No two packs until October.

[Boywonder0]

Yeah, I see no problem with a small delay either. As for the CC charge I wouldn't like them to charge my card even if they had these ready to ship but they must at some point.

[ThePlayerOnTheOtherSide]

It actually doesn't matter what the ' secret cause' of the delay was

Then why publicly claim that they are 'hard up for money' and purposely lying to their customers? IMO that's a pretty serious claim to make, even if you frame it as you are 'guessing' that's what happened.

[jayraytee]

Just speaking as a fellow retailer. We process hundreds of orders per day. We don't have time to craft an email for each individual customer to notify them when their order has shipped. Our shipping notification emails are on an automated system scheduled to go out the moment a shipping label is produced. FTC likely has a similar automated system tied to billing.

Thats the crux of it. No matter what the reason for the 'delay,' the fact is as stated above, they charged everyone before the product was ready to ship causing the automated emails saying the product was shipped. Those automated systems work that way because thats how the 'credit card' business is supposed to be handled. You are not supposed to charge anyone until you have the product so you can ship it. (Since as you charge the shipping label is printed and the email is sent out.) Then someone wrote and asked them and they said that the truck was delayed and the items would ship the following week, I remember because people were aggrivated that the following Monday was labor day and the mail wouldn't ship that day. Now they are saying it won't be until October. If the product was ready, but the truck was delayed, then what is the delay until October? I hypothesized that they need money, lex parsimoniae, it is the hypotheses that requires the least assumptions. But even without that, they were in the wrong to charge people before having the product to ship and if its going to be delayed until October, then technically they should reimburse the credit card transactions until the product is actually ready to ship. Of course they can't do that, if they used the money already.

[ThePlayerOnTheOtherSide]

Yeah, I see no problem with a small delay either. As for the CC charge I wouldn't like them to charge my card even if they had these ready to ship but they must at some point.

I think it's also worth noting that a lot of online retailers have started saying a product is 'shipped' when they enter it in their system as such. We even see this with the guy selling on eBay that generates a tracking number with the USPS software he uses at home, but when you try to use that tracking number, it says the item isn't in transit yet. I think too many retailers are broadening to the definition of 'shipped' to 'we've received your order and have begun processing it'.

Another example: Let's say you use a drop-shipper, and sell an item, then turn around and order that item from the drop-shipper to satisfy the order. If it turns out that the drop-shipper can't satisfy your order, then you can't satisfy the sale you made.

As someone else said, it's not always black helicopters overhead.

[ThePlayerOnTheOtherSide]

If the product was ready, but the truck was delayed, then what is the delay until October? I hypothesized that they need money, lex parsimoniae, it is the hypotheses that requires the least assumptions.

But that hypothesis is based on your knowledge of the situation, which could be completely flawed. ie there could be several reasons for the delay that you have no knowledge of. And if you had this knowledge, you might see that your original assumption (based on incomplete information) was completely off base.

I do agree with you that they shouldn't have charged the credit cards when the products weren't technically ready to ship. It is my GUESS based on what I've been told that they assumed that the product would be available earlier, which is why they went ahead and charged the cards to speed up the shipping process. I think MIB is close, I think they knew that they had fanboys waiting on this product so they chose to make the move that would get them their money a day or so quicker, and get us fanboys our products a day or two quicker. But they hit a snag that they weren't counting on that was out of their control.

That's my guess.

[ThePlayerOnTheOtherSide]

Kind of did that from the start. I'm not speculating anything everything I stated is actual fact. Read the post that I myself posted. I made no accusations what so ever I only stated that FACT 1 credit cards were charged before product was ready to ship (which they should not have been per THERE pre order policy) 2 I got an email stating that everything they charged me for was shipped out. So as you can see this is NOT speculation but fact you however are speculating. You called me out telling me to relax. If you have nothing but SPECULATION to add then don't call me out you don't know me I do not speak with you on this site or in the real world. It's members like yourself that is ruining this site for me personally. People cant seem to post anything anymore without some " know it all" trying to "speculate" what's going on. Just speak facts .

Just curious, what did FTC tell you when you talked to them about this?

[jayraytee]

I think it's also worth noting that a lot of online retailers have started saying a product is 'shipped' when they enter it in their system as such. We even see this with the guy selling on eBay that generates a tracking number with the USPS software he uses at home, but when you try to use that tracking number, it says the item isn't in transit yet. I think too many retailers are broadening to the definition of 'shipped' to 'we've received your order and have begun processing it'.

Another example: Let's say you use a drop-shipper, and sell an item, then turn around and order that item from the drop-shipper to satisfy the order. If it turns out that the drop-shipper can't satisfy your order, then you can't satisfy the sale you made.

