Angie Harmon as...The She-Hulk.

[johnmiic]

^^^ Your pic and link aren't working - at least they don't show up for me, (blue square w/question mark and the link says "forbidden").

If She-Hulk had been in the Avengers I have no doubt they would have gone the forced perspective/composite route. If they do She-Hulk in any Marvel film their first fear will be she looks too much like a female bodybuilder. They'll be afraid that look will turn audiences away. So if they do her motion capture and animate her she won't be muscular-probably not at all. Maybe in scenes where she really has to give whatever she's doing a lot of effort we'll see some muscles bulging. She's not overly muscular in the comics either. So they will probably film an actress for real.

Their second fear will be the dreaded uncanny valley which has thwarted films from Final Fantasy to Tin-Tin. The only really successful cgi- realistic character so far has been Gollum. I think people accepted him because he wasn't a good-guy but an emaciated, complex villain. He was not trying to be good-looking or heroic. People suspended their disbelief because they were distrustful of him and revolted by his appearance. A perfect way to turn the uncanny valley in your favor.

I wasn't impressed by the blue aliens in Avatar. They didn't look real to me but I gave it a pass because they were alien. When I see something alien I don't always question whether it's real enough. I realize Yoda was cgi in Attack and Revenge but it looks like Yoda from the `80's so I accepted it. I thought the green martians of John Carter were slightly better but still not quite real enough. The most chance for success is doing it forced perspective LOTR style. It would probably be cheaper and removes 2 big obstacles to making her believable. That could also allow for 1 actress to probably play both roles: Jen and She-Hulk.

"...at what point does the motion capture actress end and CG creation begin?" If they do it right we won't be able to tell and that would make it successful. The best effect is one that goes unnoticed.

[kingdom warrior]

...nevermind. Johnny said what I was trying to say better

[samurainoir]

They'll be afraid that look will turn audiences away. So if they do her motion capture and animate her she won't be muscular-probably not at all. Maybe in scenes where she really has to give whatever she's doing a lot of effort we'll see some muscles bulging. She's not overly muscular in the comics either. So they will probably film an actress for real.

But let's be realistic then... using this image of She-Hulk you provided as how she should look. Someone like this does not exist in nature quite readily, it's via John Byrne's scribblings that she comes to life, not photographed imagery. Now find a bodybuilder with this physique, and can she act? Does she have the box office recognition they need? Can a "name" actress that is bankable bulk up to this extent for this role without 'roids within a cycle of casting/shooting film schedule? One way or another, they are going the enhanced CG route, even if it's tweaking the Green and physique for those scenes you describe where she needs to demonstrate feats of strength. What you are describing will inevitably be CG motion capture no matter what, where the actress is walking around set with the suit with the little dot sensors at some point or another to pull off She Hulk doing action scenes.


Here is the link showing you that Angelina Jolie was definitely not filmed in the way you describe as "enhanced" for Beowulf. She was motion captured onto a digital creation. If you are using that as an example of how to do it, you are arguing FOR the CG motion capture route!

http://www.sliceofscifi.com/2005/11/08/jolie-dressed-to-the-9s-for-beowulf/

[kingdom warrior]

But let's be realistic then... using this image of She-Hulk you provided. Someone like this does not exist in nature quite readily, it's via John Byrne's scribblings that she comes to life, not photographed imagery. Now find a bodybuilder with this physique, and can she act? Can a "name" actress that is bankable bulk up to this extent for this role without 'roids within a cycle of casting/shooting film schedule?

You have a better chance of finding an unknown actress trying to break in who can carry the part that's why you would have a nation wide search.....I know a few Female Body builders who are very beautiful and are roid free. it's not impossible to find someone who's trying to break into Hollywood......Getting a know actress is harder to pull off She-Hulks look

[johnmiic]

But let's be realistic then... using this image of She-Hulk you provided as how she should look. Someone like this does not exist in nature quite readily, it's via John Byrne's scribblings that she comes to life, not photographed imagery.

I disagree. There are fitness models that look a lot like that. I don't know if they can act but certainly a name actress can get fit and not have to get too muscular to look close to that. I don't consider that art very muscular. Defined perhaps but not really muscular. If Angie Harmon were outfitted in the costume I think she would come pretty close to that art. She might be too thin even and have to add some weight but I doubt they would require her to muscle-up.

Can a "name" actress that is bankable bulk up to this extent for this role without 'roids within a cycle of casting/shooting film schedule?

Well Chris Reeve did it for Superman in 1977. Dave Prowse trained him. It's entirely possible to workout for a role. I don't think any actress will have to bulk up to play She-Hulk tho. Adrienne Palicki wasn't required to when she made the Wonder Woman pilot. I seriously don't think the studio will require it for fear the actress won't be attractive to male audience members. To a studio muscular women = no profit. Most men are turned off by muscular women. Ask Hector. I've discussed this with him and he won't budge. I recall TV guide running articles on Lucy Lawless and Peta Wilson doing basic exercise regimens for their TV/action character roles years ago. They didn't bulk up. I also recall the muscle magazines chiding those actresses for not really working out for the roles.

One way or another, they are going the enhanced CG route, even if it's tweaking the Green and physique for those scenes you describe where she needs to demonstrate feats of strength. What you are describing will inevitably be CG motion capture no matter what, where the actress is walking around set with the suit with the little dot sensors at some point or another to pull off She Hulk doing action scenes...Here is the link showing you that Angelina Jolie was definitely not filmed in the way you describe as "enhanced" for Beowulf. She was motion captured onto a digital creation. If you are using that as an example of how to do it, you are arguing FOR the CG motion capture route!

