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Update to Supes Rights case.. origin goes to heirs

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  • samurainoir
    Eloquent Member
    • Dec 26, 2006
    • 18758

    #16
    Originally posted by kingdom warrior
    Ok Correct me if I'm wrong......but in those days didn't National rule with an Iron hand where deals were basically take it or leave it? So did they really have a choice? and the Fact that they were Jewish and racially discriminated. Jews were looked down upon during the time....and were they not fired soon after turning over the rights to Superman?

    So maybe that was the Best Deal that National was ever going to give them at the time........
    I'm actually very "pro" for the Seigel's and Shuster's to gain control of Superman as a step for creator rights and human individual rights over the rights of a corporation (which actually does become fightening when you take into account that these corporate entities function with the same rights as a human individual.)

    My understanding (and someone can correct me if I'm wrong) is that the ability of the Shuster's and Seigel's to reclaim copyright is a by-product of "the Sonny Bono Act", AKA the Copyright Term extension act, which was essentially put into motion so that Disney could retain control of Mickey Mouse and DC could theoretically retain control of Superman as it was only a matter of years before all these characters went into public domain under the terms of copyright prior to 1998.

    HOWEVER, whether or not there was racism involved, it should be pointed out that many of these early folks that ran the Comics Companies were Jewish themselves (ie Max Gaines, Mort Weisinger, Harry Donnenfeld, Jack Leiboweitz), and there are examples of Jewish creators who were able to negotiate much more lucrative deals for themselves. Such as Will Eisner's ownership of The Spirit. The better comparative example would be Bob Kane. Kane apparently had a much better contract (and better negotiation skills and/or lawyer on hand), which included royalties that had him living more than comfortably even after he was eventually pushed out of the day to day. (Kane's ghost artists and writers are another story entirely)


    Here is what the Seigel's and Shuster's do have on their side. The lack of early documentation around the original hand-shake deals or verbal agreements around things like royalties (which seemd to work to their detriment back then, unlike Kane who apparently had documentation and specific contracts), and there is absolutely no doubt that Superman was NOT created work for hire. He was essentially creator owned work BEFORE DC published him.

    I'm sure this is oversimplification, but IF Disney gets to keep Mickey Mouse, and DC gets the right to keep Superman, who would otherwise go into Public Domain, the ORIGINAL owners are allowed to cancel that and lay claim.

    This won't work for Spiderman when his time comes (95 years after publication under the new terms) for example because there is absolutely no doubt that he was created Work For Hire given the paper trail.


    This is my layman's understanding of what is going on. But I would defer to any copyright lawyers out there or comics historians with better sources than my swiss cheese memory.
    Last edited by samurainoir; Aug 16, '09, 4:51 PM.
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    • Earth 2 Chris
      Verbose Member
      • Mar 7, 2004
      • 32525

      #17
      Ok Correct me if I'm wrong......but in those days didn't National rule with an Iron hand where deals were basically take it or leave it? So did they really have a choice? and the Fact that they were Jewish and racially discriminated. Jews were looked down upon during the time....and were they not fired soon after turning over the rights to Superman?
      I believe at least one of the owners of DC, Jack Liebowitz, was Jewish. In fact most of the famous Golden Age creators were Jewish. Siegel and Shuster, Jack Kirby and Joe Simon, Bob Kane, Will Eisner, etc.

      I don't think racism has ever come up in any version of the Siegel/Shuster vs. DC stories I have read over the years. Siegel got mad because DC came up with their own version of Superboy while he was in the service (he was drafted and worked for Stars N' Stripes in the later days of WWII). He had pitched an earlier version of Superboy to DC before leaving for the service. He eventually filed suit for the rights to Superman because he felt he was losing control, since more and more of the ever-increasing Superman work was going outside of him and Shuster. DC promptly fired him and Shuster.

      Chris

      Chris
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      • kingdom warrior
        OH JES!!
        • Jul 21, 2005
        • 12478

        #18
        Thanks guys for all the Good info...I wasn't sure about how it all worked out. Much appreciated!

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        • The Bat
          Batman Fanatic
          • Jul 14, 2002
          • 13412

          #19
          I heard that Marvel is already Eying Superman...and that they want to make him a more "dark & tormented Character". Also...they don't feel there is enough Blood & Gore in Superman Comics nowadays.
          Last edited by The Bat; Aug 16, '09, 2:34 PM.
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          • kingdom warrior
            OH JES!!
            • Jul 21, 2005
            • 12478

            #20
            Zombie Superman awwwwwww Yeah!!!!!!!

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            • jwyblejr
              galactic yo-yo
              • Apr 6, 2006
              • 11143

              #21
              Originally posted by The Bat
              I heard the Marvel is already Eying Superman...and that they want to make him a more "dark & tormented Character". Also...they don't feel there is enough Blood & Gore in Superman Comics nowadays.
              Plus they want him to cut a deal with Mephisto so they can undo his marriage to Lois.

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              • The Bat
                Batman Fanatic
                • Jul 14, 2002
                • 13412

                #22
                Originally posted by jwyblejr
                Plus they want him to cut a deal with Mephisto so they can undo his marriage to Lois.

                sigpic

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                • 60'schild
                  Silver Haired Silver Ager
                  • Mar 27, 2009
                  • 0

                  #23
                  Yeah, the House of RECYCLED Ideas ...

                  Superman at Marvel would be a disaster. LOL

                  Anybody recall the special miniseries from several years back (at DC), where Stan Lee was allowed to re-imagine several DC comics (including Supes?)

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                  • The Bat
                    Batman Fanatic
                    • Jul 14, 2002
                    • 13412

                    #24
                    Originally posted by 60'schild
                    Superman at Marvel would be a disaster. LOL

                    Anybody recall the special miniseries from several years back (at DC), where Stan Lee was allowed to re-imagine several DC comics (including Supes?)

                    Yup! Case in point.
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                    • The Toyroom
                      The Packaging King
                      • Dec 31, 2004
                      • 16653

                      #25
                      Originally posted by 60'schild
                      Anybody recall the special miniseries from several years back (at DC), where Stan Lee was allowed to re-imagine several DC comics (including Supes?)
                      Stan Lee has been past his prime for quite a while now....
                      Think OUTSIDE the Box! For the BEST in Repro & Custom Packaging!

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                      • samurainoir
                        Eloquent Member
                        • Dec 26, 2006
                        • 18758

                        #26
                        There was a proposal during the early Jim Shooter years where Warner Brothers were considering shutting down their comics operations and licensing the DC characters out to Marvel.

                        Interesting when you consider Jim Shooter's humble beginnings as Superman editor Mort Weisinger's teen protege.
                        My store in the MEGO MALL!

                        BUY THE CAPTAIN CANUCK ACTION FIGURE HERE!

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