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  • jwyblejr
    galactic yo-yo
    • Apr 6, 2006
    • 11141

    #31
    Originally posted by RussG
    In the Empire Strikes Back when Vader is talking to the Holograph Emperor and they talk about turning Luke to the dark side ... but in the new films it says there can only be two Sith a master and an apprentice. ... So either Darth is willing to die, (but we all know he wants to be the master and Luke become his apprentice) So what gets me is the Emperor thinking it's a good idea to turn Luke ???, unless he's really is stupid and thinks Vader is willing to die?????? lol

    I just find it funny becasue I'm sure it's just a flaw from OT not fitting 100% right with PT, but it could also work as just more of the Emperor's ego showing.

    Actually,Palpatine is a mean s.o.b. if you think about it. He had Anakin kill Dooku with no regrets just to have a new apprentice. With what happened in ESB he's probably thinking to himself"Yeah,I'll get Luke to kill Vader and have myself a new apprentice who doesn't look like something from KFC. And if that doesn't work,Vader will kill this snot nosed brat and I'll have one less problem to deal with." He's so arrogant,he's not thinking about option three,one of those two killing him instead.

    Comment

    • Bo8a_Fett
      Pat Troughton in disguise
      • Nov 21, 2007
      • 3738

      #32
      Overlooking the flaws is a fundemental part of being a fan of something...anyone that knows me will tell you how much of a fan I can be( I LOOOVE THE STAR WARS)...but i'm willing to listen to other peoples criticisms as it can create a stimulating debate. I personally hate it in some war movies when they use the wrong type of armoured vehicle or aircraft, but it doesn't detract too much from my enjoyment of the movie.
      I hate the fact that Han shoots first and there are nigling flaws (Jabba's missing/extra fingers etc) but on the whole love the movies, EU, toys, comics...everything....its what makes us fans...Knowledge can help educate and change the opinions of people "not in the Know", which is why so many fans devour all and sundry about our beloved subjects.
      There will always be people that dislike the object of your devotion just as you proberly dislike something someone else adores ( I am not a fan of Friends for example), and that is why debate sometimes springs up...God forbid if someone posts they hate Mego though...they would get a knife to the eye...as Frankie would eloquantly say.
      ENGLISH AND DAMN PROUD OF IT British by birth....English by the grace of God. Yes Jamie...it is big isn't it....

      Comment

      • johnmiic
        Adrift
        • Sep 6, 2002
        • 8427

        #33
        It's not that we don't love Star Wars or Lucas as an artist but the technology makes it so easy it's sort'a like the Orwellian fear of controlling and distorting information. Granted this is an entertainment subject, ( because political and religious speech are vebotten on these boards-Orwellian indeed! ) but the fact that so many people can complain about these changes in ST & SW seems to confirm if it aint broken-don't fix it.

        Comment

        • Vortigern99
          Scholar/Gentleman/Weirdo
          • Jul 2, 2006
          • 1539

          #34
          I have to stick my head in here and thank del for writing out her long list of well-considered rebuttals to the common problems people -- casual viewers and fans alike -- have with the STAR WARS films. As a moderator at theforce.net message boards, I see and participate in discussions of this kind ad absurdium. Ultimately I've concluded two things: One, you can talk yourself in or out of any perceived plot-hole or flaw in the films; and two, such perceived flaws are purely subjective, varying wildly from one person to another. My thinking is that it takes imagination to see a plot-hole; why not use those same faculties of imagination to devise an explanation?

          Comment

          • huedell
            Museum Ball Eater
            • Dec 31, 2003
            • 11069

            #35
            It's not that we don't love Star Wars or Lucas as an artist but the technology makes it so easy it's sort'a like the Orwellian fear of controlling and distorting information. Granted this is an entertainment subject, ( because political and religious speech are vebotten on these boards-Orwellian indeed! ) but the fact that so many people can complain about these changes in ST & SW seems to confirm if it aint broken-don't fix it.
            What it confirms (to me) is that the Net is full of anal fans who won't accept, even in
            the face of the success of the new trilogy and SPECIAL EDITIONS of the old one
            is that if it ain't broke don't fix it----or (in this case) don't whine about it

            Misinformation?----with respect, I know you gave yourself an "out" by acknowledging
            that its "entertainment", but I still can't buy the resentment and hostility
            from the purist STAR WARS fans with the redos---its only a movie---and if you ONLY like
            the old versions of the movies...well... then just watch those.

