video game.

[ScottA]

I'll give it a chance. I'm in for the season.

[Bizarro Amy]

I was hoping this would be more like the Gotham Central comics and the presence of at least some villains would be minimalized. I think I'm just going to read Batman:Year One and pick up some Gotham Central trades instead.

[Earth 2 Chris]

Here's something else that bothered me: Why did Gordon go to Bruce at the end and tell him the police framed Pepper for his parents' murder? Gordon had already seen what knowing too much can get you in Gotham, and now he's endangered an underage kid and his butler? I know, story-wise, they want Bruce and Gordon to bond, but I think this seemed REALLY dumb on Gordon's part, and in this episode he should have learned, to survive and Gotham, you're going to have to play things close to the vest.

I'm still willing to give it a few episodes, but the pilot was trying to come across as adult, smart and edgy, but there were logic holes big enough to drive the Tumbler through.

Chris

[plaztekman]

Not impressed with the pilot. I'll give it a few episodes, though.

[Dark Shadow]

Here's something else that bothered me: Why did Gordon go to Bruce at the end and tell him the police framed Pepper for his parents' murder? Gordon had already seen what knowing too much can get you in Gotham, and now he's endangered an underage kid and his butler? I know, story-wise, they want Bruce and Gordon to bond, but I think this seemed REALLY dumb on Gordon's part, and in this episode he should have learned, to survive and Gotham, you're going to have to play things close to the vest....

I'm not so sure this was a thoughtless action. I think it was a deliberate strategic move.

Rewind to the introduction between Gordon & Alfred and watch facial expressions:

"We're going to get the guy who did this Sir"
"New boy are ya?"
"You could say"
"Good luck Mate"

James learns right then and there that Pennyworth "gets it" when it comes to the truth about Gotham.

Then as Alfred & Bruce walk away James overhears the directives...

"Head Up. Don't let them see you crying"

Gordon witnesses the discipline that has been instilled in the boy and comes to understand that Alfred is not just a servant but a true guardian.

The way I see it...James made the revelation known (completely understanding the level of discretion maintained within the household) for two reasons:

A. To prove his level of commitment on solving this double homicide.
B. To earn trust & build a foundation with both Bruce & Alfred which, in turn, will gain him insight that will assist him with the case and his overall understanding of Gotham.

...Oswald slashing the guy's throat and eating his sandwich while the music blared was almost laughable; "I'VE STOLEN YOUR SANDWICH, BWAHAHAHAHA!!!" I'm not really sure what they were trying to establish there. Maybe that this Penguin is a bad-arse?...

I think what we saw was not a man proving how "bad" he is, but a deranged coward becoming a truly unhinged menace.

His ambitious miscalculation caused him deep humiliation along with a death sentence, yet he was shown mercy by his would-be executioner. He was then tossed into the cold dank harbor, survival kicked into high-gear, and he swam from the island to the shore. Down to his most basic instinct (take what I need) the old man was nothing more than an obstacle between him and much-needed nourishment. If a single human life means nothing to him when it comes to his basic needs, what then will stand in the way of his strongest desire, of what he believes to be his rightful place in Gotham?

I think his face tells all as he looks across the water back at Gotham.


That's just the way I saw it from my perspective, I have no idea what the director had in mind though. I hope the show comes around to meet your expectations, it seems like you've really been looking forward to this. I know what it's like to look forward to something on this level and have it all fall apart.

[Earth 2 Chris]

^I see your points, but I still think it was a bit of a stretch for Gordon to go an endanger Bruce and Alfred given what he now knows.

I actually wasn't really looking forward to this. I'm a huge Batman fan, but DC/WB's handling of the property nowadays leaves much to be desired in my minds. I think this show has potential, but I do kind of question why it exists in the first place, honestly.

Chris

[PNGwynne]

Choppy, uneven, & overly violent for my taste.

But Cobblepot intrigues me.

I'm expecting this to be a mixed bag with fun easter-eggs and an occasional clever spark (like Smallville imo).

[Dark Shadow]

^...I actually wasn't really looking forward to this. I'm a huge Batman fan, but DC/WB's handling of the property nowadays leaves much to be desired in my minds. I think this show has potential, but I do kind of question why it exists in the first place, honestly...

Same here. When I first heard it was in the works I just kinda rolled my eyes and thought "whatever". It wasn't until I had seen a few of the extended promos last week that I even considered watching it. Maybe that's why I enjoyed it as much as I did, I had little to no expectations going into it. I wasn't exactly blown away, but I did want more when it was over. So I'll be tuning in next week for sure.

...But Cobblepot intrigues me....

Again...same here. He's what caught my attention in the promos...and the one I found the most interesting in the first episode. I hope he is featured regularly.

..................

I enjoy good stories with interesting characters. I also enjoy mediocre stories which happen to feature good solid characters. I can even tolerate bad stories, as long as there are captivating roles that help me turn a blind eye. I just cannot handle stories (good or bad) if there aren't enough strong characterizations to hold my attention.

[sprytel]

As Dark Shadow was describing Alfred, it made me wonder...

You don't think there is any chance that the butler did it, do you?