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Gerry Conway on the present and future of comics

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  • MRP
    Persistent Member
    • Jul 19, 2016
    • 2043

    Gerry Conway on the present and future of comics

    Gerry Conway, via social media, has been talking about how the comic industry has gotten to the state it is in and what he would do the change things and try to turn it around...

    To state the obvious, comic book publishing is in serious trouble, with a business model that almost literally has no future. Yet comic books are a source of intellectual property for exploitation in all sorts of popular media and have never have greater potential.

    So, why is this? Why do comics as a storytelling form (superhero and otherwise) have such an enormous impact on popular culture but comic book publishers are struggling to survive? Why are publishers almost universally failing to succeed at actual publishing? My basic answer is— they're pursuing the *wrong market.* And they've been doing so, with increasing desperation, since the late 1970s.

    Let's put aside the incredible business stupidity of depending on a single distribution method (direct sales to single-audience comic book stores). The problem is bigger: the defined audience for mainstream comics is an audience that by definition constantly shrinks.

    For a variety of self-enforcing reasons, publishers have defined the primary audience for mainstream comics as, in effect, long term fans and potential collectors. Hence, fan-oriented naval gazing continuity, tri-annual "events", reboots, collector-oriented variant covers, etc. Every single one of these marketing ploys is designed *solely* to appeal to existing readers. Even reboots, ostensibly intended to offer "jumping on" points to new readers, actually require familiarity with previous iterations to provide interest. New readers aren't welcomed by the existing creative strategy at the two mainstream publishers— if anything, new readers are actively *discouraged* by the publishers' frantic pursuit of motivated, existing readership. The clubhouse is closed. Stay out.

    Publishers, of course, will disagree with this analysis and say they're always trying to provide on-ramps to new readers. But any serious look at what they're offering, in the main, reveals a decided tilt— in fact a massive tilt— toward privileging the existing readership. And this makes sense, in a way, because of a cultural creative shift in the editorial direction of the publishing houses that can be traced back to the era I'm from— the late 1960s, early 1970s.

    In the mid 1960s, around 1967, DC Comics offered a weekly tour of their offices during the summer. I went on the tour (and like others, Len Wein and Marv Wolfman among them, became a regular). At one point I had a conversation with then-editor Julie Schwartz. We were talking about a Green Lantern story, and I made some fanboy comment about what I hoped would happen. Julie paused and looked at me. "How old are you?" "Fourteen," I said. He snorted. "Too old. You're not my reader." And he walked off.

    I later learned that at DC (and also at Marvel) in the 1960s the commonly accepted view of the comic book readership was a kid (undoubtedly male) between the age of 9 and 13. What today's book publishers would call Middle-Grade Readers. This makes sense. If we're honest about it, the basic, root appeal of superhero stories is to that part of ourselves that lives in a pre-sexualized, pre-adolescent dream state in which anything is possible. It's the world of "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone." Like "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone" (or Philosopher's Stone if you want to be pedantic), young adults and adults can enjoy superhero stories too, and even want those stories to evolve and mature, just as the Potter books evolved and matured. But. But. But Regardless of what appeal the first Potter book might have for older and existing readers…its primary readership was intended to be, and remains, Middle-Grade, 8 to 12. And the same used to be true for comics, particularly superhero comics. Until my generation came along. Yeah, we Boomers f**ked it up, as usual.

    When I and my cohorts replaced the creatives who'd given the comic book business massive success in the 1960s, folks like Stan Lee and Julie Schwartz, we brought with us our Boomer self-obsession. We didn't want to create comics for kids. We wanted comics for *us.* That's the origin of comic book superheroes' shift from Middle-Grade readership in the 1960s to Young Adult readership in the 1970s, and Adult readership in the 1990s and beyond— the refusal of Boomer creatives and editors like myself and others to Let It Go. We redefined the readership comics were aimed at— coinciding with a shift in distribution that allowed that redefinition to stick. The result is a dead end for comic book publishing as a business. How would I change this?

    I'd cancel every existing superhero comic book, and publish a limited new line for a Middle-Grade readership, simplify characters and storylines, and eliminate every "event" that requires more than passing familiarity with the basic simplified continuity. Ten-fifteen titles.

    For existing readers, I'd offer a separate, higher priced graphic novel line with whatever expanded adult storylines creators and readers want to explore. But this would be separate. Not monthly. Not the mainstream.

    And I'd do *everything* possible to get monthly comics into supermarkets and movie theaters and Walmart and Target and Costco and offer subscription services through Amazon. Pursue every alternate distribution Avenue possible.

