Another PayPal Rant

[ZICA]

I'm starting to think there's really no full proof way for sellers to protect themselves against PayPal charge backs. Recently I came to an agreement with a buyer that I would give him a partial refund and had e-bay messages as proof of this. After I issue the refund, the buyer changes their mind and hits me with an "Item Not As Described" dispute so they can get a full refund. Even after providing PayPal with proof that the buyer had originally agreed to a partial refund they still decided in his favor for a full refund, and this was only because he could provide proof (delivery confirmation) that the item was sent back to me. What's to keep a buyer from pulling the same stunt but sending back an empty box or a completely different item!?! Is there any possible way a seller could have a safeguard against this?

[Zemo]

How did you issue the refund? Did you do it by clicking the refund link in the PP transactio details?

[ZICA]

i would ship through paypal instead of the PO. The ebay messages really don't show any proof that anything was shipped etc.
I had the same problem last week in a shipment to Canada . I had to return something through registered mail because you can del. Conf. something to canada....and i'm still waiting on my refund.
I really don't think there's a fool-proof way to safeguard it.

Me providing proof of shipment wasn't the problem. I had proof of the refund amount that both the buyer and I had agreed on. After I received the figure back, I refunded him the amount, and then he suddenly decides he wants a full refund which PayPal grants him. This was after providing PayPal with proof that we had already agreed on a specific refund amount. It seems like more and more both eBay and PayPal are determined to drive off the people who make them money, those people being the sellers.

[ZICA]

How did you issue the refund? Did you do it by clicking the refund link in the PP transactio details?

Yes. I always use that option when I can so the buyer doesn't have to take a hit on fees.

[Zemo]

Yes. I always use that option when I can so the buyer doesn't have to take a hit on fees.

Then it looks like you need to call PP. Get a live butthead and point out the fact that you gave a partial. Can't see why they wouldn't act. Your out money and he has more than he started with. His paying for return which I assune he did, is not a factor.

[toys2cool]

I had the same problem bro,and I always wondered the same thing about the empty box.Anyone could pull that and no one would ever know

[Zemo]

They have to have a sig delivery, just open it in front of the postman.

[ZICA]

Then it looks like you need to call PP. Get a live butthead and point out the fact that you gave a partial. Can't see why they wouldn't act. Your out money and he has more than he started with. His paying for return which I assune he did, is not a factor.

Actually he now has the full amount he paid minus return shipping, nothing extra. I contacted PayPal and talked to a customer service representative when the claim was filed against me. Even after explaining the whole situation to them and saying that I had proof of the agreed upon refund amount they pretty much said in a polite way that I was SOL. That's another lesson I learned, any communication conducted via ebay's message system doesn't count as proof of anything in a PayPal dispute, it has to be e-mails. That being said, be sure to save all of the e-mails you get that have the ebay messages included in them.

[LadyZod]

i would ship through paypal instead of the PO. The ebay messages really don't show any proof that anything was shipped etc.
I had the same problem last week in a shipment to Canada . I had to return something through registered mail because you can del. Conf. something to canada....and i'm still waiting on my refund.
I really don't think there's a fool-proof way to safeguard it.

Did you know that paypal has some small print stuff that states something along the lines that, since THEY cannot confirm an address OUTSIDE the USA, regardless of the fact that you have proof that the item arrived, you are not protected by their "seller/buyer protection" plan?

I had that happen to me a few years ago in shipping to Canada. I called and spoke to them on the phone, and fax copies of FedEx signature proof, and tracking... and their response was that I just proved that I shipped SOMETHING to SOMEONE. I didn't prove I had shipped the item to the buyer, because the buyer did not have a confirmed address, because paypal cannot confirm addresses outside the USA. So I lost a couple of hundred bucks and an item I could not resell.

Unless they've changed their policies recently, I'd say keep your eyes opened and do not be surprised if things go sour.

[ZICA]

They have to have a sig delivery, just open it in front of the postman.

All the package had was delivery confirmation, there was no signature requirement. About a year ago a friend of mine sold a vintage M.A.S.K Truck on ebay and once the buyer received it he stripped off all of the parts he needed, filed an "Item Not As Described" complaint with PayPal, and shipped it back to my friend. So, my friend ended up with stripped down M.A.S.K Truck and the funds from the sale got pulled from his PayPal account, all because the buyer was able to provide proof of delivery on the package.