Not necessarily. Enhanced doesn't mean full-on Motion Capture like what your link shows. You don't need Motion Capture to tweak colors. That might be more Digital Grading. If they go TLOR rout they will resize without needing motion capture. Close-ups of her muscles could be a stand in or stunt/body double. Can a close-up of a cgi arm be better than a close-up of a real arm? It depends on what they need for the shot. I bet a director would usually defer to using a real arm in the shot if it can be photographed well-again depending on what they want to depict or what the script requires. The non-success of Beowulf seems to weigh in against using that process in future films. Jolie was gorgeous and those shots looked nearly flawless to me. I thought of all the actors that she was the least computer generated but Jolie's nude scenes sure didn't fill seats in the theaters.

So again, I don't think so. Any process which makes the actress look less attractive will worry the studio. If they do a cgi She-Hulk they will worry she will look fake and that will translate as loss of profit. Marvel tried 2 HULK films and both failed to capture audiences. Many blame the all-cgi HULK. I love the cgi HULK in Avengers but it's a small part of a bigger film.

[johnmiic]

For the sake of the discussion-fitness and female bodybuilders with a similar physique. Paint 'em green and composite them and alter their size digitally. No cgi necessary:

Debbie Kruck



Tho muscular these women are still very good looking. No studio would ever hire them as lead, or probably a supporting role or even require a name actress to get this muscular:

Rebekka Armstrong, former Playmate. Gina Davis has the right look, (face), and body.



Sharon Burneau-former bodybuilder.



Nicole Ball, (not Nicole Bass).



Melissa Coates when she was younger and not as big as now.



Jennifer Abrams, this is very much like a John Byrne pose. Also Karen Zembra.



Skye Ryland



Nursel Gurler, only 5'5", shorter than me and she looks bulky enough to play She-Hulk. She's quite voluptuous, from Turkey and her looks are nearly mainstream. She could make a believable Wonder Woman.

[samurainoir]

^^^
but can they act? It's not quite the Hollywood a-list you've got there. The casting of the Marvel movies thus far has been very deliberate in terms of potential spinoff with a name actor attached to all characters like Hawkeye, Black Widow, War Machine, Nick Fury, etc., and I can see that trend continuing. They are pretty risk averse these days, and you can see their formula quite clearly through a half dozen movies now. Jennifer Garner as Jen Walters, and as She Hulk via motion capture CG would clearly be the choice of a Hollywood exec over an unknown bodybuilder.

I know what your personal choice would be, but just look at what they have done previously to see what they are most likely going to do next. If they go your forced perspective route, terrific if it works because there is more than one way to skin a cat. I just think they will go the other way unless you get a director that really would be comitted to a non CG method, and casting an unknown against all the objections of the money people. Do you really think for example that Joss Whedon would pass up hiring Eliza Dishku or Felecia Day in favour of Nursel Gurler?

Also, You cast a body builder... That person can't play Jen Walters unless you do the CG thing like Captain America anyways. So you're back to where you started in he first place, so why not start with Jen Walters As a bankable name and composite a She Hulk instead?

[Mikey]

Some of them look like men --- even on the face

[johnmiic]

^^^
but can they act? It's not quite the Hollywood a-list you've got there.

I posted them to compare to the John Byrne art. Physically they come pretty close to what he drew. They would never hire any of these women in an a-list film. They probably can't act but a main-stream actress could work out to look like them physically. Debbie Kruck, Sharon Burneau, Nursel Gurler appear to be off-season in these shots anyway. That means they are nowhere near as ripped as they would be if they were prepping for a contest. Yet they still retain a lot of muscle definition.

I know what your personal choice would be, but just look at what they have done previously to see what they are most likely going to do next. If they go your forced perspective route, terrific if it works because there is more than one way to skin a cat.

It's all about having the actress identified with the character and using the real actresses face. I think a director would favor the Hobbit method of resize and composite because there isn't a huge disconnect as you would get with an all cgi character. Also the actor wants their face associated with the character-like Tobey McGuire removing his mask so often in the Spider-Man films. Depending on who is cast the actress might want her real face out there and not a cgi version.

Some of them look like men --- even on the face

Far from it Mike. Female bodybuilders train for zero fat and that means they lose the rounder, cushy, fat in their faces. It takes a toll on them if they train for too many years but if their muscles were covered with regular clothes and you saw them on the street I don't think it would phase you as much.

[bobws]

No i agree with mike, most are too masculine. Shehulk while muscular under Byrne's pencil always still seemed feminine.

[Earth 2 Chris]

Yep. Most are too mannish. I've always thought most female bodybuilders looked like men.

Of the women you posted, only Mellisa Coates still looks feminine enough to pull of Shulkie.

Chris

[johnmiic]

^^^Melissa Coates used to retain her pretty face despite working out. However she has seriously bulked up over the years and and may have had plastic surgery on her face. She doesn't look the same as she did.

Melissa Coates then...



Melissa Coates now-tho she looks a bit like Supergirl-Laura Vandervoot.

[johnmiic]

Angie Harmon, She-Hulk.

[ironman1188]

Angie Harmon is delusional if she thinks she would get that part...she has no big Box office appeal and no producer would give her that part........plus she's 5'9 and 39 years old....she's too old for the part and not tall enough

Ruffalo is 45 and I never heard of him prior to the Avengers. Harmon could work. And, despite what we think, they'll CGI the She-Hulk anyway.

[TMANSTOYS]

Here is a good pick ....shannon elizabeth ... Thought she should have played daisy duke instead of jessica simpson. She would make a good she hulk. Found this pic with a ww suit on. [ATTACH=CONFIG]1076[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]1077[/ATTACH]