David Prowse Banned from Celebration 5

[YANOULI]

He didn't speak any dialogue. He took instruction on how to pose and when to gesture for dialogue prompts. He didn't do ANYTHING.

That's not strictly true, he performed all Vaders lines in costume ( like Anthony Daniels did for C3PO ).
Although, whilst Daniels re-read his lines in post production Prowse was dubbed over.

[MIB41]

That's not strictly true, he performed all Vaders lines in costume ( like Anthony Daniels did for C3PO ).
Although, whilst Daniels re-read his lines in post production Prowse was dubbed over.

Well of course. But his vocal delivery was never intended for public consumption. Your talking about the mechanics of a shot before post production. His was merely a vocal queue for dubbing. James Earl Jones IS Darth Vader. His quality of voice and delivery is how we know the character. So the fame of Darth Vader is the voice and aesthetics of the costume, not who's wearing it.

[Mikey]

Well of course. But his vocal delivery was never intended for public consumption. Your talking about the mechanics of a shot before post production. His was merely a vocal queue for dubbing. James Earl Jones IS Darth Vader. His quality of voice and delivery is how we know the character. So the fame of Darth Vader is the voice and aesthetics of the costume, not who's wearing it.

I agree,
I'm going out on a limb here but ... It would be like asking WHO is the real Homer Simpson ? ... Dan Castellaneta or the Korean cartoonist who drew the animation cell ?

[palitoy]

Good point too! Thanks Palitoy. You know, I'm actually surprised Prowse is allowed to go to other conventions and sign Star Wars pictures if Lucas has banned him from all Star Wars related events. It seems to me, that ban would shut him down entirely. If he's signing a photo of Darth Vader that is use of the Star Wars image.

I'm not sure what he can and can't do. In the case of Moore and West, they were banned from appearing as the characters but they could still show up and sign images of themselves.

As far as I know, Prowse never shows up in costume and I'm not sure if you legally can block him from signing pictures. His site is actually having a "Darth Vader Sale" of $10 per picture right now. Lucas can't stop him from making appearances or a living (nor should he, the guy is entitled to make appearances and support himself) but he can probably curtail his involvement with licensed conventions like they are doing.

[YANOULI]

But his vocal delivery was never intended for public consumption.

He was under the impression it was.
It says he never knew that he'd been dubbed until he saw the film.

[apes3978]

That all may be true, but was David told by Lucas that he (Prowse as Vader) would been seen in the unveiling scene, or was he just told "Oh, in the next film, Vader's gonna be unmasked"... There is a difference...

The guy played a character in these films where his voice was not used and his face was completely covered by a mask. Of course, he wished they would have at least used his voice, but he was cool with it all for a while... Then, after "Empire", Lucas told him personally, that Vader would be unmasked in the next film. Dave was elated. His face would finally be seen after all this time.

Cut to: A year and a half later... They're shooting "Jedi" and on the day of shooting, director Richard Marquand pulls Prowse aside and he's told that Sebastian Shaw will be used for the unmasking scene and read the dialog for Anakin Skywalker.

That's a true story. Put yourself in the guy's shoes... That's a pretty cruel thing to do, especially given how much he was looking forward to doing that scene.

[MIB41]

He was under the impression it was.
It says he never knew that he'd been dubbed until he saw the film.

I understand and respect what you are saying. But what Prowse assumed and what fans never heard did not make him famous. What he makes money off of, is being the guy who wore a costume on a famous film. People want to shake his hand because HE wore the costume. But the performance they know and fell in love with belongs to James Earl Jones. That vocal quality IS the character. Can you imagine Darth Vader with Prowse' voice? Nope. So the point to all of this is Prowse should be a very humble guy about the fact he has never had to worry about a paycheck since he was asked to throw on a costume for a film no one thought would make any money at that time. I think that worked out pretty good for him, don't you think?

[AcroRay]

I met Mr. Prowse at a comicon in Pittsburgh probably in about '93. I was a bit shocked that I had to pay $25 a pop for autographs on two figures I brought with me (one for me, and one for a friend in Italy who supplied me with Micronauti), especially since that's pretty much all the money I had with me. But the money was at least partially going to an arthritis charity, according to the program book. I hadn't really had to do that before.

