"Legacy" Numbering....What's Your Opinion?

[The Toyroom]

Seems like Marvel is reverting a lot of their long running titles back to the "legacy" numbering (many of the books had been relaunched with new number 1s). Fantastic Four and Thor have already reverted and it appears that coming up so will Captain America and Spider-Man (#600) and Daredevil (#500). And Incredible Hulk is returning with #600, even though the most recent title was taken over by The Incredible Hercules, which is still going to continue with the numbering it has (around #130 or something)

Meanwhile, at DC, the relaunch of Adventure Comics is starting with a new #1 (instead of #504) and DiDio is refusing fans requests to renumber Wonder Woman with #600 to bring her more in line with the other 2 "trinity" members Superman and Batman.

Personally, I like the original numbering and wish DC would follow Marvel and revert to the legacy numbering....I understand the theory behind a number 1 issue as opposed to something in the 5 or 600s, but a new number 1 is only going to carry you so far....once you reach issue 2 or 5 or 10 the book isn't "new" anymore and it seems that a higher number would serve you better in the long run to show that this title has been around for a while because it's iconic.

[ctc]

Hmmmm....

I don't think it really matters. The number doesn't affect the content at all. If I remember correctly there was a tendency for numbers to slip like this back in the early 60's/late 50's.
Don C.

[kryptosmaster]

Totally agree with you. I made up a list a couple times but I can't seem to find it. I took all DC's long-running titles pre-COIE (and a bunch of popular 70's titles as well) and extrapolated what their current numbers would be if they hadn't been canceled and were still published monthly from that point iuntil today. You'd be surprised how high some of the numbers were. I think Superman Family had reached #500 for one example.
I was hoping beyond hope that when they announced the cancellation of the Byrne Superman title that they would restore the Superman name to the original 1939 Superman book (which they did) and also rename the Byrne Superman book as Superman Family and pick up the numbering at #223 (if I recall right).
The only problem I have with the practice (as Marvel is doing it) is they are taking other titles (that replaced the originals) and counting those as issues of that title (which they technically are not). They should've just negated the the interim stuff or picked up where the original numbering left off. Of course I see why they did it...because by using those accounting methods they were reaching milestone anniversary issues.
I think it's a nice homage to what came before and a link to the heritage to take up the numbering where the previous run left off.
As a collector, using the Marvel method seems like a nightmare to me. "where are issues #xxx of Fantastic Four? it skips from #400-something to #500"
Rich

[thunderbolt]

^^ Well if they stopped say FF and restarted it from number 1 and say it went 50 issues or something, shouldn't those 50 issues count toward the legacy number? the original line was killed to bring a fresh new number 1 to the shelves. And all this was done by the geniuses in charge of the big two that deemed it to intimidating to new readers to deal with a book that was around for 5 or 600 issues

[The Toyroom]

The original FF run went to 416....the Heroes Reborn relaunch lasted 13....then the 3rd run went 70 issues....so that's 499 issues....with the 71st issue of Vol.3 it reverted back to the legacy number of 500.

A trickier one is Thor.....Thor was orginally Journey Into Mystery #1-125 (Thor 1st appeared in JIM #82)...became Thor with #126 until #502, at which time it became Journey Into Mystery again from #503-521. A new Thor title was launched and ran 85 issues. A 3rd title ran for 12 issues before being renumbered as #600. So it appears that the 2nd JIM run from #503-521 does NOT count toward 600 issues of Thor.

[Bionic Joe]

The whole Heroes reborn idea was total garbage even back in 96, What was the point? In away it helped IRON MAN by getting rid of teenage Tony but was a whole new first issue needed same for Hulk, Daredevil, Spiderman, and just about every Marvel title except the X-MEN, It was nothing but a sales gimmick thinking sale will jump by just starting over with issue one and years later they want to celebrate milestone issues hence the return of the old numbering where the title should have been to start with agian another gimmick, Look for another run of first issues in a few years

[MegoSteve]

What drives me nuts is filing the darned things. I still haven't figured out how to deal with putting Superman in order.

The whole thing is so complicated it makes my caveman brain hurt.

[johnnystorm]

I prefer the legacy numbering myself. There's something about a book at #600 or 700 that I think is just cool. I understand Adventure will also have the legacy number on it (#504?) to show it is officially a continuation. I suspect (and hope) that the legacy number will eventually "take over" after the novelty of the re-launch wears off.

[VintageMike]

I prefer the legacy numbering and hope venetually someone will realize why the went back to it: There was never any reason to "start over" in the first place!

[kryptosmaster]

^^ Well if they stopped say FF and restarted it from number 1 and say it went 50 issues or something, shouldn't those 50 issues count toward the legacy number? the original line was killed to bring a fresh new number 1 to the shelves.

Well really those aren't issues of the same title. It was a new series but I know what you're saying. In essence they are issues #417, 418, etc but with new numbers but not technically and since they aren't really the same continuity (I dropped them so I'm going on hearsay) they shouldn't count. They should've picked up at #417.

A trickier one is Thor.....Thor was orginally Journey Into Mystery #1-125 (Thor 1st appeared in JIM #82)...became Thor with #126 until #502, at which time it became Journey Into Mystery again from #503-521. A new Thor title was launched and ran 85 issues. A 3rd title ran for 12 issues before being renumbered as #600. So it appears that the 2nd JIM run from #503-521 does NOT count toward 600 issues of Thor.

Apparently they missed the opportunity with Thor so made up their own rules (again) on what issues should count or not count in order to achieve their goals.

The whole Heroes reborn idea was total garbage even back in 96, What was the point? It was nothing but a sales gimmick thinking sale will jump by just starting over with issue one and years later they want to celebrate milestone issues hence the return of the old numbering where the title should have been to start with agian another gimmick,

Exactly! #1's are always big sellers. A sales gimmick is exactly what it was and DC is not immune to this practice. They killed plenty of good, solid, high-numbered titles for the gimmick factor, too.