            In other words...why waste your time picking apart the new edited/enhanced versions
            when you have the old ones readily available? (i.e. live & let live)

            One, you can talk yourself in or out of any perceived plot-hole or flaw in the films; and two, such perceived flaws are purely subjective, varying wildly from one person to another. My thinking is that it takes imagination to see a plot-hole; why not use those same faculties of imagination to devise an explanation?
            Amen Vortigern----and regarding stuff like the Greedo/Han thing---a
            thing that unlike 99% of the other stuff is really "unexplainable"----here's
            a suggestion in the face of that one (seemingly) unfortunate Lucas tweak: "live with it"
            Last edited by huedell; Jan 2, '08, 1:01 PM.
            "No. No no no no no no. You done got me talkin' politics. I didn't wanna'. Like I said y'all, I'm just happy to be alive. I think I'll scoot over here right by this winda', let this beautiful carriage rock me to sleep, and dream about how lucky I am." - Chris Mannix

            Comment

            • johnmiic
              Adrift
              • Sep 6, 2002
              • 8427

              #36
              Originally posted by huedell
              Misinformation?----with respect, I know you gave yourself an "out" by acknowledging that its "entertainment", but I still can't buy the resentment and hostility from the purist STAR WARS fans with the redos---its only a movie---and if you ONLY like the old versions of the movies...well... then just watch those.

              In other words...why waste your time picking apart the new edited/enhanced versions when you have the old ones readily available? (i.e. live & let live)
              Well I am not getting too worked up about this so don't read this thinking I am whining or yelling at everyone. As you say if it's only a movie why defend the special editions? They are not original but revisionist. I don't think picking out the mistakes are subjective either. A mistake is a mistake. Anyone can recognize that story logic is compromised when previously it was not. Even before the advent of DVD the originals were re-released on special VHS 3 packs, ( SW, ESB & ROTJ), with the slogan 'available one last time." Lucas made his intent clear that he would phase out the original un-altered versions and replace them with special editions. If you didn't buy those or have not kept your old VHS's and a working VHS player you are out of luck. You won't find them at most video stores either as they have gone DVD. VHS is a dinosaur now. unless you shelled out money on the VHS's and kept them in good shape you can't watch the originals. Many people tossed their VHS's expecting good DVD quality transfers.

              The original, unaltered SW films are available on the latest DVD releases as a sort of 2 pack. The originals included are only available in this 2-fer format and are only transfers of the versions done for laser-disc and not re-scanned negatives for superior DVD quality. There are no singular, high-quality, un-special editions on DVD in circulation as singular releases. Unless you fork over more cash for something you already owned you can't even see the laser-disc transfers. If you don't have the original you cannot enjoy it or even make that comparison.

              Lucas said he wanted to restore lost footage that he felt should have been included in the original Star Wars and replace bad spfx with better quality spfx in certain places. This is not true. What is being done here is the films are being changed years after they are made and the changes continue to occur. There seems to be no end to the changes being made to these films. For example the Han/Jabba scene is restored using the creature Jabba Lucas intended instead of the Scottish actor from the original footage. Boba Fett is in the scene tho he was never in SW. Boba Fett was introduced in an animated short in the SW Holiday Special. Lucasfilm does not even acknowledge the existence of this made for tv bomb. It is a cheat to do this.

              We don't need Boba Fett introduced in SW. We can accept him in ESB without knowledge of the cartoon. So why make the change? It is unecessary. How about the replacement of the Emperor in ESB? Dialogue is changed and as pointed out in this thread it makes no logical sense. Contradictions occur because the rule, there can be only 2 Sith, no more, no less, was never part of the original trilogy. Add it in to the other films and it creates glaring holes in story logic. Why should Vader seek to turn Luke to the Dark side if it means his own death? It plain bad story logic. So what we have here is a pattern developing where embarassing mistakes are covered up creating even more mistakes which are even more embarassing. Misinformation is put out and liberties are taken with the material when changes need not be made.

              Now this is entertainment. Should we really be such sticklers. Maybe we should. Just because we have this sort of Choose Your Own Adventure version of Star Wars Films does not improve them at all. What was of a certain quality is now being dragged down to lower quality. Should we just let this go...? The answer is most certainly no.
              Last edited by johnmiic; Jan 2, '08, 2:03 PM.

