Final Thoughts on Day2Day

[jimsmegos]

Wow, it's amazing what all can happen when you put your opinion out there for all the world to see. Honestly I'm flattered that anyone was paying attention at all. As promised I did some digging, made a call, and received a call or two and have come to a conclusion... here it is kids. Please don't throw rocks.

When playtime gets seriouss Toy Box

[Mego Magyar]

A classy post. IMHO

[Fuzzysnail]

Wow, quite a turn around.

[David Lee]

Wow, quite a turn around.

That's cool Jim; I know you have a Journalistic view to this. You don't know all of the facts, and we have purposely not chimed in to avoid any more entanglement with this scam artist. I think if you knew what we knew you may see things differently (maybe we can discuss it off-line). If you recall it was not us who outed Mr. Jeff and Day2Day as the perpetrators, it was by his own admission on his website that it was made known. We only wanted our moulds back and to keep them from being shopped via the Museum to other people.

Jim, you get to look at both sides and weigh things from a different perspective, and have to rely on the facts you are given. For me it's personal, and I know for a fact we got scammed, flat out scammed. Our moulds, that Tony Jeff claims were destroyed were shopped to a long time Museum friend here very recently, by another Museum member. This is a fact. We asked Mr. Jeff not to produce anything on our behalf, he has admitted making things without our approval, and we have e-mail to prove it. This is a fact. This is not the first time Mr. Jeff has done this and expected us to pick up the tab. Again, this is a fact. I know three other highly respected toy companies that have all had the same dis-service and intimidation by this dirtbag and independent of each other’s dealings. Statistically this is impossible, unless he's the one promulgating a similar scam each time.
In the end I appreciate what you are trying to do. Just remember this, if the person on the other end is lying, fabricating and promulgating a scam you will never know the truth (from his perspective). We however, know what has happened to us and others and it’s all fact without speculation on our part.

You have seen in his own words, omissions and obfuscations and just plain buffoonary. In the end if he lied to me and others, he'll lie to you... that's what liars do. We want nothing to do with this guy, and we have made that clear by staying out of the fray. There are bigger legal, actions taking place against him and that's where we will back the play of others affected by Day2Day.

If all we do at the end of the day is keep him from scamming others, I consider that a win.
-Dave

[megozilla13]

Wow, it's amazing what all can happen when you put your opinion out there for all the world to see. Honestly I'm flattered that anyone was paying attention at all. As promised I did some digging, made a call, and received a call or two and have come to a conclusion... here it is kids. Please don't throw rocks.

When playtime gets seriouss Toy Box

The guys responses seem shady. What is day2day? just a middleman?

[drmego]

day2day is correct that, in order to test the conditioning work done
on the moulds, he had to run plastic through them. How many
pieces he had to produce depends on his machinery.

My factory told me once that if they run less than 3,000 boots,
it takes more material to clean out the machine than is used to
make the boots.

[gaga4toyz]

We never questioned the fact that product would need to be run on the molds to check the condition of them. We asked that nothing be produced until we worked out a formal ordering process. This process would include quotes, pictures, samples and other things that are a normal part of the way buisness's are run. We never got quotes, we were never told product was being run, we were never told how much product needed to be run, we never saw pictures of all our molds polished, we were never told up front what work needed to be done on the molds and what it would cost, we don't even know if the molds were fixed and polished. After we were told they ran items on the molds, our request for pictures of our product, and samples were refused. We were told to send money for product that we have no proof was ever made or our molds were going to be sold. Then we found out that while we were in talks about this allegedly made product, they were already trying to sell our molds.

[drmego]

I'm not siding with day2day - I just wanted to explain a little bit about
how factories work. It is uncommon for a factory to say you need
something done and not have at least an estimate of the cost ready.

[AcroRay]

We were told to send money for product that we have no proof was ever made or our molds were going to be sold.

Professional kidnappers like them should be prepared to provide 'proof of life'...

[johnmiic]

day2day is correct that, in order to test the conditioning work done on the moulds, he had to run plastic through them. How many pieces he had to produce depends on his machinery.

My factory told me once that if they run less than 3,000 boots, it takes more material to clean out the machine than is used to make the boots.

Interesting stuff.

Does that mean even if you are only testing the moulds they may have to run multiple thousands of an item?

If those test shots come out the way they should are they automatically considered sellable merchandise and is the owner expected to pay for that quantity?

Or do they recycle the plastic and run another batch to be sold?

[jimsmegos]

Interesting stuff.

Does that mean even if you are only testing the moulds they may have to run multiple thousands of an item?

If those test shots come out the way they should are they automatically considered sellable merchandise and is the owner expected to pay for that quantity?

Or do they recycle the plastic and run another batch to be sold?

You know, that's an excellent point. Many moons ago (damn near 20 years ago) I did some part time work at a plastic injection molding plant. It just now dawned on me that when it came to the reject pieces, flash and end run stuff we threw it in a chipper, turned it back into pellets and then it was reused.

Of course this process did affect the integrity of the plastic and the recycled plastic was indeed inferior to the first run, however if the issue is simply prepping the mold and simply testing them I can't see why the recycled plastic wouldn't be fine for that purpose, and then of course recycled again.

It's amazing the stuff your mind keeps stored away. It's even more amazing when you find yourself 20 years later needing to recall that information that you thought you would never use again. Crazy world.

[David Lee]

Our initial factory, was able to give us injected samples. They were test shot material, milky white, harder material, but plastic. Not only is Day2Days practice uncommon as Doc said, it was a departure from what we had previously experienced with Chinese Manufacturing... No legit business work this way... "I got product for you, now give me money, you can't see it you just have to trust me it's done and right and what you want"

Still boggles my mind.

-Dave

[johnmiic]

Thanks Jim, that was something I wondered about.

"...you can't see it you just have to trust me it's done and right and what you want"

-Dave

Do pictures, (digital I assume), really help you to inspect moulds? Is there enough resolution in pics to know moulds have been fixed and polished? If pics are sent to you how do you know they haven't been altered in some way to fool you?

[David Lee]

Thanks Jim, that was something I wondered about.




Do pictures, (digital I assume), really help you to inspect moulds? Is there enough resolution in pics to know moulds have been fixed and polished? If pics are sent to you how do you know they haven't been altered in some way to fool you?

It's like a mechanic taking a picture of your engine and telling you he fixed your car.... no really trust me

Dave

[AcroRay]

[double post]