What drives me nuts is filing the darned things. I still haven't figured out how to deal with putting Superman in order.

The whole thing is so complicated it makes my caveman brain hurt.

Well I am p.o.'d at Overstreet for the way they have Superman listed. They put the original numbering now with the Byrne title with a note that it reverted to the old title's numbers. That's a bunch of CRAP!! They should have it Superman 1939 and then note: ttitle changed to Adventures of Superman with numbers xxx to xxx and reverted back to original title with #xxx.
I have the 1939 title and seamlessly switches to Adv of Superman and then back to Superman...all in same section/boxes since to me it is the same comic (numbers) but with a temporary change of the title for a few years.

I understand Adventure will also have the legacy number on it (#504?) to show it is officially a continuation. I suspect (and hope) that the legacy number will eventually "take over" after the novelty of the re-launch wears off.

I hope you are right. I hadn't heard that. I heard starting over at #0.

There was never any reason to "start over" in the first place!

EXACTLY!!

Rich

[Bionic Joe]

What drives me nuts is filing the darned things. I still haven't figured out how to deal with putting Superman in order.

The whole thing is so complicated it makes my caveman brain hurt.

Here's how i do file Superman i take the first Superman series and then place Adventures of Superman with them, The 2nd Superman series [The relauch number one is labeled Superman 2nd series on the divider]

[johnnystorm]

Here's DC's Dan Didio in an interview on Newsarama this past week concerning numbering, Adventure Comics in particular:

"15. A reader jumped on something that seems to be a contradiction in what you’ve said before about re-numbering series in that Adventure Comics #1 has a variant cover version that has the number #504 on it. “What gives?” the person asked, and added “Give Wonder Woman some respect,” which is in regards to giving Wonder Woman her original numbering back...

DD I look at it slightly differently, and I’m going to talk semantics for a second, and I’m sure that’s how it will be argued, but when I look at books like Action Comics and Detective, and they’ve maintained their numbering from #1 on, I feel that Adventure Comics fits within that same brand and title recognition. There is a pedigree that comes with the Adventure Comics numbering – there were great efforts made to continue Adventure Comics as a publication just to reach the #500 mark – they moved it into digest form to do it – and there’s a certain amount of respect that comes with the number and the name that I’d like to acknowledge in the return of the title.

In other books, such as Wonder Woman and other series, such as Flash and Green Lantern, we chose to go back to #1 when we relaunched them. One of the primary goals is to attract as wide an audience as possible with the new numbering, and in some cases, the lower numbers attract some readers, because they feel that they don’t have as much history that they need to go back and grab or sift through in order to get to this point. We’re aware that Wonder Woman has a long history and long legacy and so many years worth of books under her belt – and none of that is diminished by the fact that we’re standing at the number we’re at right now. From my standpoint, I just don’t see the need to do it – it’s not going to change the stories we tell, it’s not gong to change who the character is, it’s not going to change a single thing about her. She still stands with the sense of history and legacy that she has always had, and we do nothing but treat her with the utmost respect due to one of the primary characters of the DC Universe. Anyone who thinks otherwise, and needs a #600 issue to prove it is mistaken. "

[ctc]

Hmmmm....

Y'know; after that last bit it kinda seems like the "Legacy" numbering is an attempt to say "no, we're still pertinent 'cos we've got HISTORY!" Which kinda bugs me, 'cos really; it should be a non-issue. The numbers shouldn't be a sales gimmick; they should be a tool so the reader can follw the story.

Don C.

[kryptosmaster]

Here's DC's Dan Didio in an interview on Newsarama this past week concerning numbering, Adventure Comics in particular:

"15. A reader jumped on something that seems to be a contradiction in what you’ve said before about re-numbering series in that Adventure Comics #1 has a variant cover version that has the number #504 on it. “What gives?” the person asked, and added “Give Wonder Woman some respect,” which is in regards to giving Wonder Woman her original numbering back...

DD I look at it slightly differently, and I’m going to talk semantics for a second, and I’m sure that’s how it will be argued, but when I look at books like Action Comics and Detective, and they’ve maintained their numbering from #1 on, I feel that Adventure Comics fits within that same brand and title recognition. There is a pedigree that comes with the Adventure Comics numbering – there were great efforts made to continue Adventure Comics as a publication just to reach the #500 mark – they moved it into digest form to do it – and there’s a certain amount of respect that comes with the number and the name that I’d like to acknowledge in the return of the title.

In other books, such as Wonder Woman and other series, such as Flash and Green Lantern, we chose to go back to #1 when we relaunched them. One of the primary goals is to attract as wide an audience as possible with the new numbering, and in some cases, the lower numbers attract some readers, because they feel that they don’t have as much history that they need to go back and grab or sift through in order to get to this point. We’re aware that Wonder Woman has a long history and long legacy and so many years worth of books under her belt – and none of that is diminished by the fact that we’re standing at the number we’re at right now. From my standpoint, I just don’t see the need to do it – it’s not going to change the stories we tell, it’s not gong to change who the character is, it’s not going to change a single thing about her. She still stands with the sense of history and legacy that she has always had, and we do nothing but treat her with the utmost respect due to one of the primary characters of the DC Universe. Anyone who thinks otherwise, and needs a #600 issue to prove it is mistaken. "

TRANSLATION:
blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah...we're going to put #504 on a variant cover as a tease...blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah...F all you fanboys...blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah.... I'm the antichrist here to destroy DC Comics...blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah

[thunderbolt]

Eventually the big two is going to realize that there are no new readers to atract and go back to the "legacy" (man I hate this phrase) numbering to please the dwindling fan base.