              Comment

              • huedell
                Museum Ball Eater
                • Dec 31, 2003
                • 11069

                #37
                As you say if it's only a movie why defend the special editions?
                I have an answer for that I feel quite strongly about...

                To me it makes more sense to say something is "good" ( see, I LIKE the SEs)
                and to add that if you don't like that given thing ----then don't watch it--
                --than to complain about "revisionist" tactics, which (again) you aren't forced to watch.

                The fact that Lucas has been inaccurate about his business plans?
                Well, I think the fanboys of the world have to accept that's the world
                of business, or accept "reality" or whatever you wanna call it--
                --certainly 30-somethings should know this by now
                -----either way----the originals are/were available by hook or by crook at any time

                Now this is entertainment. Should we really be such sticklers.
                I don't believe so...
                Not when your opinion doesn't change the fact that we ALL have we want to
                watch at our fingertips.

                Just because we have this sort of Choose Your Own Adventure version of Star
                Wars Films does not improve them at all.
                Well, (with respect) not only is that at the LEAST your "opinion"----it could be seen as
                a "false statement" as its been proven that STAR WARS fans like myself do indeed
                see the changes as "improvements"
                "No. No no no no no no. You done got me talkin' politics. I didn't wanna'. Like I said y'all, I'm just happy to be alive. I think I'll scoot over here right by this winda', let this beautiful carriage rock me to sleep, and dream about how lucky I am." - Chris Mannix

                Comment

                • Vortigern99
                  Scholar/Gentleman/Weirdo
                  • Jul 2, 2006
                  • 1539

                  #38
                  Regarding johnmiic's excoriation of the Emperor/Vader/Rule of Two/Sith apprentice scenario, it actually makes completely logical sense, once you take all the pieces out and examine them closely. Here it is broken down for simplicity's sake:

                  1. The Emperor wants to replace Vader with Luke (because Vader is a machine-man and not as powerful as Anakin once was)
                  2. Vader wants to replace the Emperor himself and rule the Galaxy, with Luke as his apprentice (Vader makes this offer to Luke in ESB in no uncertain terms)
                  3. Both Vader and the Emperor know the other's intentions, as these accord with the Rule of Two (one master, one apprentice)
                  4. Vader stops Luke from killing the Emperor in ROTJ because /Vader/ must be the one to do it, in order to take the Emperor's place as Sith Master
                  5. Luke does not turn to the dark side, foiling the two Sith's plans for knocking each other off
                  6. The Emperor falls back on Plan B: Kill Luke and keep the machine-man Vader as his apprentice
                  7. Vader has a moment of doubt, decides that he loves Luke, and Anakin (his good side) is reborn within him. This abrogates all Sithly contracts, as he proves by destroying the Emperor with no ulterior motive but saving his son.

                  Comment

                  • huedell
                    Museum Ball Eater
                    • Dec 31, 2003
                    • 11069

                    #39
                    Again, I thank you Vortigern (as I did del earlier) for having the patience
                    to do what I think is a waste of my time

                    Your Sith explanation makes pefect sense and aside from the (delicious)
                    idea that VADER must be the one to kill the Emperor to fufill his vision
                    of The Sith...well, I felt the exact same way. Nice articulation. Very.
                    "No. No no no no no no. You done got me talkin' politics. I didn't wanna'. Like I said y'all, I'm just happy to be alive. I think I'll scoot over here right by this winda', let this beautiful carriage rock me to sleep, and dream about how lucky I am." - Chris Mannix

                    Comment

                    • johnmiic
                      Adrift
                      • Sep 6, 2002
                      • 8427

                      #40
                      Originally posted by Vortigern99
                      Regarding johnmiic's excoriation of the Emperor/Vader/Rule of Two/Sith apprentice scenario, it actually makes completely logical sense, once you take all the pieces out and examine them closely. Here it is broken down for simplicity's sake:

                      1. The Emperor wants to replace Vader with Luke (because Vader is a machine-man and not as powerful as Anakin once was)
                      2. Vader wants to replace the Emperor himself and rule the Galaxy, with Luke as his apprentice (Vader makes this offer to Luke in ESB in no uncertain terms)
                      3. Both Vader and the Emperor know the other's intentions, as these accord with the Rule of Two (one master, one apprentice)
                      4. Vader stops Luke from killing the Emperor in ROTJ because /Vader/ must be the one to do it, in order to take the Emperor's place as Sith Master
                      5. Luke does not turn to the dark side, foiling the two Sith's plans for knocking each other off
                      6. The Emperor falls back on Plan B: Kill Luke and keep the machine-man Vader as his apprentice
                      7. Vader has a moment of doubt, decides that he loves Luke, and Anakin (his good side) is reborn within him. This abrogates all Sithly contracts, as he proves by destroying the Emperor with no ulterior motive but saving his son.
                      Again I am not slamming anyone here but it doesn't make complete and logical sense. The flaw in that argument is point #3. As RussG points out The Emperor tells/discusses with Vader, turning Luke to the Dark Side. That's pretty much like, for example, telling your employee to their face, we have to hire that young kid so I can replace you, and you're gonna help me do it, when they know replace = kill. There's no reason for Vader to serve the Emperor if he was hgoing to be thrown away like a used kleenex. It violates common sense just like horror films where dumb teenagers walk into obvious death traps and are killed. Also it's sloppy writing to have a gaff like that and expect people to work it out themselves after the film.

                      When Vader told Luke in ESB they could defeat the Emperor and take over themselves- why would anyone really believe what he said? Vader was not a trust-worthy character so I doubt the audience even thought he was telling the truth when he said he was Luke's father. It was the possibility of that statement which enthralled moviegoers until ROTJ came out; not the certainty of it.

                      When the films were still un-altered and the Emperor tells Luke in ROTJ, kill Vader, kill your own father, so you can take your place beside me as my apperentice. That was a revelation! A major plot-twist. All the while we assumed he would have Vader and Luke serving him. Now we see he's going to toss Vader. Vader didn't even see that coming in the un-altered versions of the films. The Emperor was not officially staing this Rule of Two in ROTJ. No one suspected or thought Vader would be dispensed with by the Emperor- ever-because the Rule of Two was not written into the films yet. The Rule of Two was stated in Episode 1 and produced noticable groans from the audience; not necessarily devoted or even rabid fan-boys but moviegoers in general. It was nearly the same groan heard when Ben reveals Leia was Lukes sister, after they had kissed each other at least 2x's before. We all knew full well Luke was in love with the Princess. This was Du Ex Macchina for who should the Princess choose as a husband: Luke or Han. It was an easy way out.

                      Every time Lucas makes a change he convolutes the storyline even more and you have to step back and analyze it all to see if it makes sense. Certainly good films are thought provoking. Star Wars used to be thought provoking. I thought after Attack of the Clones he had returned the mystique to the saga. there were so many un-answered questions after Episode 2. Star Wars has descended to a point where you have to keep looking it over to see if it all makes sense whenever a change is made.
                      Last edited by johnmiic; Jan 2, '08, 5:23 PM.

                      Comment

                      • huedell
                        Museum Ball Eater
                        • Dec 31, 2003
                        • 11069

                        #41
                        Maybe Vortigern will address the flaws in your fault-finding there johnmiic

                        ---I disagree with most of what you pointed out but don't have the patience
                        to justify each thing I disagree with as, like Vortigern mentioned earlier,
                        you could actually do that yourself if you were so inclined---

                        However, I will address not agreeing with the idea of Luke & Leia being siblings
                        as an "easy way out" for Leia's hookup with Han when actually it was just the
                        product of a great plot twist.

                        You may "groan" at the fact that Luke's sister is Leia when its already
                        said that Vader is Luke's father----but you have to remember that
                        the same 6 hr. story was originally meant to be told in about 2 hours
                        and some things benefit from the 6 hr. telling and some things suffer from that---
                        ---i.e. The drama and buildup of Han vs. Luke for Leia's affections
                        was really that much better in a SIX hour telling when the audience is
                        "messed with" with a kiss etc. if Luke DIDN'T kiss Leia THAT would be a missed
                        opportunity for that buildup and inferior writing on Lucas' part
                        (or whoever is credited for the incestual scenarios) I think its a great aspect of the
                        STAR WARS story.
                        "No. No no no no no no. You done got me talkin' politics. I didn't wanna'. Like I said y'all, I'm just happy to be alive. I think I'll scoot over here right by this winda', let this beautiful carriage rock me to sleep, and dream about how lucky I am." - Chris Mannix

                        Comment

                        • jwyblejr
                          galactic yo-yo
                          • Apr 6, 2006
                          • 11141

                          #42
                          The Leia being Luke's sister never bother me. You sit and think about it,it makes sense. There was another,who else would it be? Han,Lando,someone else? You pretty much knew it was Leia at the end Of Empire. How else would she have heard Luke calling out to her if she didn't have the Force?