As someone else said, it's not always black helicopters overhead.

Nope. This is two different things.
Online retailers, with their own site and shopping cart system, sign contracts with each credit card company agreeing to the rules of processing their (VISA, Mastercard, Discover, American Express) cards. These contracts state that you can't charge people until the product transaction is made. So if it's a mail order business you are not supposed to charge people until the product is actually ready to ship (ie: in your hands.) Anything contrary to this agreement can cause you to lose your registration with that card company resulting in you losing the ability to take that specific credit card.

Then there is the UPS software that prints the label and sends the email and gives a tracking number. Ebay sellers might have this without having the above credit card registration, since they use ebay/paypal for processing. The above online merchants might use this system for shipping as well.

In both cases the tracking number will not show up in the system until it is scanned by Fedex/UPS/USPS. Which means someone might print the labels and box up the product and either not take it up to the shipper for a couple days or miss the shipper 'pickup time.' In which case, they are supposed to get them out the next day. If they print shipping labels and hold onto them for say a week and then ship the product they can also get into trouble with the shipping services because that makes it look as though the shipping service is much slower than they are because the date at which the label is printed is the start date and the delivery date is the end of the shipping time.

So it doesn't matter who it is, once you charge the credit card and print the label with the automated 'shipped' email, you are on the hook to ship the product immediately.

[warlock664]

Just curious, what did FTC tell you when you talked to them about this?

Jeez, he can't disclose that, he was "told in confidence", just like someone else on this site with insider info.

(wise4671, this isn't intended as a dig towards you)

[jayraytee]

But that hypothesis is based on your knowledge of the situation, which could be completely flawed. ie there could be several reasons for the delay that you have no knowledge of. And if you had this knowledge, you might see that your original assumption (based on incomplete information) was completely off base.

I do agree with you that they shouldn't have charged the credit cards when the products weren't technically ready to ship. It is my GUESS based on what I've been told that they assumed that the product would be available earlier, which is why they went ahead and charged the cards to speed up the shipping process. I think MIB is close, I think they knew that they had fanboys waiting on this product so they chose to make the move that would get them their money a day or so quicker, and get us fanboys our products a day or two quicker. But they hit a snag that they weren't counting on that was out of their control.

That's my guess.

No black helicopters. But it is much more of a stretch to assume, 1st that the product was ready so they charged people and printed shipping labels sending out the automated emails. Then 2nd to assume that the truck was delayed. Then 3rd assume that the supposed completed product which was available for shipping on the delayed truck has now been delayed until October without assuming that the product is not ready until October and wasn't ever ready and wasn't ever ready to ship or delayed on a truck.

[ThePlayerOnTheOtherSide]

Jeez, he can't disclose that, he was "told in confidence", just like someone else on this site with insider info.

(wise4671, this isn't intended as a dig towards you)

LOL! It's ok, my having 'insider info' doesn't make me a better person than you. But the fact I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany just might

[Wise4671]

Just curious, what did FTC tell you when you talked to them about this?

Just curious what gives you the right to question me about anything? I personally have never spoken to you on here but all I see is you stirring up controversy why don't you and box go start your own site and leave this one alone.

[ThePlayerOnTheOtherSide]

Just curious what gives you the right to question me about anything? I personally have never spoken to you on here but all I see is you stirring up controversy why don't you and box go start your own site and leave this one alone.

LOL I'm not questioning you about anything dude, I am trying to point out to you that if you REALLY want to get this problem taken care of, you might want to talk to the people that can actually do something about it, instead of biting the heads off of anyone here that makes the mistake of trying to help you.

[Wise4671]

I didn't ask for help i however was pointing out that I think it is wrong for them to have done what they did and it doesn't help with building a good customer relationship. Actions like this will no doubt hurt there pre orders in the future.

[hedrap]

Most people here aren't buying a single item. I'd say it's at minimum 50+ so they could easily have 200 orders, equaling about to 100 per for 20K. So if it's not an accounts payable issue and since the date has shifted twice, FTC should have no problem either doing a full chargeback until October is guaranteed or eat the shipping cost. It's one thing to charge a receivable and be off by a week, it's another to be off by six weeks or more. Eat the shipping. Create some goodwill. If they don't, they'll see hesitancy on pre-orders going into the holidays.

[toyman]

I had actually talked to FTC on the phone last week and was told items would ship this week, it was a truck delay. If it's going to be October now it must have been a boat delay and that's hard to confuse with a truck delay, someone's made a BIG mistake or something larger. I agree with others at this point, just refund the CC's and be done with it till the product arrives, no more games. I will just wait and order from EE in the future even if I have to wait a little longer to make sure the items are actually in stock.