He seemed a little on the cold side, but polite. There weren't many people at the show because the weather was bad, and he was in a wheelchair due to issues with his own arthritic condition, and I suspected he was probably hurting. (Signing a figure package with a big blister in his hand's way seemed a bit of a challenge.) He did warm up to my wife a bit, when she mentioned she remembered him from Clockwork Orange, and how it was another world-classic film he was in, and she mentioned she was having some physical issues because of the climate as well (due to some physical injuries she has). He even mentioned to her he was looking forward to a new treatment he was scheduled for.

But he was one of the less-social of the folks I've encountered at fan shows like that, and that was before the whole Star Wars revival that seems to have largely left him behind and opened a lot of old wounds. I can imagine he might be a pretty prickly pear at a show with all that on his mind and his physical issues. Still, anyone coming to his table probably is fully aware of Prowse's place in our cultural history, and at least thinks well enough of him for an autograph on the character he portrayed that he's otherwise been excised from by Lucasfilm. That at least deserves some mutual respect and appreciation.

It wasn't the most bubbly of encounters, but I do treasure the Vader figure he autographed (even though his signature is upside down) - 'to Ray', since I had no intention of ever re-selling it. As much as James Earl Jones, I consider Prowse to be the actor inside of my favorite Star Wars character, and you can always tell when a shot of Vader *isn't* him. And Prowse is much more accessible than Jones. When he came back a few years later I was actually going to bring my original Don Post Vader hard plastic mask to him - which I'd had since childhood - for him to sign. Unfortunately, we couldn't go due to finances.

[ScottA]

If he's such a pain in the asking or hates Lucas et. all, then why would he even do or be asked to do conventions all the years? You'd think he'd decline or no one would bother asking him. Oh, wait. Yea, money.

[spamn]

It's funny. There are fans of the Friday the 13th series who hate when Jason isn't played by Kane Hodder. There is such a thing as a physical performance, and it's entirely possible for one person to give a better one than another, even without spoken lines, even following cues from a director.

Is David Prowse one of those people? I suspect not. But to completely dismiss him despite all the screen time Vader had strikes me as a little unfair.

Now Jeremy Bullock (Boba Fett)? I'm pretty sure his contribution is more like you describe.

But Vader was a key player in all three films, and Prowse was the guy that did it and deserves some props for it. Of course, I'm pretty sure Peter Mayhew didn't get crazy Star Wars money either, and the same can be said of his performance.

[toys2cool]

I've always heard he was a jerk

[Mikey]

He's like any Museum guy who pushes the limit until they're finally banned.

Prowse had 30 years to mellow out and he still never did.

If it wasn't for Lucas and Star Wars he wouldn't even be known today.

When most people think of Hammer they think of just Cushing and Lee.

[Lonestarhobbies]

I had the pleasure of meeting Prowse back in the mid 90's...and he was pleasant to me.

Now, I did meet Temura Morrison (Jango Fett) and that guy was a complete ***. I swear to God, this Dbag literally ran over my wife in an aisle (slammed directly into her from behind) then rudely trodded on down the aisle. His handlers also bumped into me and nearly knocked a huge box of vintage Star Wars ships and parts out of my arms-----did we even hear a single "Sorry"?? Hell no....

I still shelled out the $35 I think it was for his autograph because I'd come there for one for me (signed to Brian) and one for a friend online. I so badly wanted to thank him for being such a Dbag after I had my signatures....but I said screw it.....

[samurainoir]

It always seemed a bit deluded when Prowse states in interviews that the the change to James Earl Jones' voice for Vader was racially motivated.

I think hearing his voice as Vader compared to Jones, pretty much sums up the reality of the situation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSm9DDxQv8E

I believe Threepio is a good example of the opposite happening. Where they never originally initially intended to have a robot with a british accent, it was Anthony Daniels' performance one set that really helped to bring the character to life with all the like-able earnest charm intact. He's written to be an annoying comedy relief character, and it could have just as easily gone the other way (JAR JAR!).

Not only did Daniels get to do deliver the vocal acting for his character in post, he was pretty much THE voice of the Star Wars tie-in media for the original trilogy, and became an excellent spokesperson for Star Wars at live events, including MCing the Star Wars Orchestra Tour, not to mention a very charming and gracious ambassador for Lucasfilm at any event he shows up at (probably because he doesn't have to get shoved into the suit to make a living as he did in the early years).

[LadyZod]

You know, I'm pretty sure the tipping point was Revenge of the Sith.

Prowse was to be in the suit at the end... until he who will not be named because he is by far the WORST actor in the history of acting decided he wanted to wear the stilts and put on the cape and mask.