                          Comment

                          • Vortigern99
                            Scholar/Gentleman/Weirdo
                            • Jul 2, 2006
                            • 1539

                            #43
                            johnmiic, the logic of the thing is fully apparent only when you apply the Rule of Two as we now know it through the prequels. You are free to dismiss the idea if you like, based on your perception of audience groaning (which I must admit I missed in my 8 theatrical viewings of TPM, though they groaned aplenty at Jar Jar) or a lack of creative integrity, but I for one find it an intriguing sci-fi/fantasy concept. If you'll indulge my explication of the idea one last time, my hope is that you'll find a new angle on the material that you never saw before ... something that happens with me and STAR WARS almost every time I sit and contemplate some facet of it.

                            Originally posted by johnmiic
                            The Emperor tells/discusses with Vader, turning Luke to the Dark Side. That's pretty much like, for example, telling your employee to their face, we have to hire that young kid so I can replace you, and you're gonna help me do it, when they know replace = kill.
                            In both versions of the ESB scene with Vader and the Emperor, it is Vader --not the Emperor -- who suggests turning Luke. The Emperor hesitates for a moment (again in both versions) and agrees this is the way to go. If you imagine an unspoken undercurrent here -- that both men want to use Luke to replace the other -- it becomes plain that each is appeasing the other while proceeding with a plan to depose the other -- a plan each man must be aware of. They proceed with this mutual deception because they need each other; the Emperor needs Vader to do his bidding and marshall his forces, and Vader needs the Emperor to administer the political machinery of the government, which as a warrior Vader is not equipped to do.

                            Originally posted by johnmiic
                            There's no reason for Vader to serve the Emperor if he was going to be thrown away like a used kleenex.
                            Vader tells Luke in ROTJ: "I must obey my master." There is some powerful dark side compulsion, which we are not given to fully understand, driving Vader to do Palpatine's bidding. Moreover, since Vader's plan is to depose the Emperor, it only makes sense that he would continue to serve his master until the time is right to strike. Yet when not in the Emperor's direct sight, Vader plots with Luke to join together and overthrow the Emperor (the same offer Vader makes to Padme in ROTS). Vader is utterly sincere in this offer, as his previous offer to his wife (and the sheer passion of his vocal delivery) make plain. (BTW, as a 10-year old kid in 1980 I utterly believed Vader when he revealed himself as Luke's father, for two reasons: His vocal delivery, which was obviously sincere, and Luke searching his feelings and calling Vader "Father" when the Sith lord contacts him on the Falcon. Irvin Kershner, the film's director, has said that of all the people he's talked to about the movie, children below a certain age, about 9, always thought Vader was lying, but kids of a certain level of maturity, and most adults, knew Vader was telling the truth.)

                            So, while both Vader and the Emperor are aware of the others' plans, they continue on course with this secret agenda mostly unspoken. However, at one point the Emperor's plans are made clear, when he tells Luke: "Strike me down with all of your anger, and take your father's place at my side!"

                            So in the first place we have Vader making the offer for Luke to kill the Emperor, join Vader and rule the galaxy together; and in the second we have the Emperor insisting that Luke replace Vader and join him at his side. What other answer could there be that reconciles these two opposing agendas? This is the Rule of Two in perfect completion.

                            To conclude, when Luke strikes at the Emperor, Vader blocks the blow for a number of reasons: Because Luke is not ready to turn to the dark side (as the novelization states), and a single act of killing the Emperor would not turn him yet; because Vader must still appear to be doing his duty to protect the Emperor, while he awaits the proper moment to kill the Master himself; and, possibly (though this last element is only my theory) because Vader must kill the Emperor himself if he, and not Luke, is to become the Sith Master.

                            I invite anyone to disagree and continue in their opinion that the films are increasingly flawed and confused, a jumbled mess of incompetent writing, but having analyzed them in depth, researched their origins in myth and archetype, and read commentaries and interviews by the creators stretching back into my childhood, I can say with conviction that the original three movies' internal consistency utterly stands up to scrutiny. (I agree Leia's last-minute redo as Luke's sister is an obvious ploy at dovetailing the character arcs, but ultimately I think it works.)

                            Originally posted by johnmiic
                            Again I am not slamming anyone here but it doesn't make complete and logical sense. The flaw in that argument is point #3. As RussG points out The Emperor tells/discusses with Vader, turning Luke to the Dark Side. That's pretty much like, for example, telling your employee to their face, we have to hire that young kid so I can replace you, and you're gonna help me do it, when they know replace = kill. There's no reason for Vader to serve the Emperor if he was hgoing to be thrown away like a used kleenex. It violates common sense just like horror films where dumb teenagers walk into obvious death traps and are killed. Also it's sloppy writing to have a gaff like that and expect people to work it out themselves after the film.

                            When Vader told Luke in ESB they could defeat the Emperor and take over themselves- why would anyone really believe what he said? Vader was not a trust-worthy character so I doubt the audience even thought he was telling the truth when he said he was Luke's father. It was the possibility of that statement which enthralled moviegoers until ROTJ came out; not the certainty of it.

                            When the films were still un-altered and the Emperor tells Luke in ROTJ, kill Vader, kill your own father, so you can take your place beside me as my apperentice. That was a revelation! A major plot-twist. All the while we assumed he would have Vader and Luke serving him. Now we see he's going to toss Vader. Vader didn't even see that coming in the un-altered versions of the films. The Emperor was not officially staing this Rule of Two in ROTJ. No one suspected or thought Vader would be dispensed with by the Emperor- ever-because the Rule of Two was not written into the films yet. The Rule of Two was stated in Episode 1 and produced noticable groans from the audience; not necessarily devoted or even rabid fan-boys but moviegoers in general. It was nearly the same groan heard when Ben reveals Leia was Lukes sister, after they had kissed each other at least 2x's before. We all knew full well Luke was in love with the Princess. This was Du Ex Macchina for who should the Princess choose as a husband: Luke or Han. It was an easy way out.

                            Every time Lucas makes a change he convolutes the storyline even more and you have to step back and analyze it all to see if it makes sense. Certainly good films are thought provoking. Star Wars used to be thought provoking. I thought after Attack of the Clones he had returned the mystique to the saga. there were so many un-answered questions after Episode 2. Star Wars has descended to a point where you have to keep looking it over to see if it all makes sense whenever a change is made.

                            Comment

                            • starsky
                              veteran member
                              • Aug 26, 2007
                              • 6200

                              #44
                              wow!! i'm impressed with the analysis!! great job guys and to think all this discussion started with hec askin why lucas didnt have ewan/obi wan in the pic with young anakin. i'm going to have to check out the dvds again!

                              Comment

                              • DocDrako
                                Formerly Doc Drako
                                • Nov 11, 2004
                                • 2813

                                #45
                                I just wanted to say that I wasn't trying to slam Star Wars when I made my comments. I'm a huge fan and have been since 1977. There was a time when I would get very angry if anyone said anything bad about Star Wars. But as I've gotten older, and Star Wars has always been a part of my life, it has become almost like a friend. I know that sounds odd, but what I mean is that I poke fun at Star Wars, and sometimes make fun of it or mock it because I really do love it. Much like someone might poke fun at a friend. Just because you give a friend a hard time doesn't mean that you don't like them. Only Star Wars is a movie franchise and not a real person. (I'm not that far gone yet )

                                I love all of the movies, all versions to some extent, the original trilogy more than the prequels, and the original versions more than the special editions. But the fact is, I love Star Wars in all it's forms. Why else would I force myself to rewatch the Holiday Special time and again in an attempt to learn to like it? By the way, I still can't watch it all at once, but I try.

                                I realize that Leia really didn't "always know" that Luke was her brother. It was the dialogue that I was making fun of. I find fault with stuff in Star Wars, but I really do love it. I'm in the pro-Star Wars camp. There might be some flaws, but over all, I think the Star Wars series is top notch. Great points on all the nitpicking too, everyone. Great explanations. And that comment is guaranteed 100% sarcasm free!



                                But why did Lucas have to establish that Yoda knew Chewbacca?

                                "I prefer to remain an enigma."

                                DRAKO'S GOOD TRADERS LIST

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