    The present course taken by the major publishers is a dead end. They're pursuing the wrong readership. There's a bigger audience out there. We just have to welcome them.
    I don't talk much about the state of the industry here (it's not usually germane to Mego discussions) but it is a topic I engage in at some of the comic sites I participate in, and Conway's assessment of the industry woes and its causes reflect things I have been saying for a decade now. I'm not sure I think his plan moving forward would work-I think periodicals are a niche collector format now and of no interest to mass market consumers so I don't see a plan based on periodical format comics succeeding in the mass market, but I do agree that the audience and market he suggests are what should be targetted moving forward, it just needs to be in a format that appeals to that audience and market, which current sales show to be a book format comic priced between $10 and $20 like the YA GN that are the fastest growing segment of publishing as a whole currently. But I am just an armchair amateur, so who knows.

    -M
    "Opinion is the lowest form of human knowledge. It requires no accountability, no understanding." -Plato
  • enyawd72
    Maker of Monsters!
    • Oct 1, 2009
    • 7904

    #2
    I've been saying this for years. Comics were intended for kids. That's when most if not all of us fell in love with them. The fantastical stories...bright, colorful heroes...wacky, gimmicky villains. You can't take a premise as ridiculous as say...the Green Goblin and turn it into illustrated adult literature. You just cant. Practically everything that's come after Frank Miller and Alan Moore has sucked all the joy out of superhero comics.

    I also agree with him on distribution. When we were kids you could buy comics EVERYWHERE. The grocery store, drug store, newsstand, gas station, 7-11, Woolworths...they all had them.
    Make something that will appeal to kids and make it accessible to them and the sales will come back.

    Comment

    • PNGwynne
      Master of Fowl Play
      • Jun 5, 2008
      • 19458

      #3
      I personally would rather buy trades than monthlies, of whatever content.
      WANTED: Dick Grayson SI trousers; gray AJ Mustang horse; vintage RC Batman (Bruce Wayne) head; minty Wolfman tights; mint Black Knight sword; minty Launcelot boots; Lion Rock (pale) Dracula & Mummy heads; Lion Rock Franky squared boots; Wayne Foundation blue furniture; Flash Gordon/Ming (10") unbroken holsters; CHiPs gloved arms; POTA T2 tan body; CTVT/vintage Friar Tuck robes, BBP TZ Burgess Meredith glasses.

      Comment

      • Werewolf
        Inhuman
        • Jul 14, 2003
        • 14623

        #4
        I agree with this.

        The comic industry shot itself in the foot when they ignored kids in favor of chasing adults. I've mentioned this years ago, my opinion is no mainstream super hero comic (Batman, Superman, Spiderman, Wonder Woman, Hulk, etc. ) should be rated teen to adult. The main Marvel and DC universes should be general audience. Dark, gritty and mature has run the industry into the ground. Comics need to be cheaper, for kids and available where kids and families shop.
        You are a bold and courageous person, afraid of nothing. High on a hill top near your home, there stands a dilapidated old mansion. Some say the place is haunted, but you don't believe in such myths. One dark and stormy night, a light appears in the topmost window in the tower of the old house. You decide to investigate... and you never return...

        Comment

        • PNGwynne
          Master of Fowl Play
          • Jun 5, 2008
          • 19458

          #5
          I guess I feel that cat's out of the bag and I can't picture the Big Two cutting short-term revenue to build long-term readership. I love the idea of a tiered, more accessible product, but can/will the US embrace comics in a manner similar to, for example, Japan?
          Last edited by PNGwynne; Sep 24, '20, 2:45 PM.
          WANTED: Dick Grayson SI trousers; gray AJ Mustang horse; vintage RC Batman (Bruce Wayne) head; minty Wolfman tights; mint Black Knight sword; minty Launcelot boots; Lion Rock (pale) Dracula & Mummy heads; Lion Rock Franky squared boots; Wayne Foundation blue furniture; Flash Gordon/Ming (10") unbroken holsters; CHiPs gloved arms; POTA T2 tan body; CTVT/vintage Friar Tuck robes, BBP TZ Burgess Meredith glasses.

          Comment

          • MRP
            Persistent Member
            • Jul 19, 2016
            • 2043

            #6
            Originally posted by PNGwynne
            I guess I feel that cat's out of the bag and I can't picture the Big Two cutting short-term revenue to build long-term readership. I love the idea of a tiered, more accessible product, but can/will the US embrace comics ina manner similar to, for example, Japan?
            It seems, and appearances could be deceiving still, that DC is moving in this direction after the latest massive shake up of editorial and administrative personnel. It appears that in the short term they are trimming back their direct market offerings, reducing the number of titles they publish, at the same time amping up a new Walmart program for a different kind of product, amping up their YA OGN division and amping up their digital offerings to beef up the DC Universe app transforming it forma hybrid streaming/comic subscription platform to a pure comics platform in Jan 2021 and adding exclusive digital comic content to the service with a more mass market appeal. If true, it's baby steps to be sure, but its baby steps in the right direction.

            Meanwhile Marvel seems to be doubling down on the direct market and amping up the number of books they are offering to try to maximize their market share there, amping up their variant programs and amping up the number of cross-over events they publish to have multiple events running concurrently.

            So yeah I am skeptical of the success of the big 2 transitioning to a wider market when it seems one isn't even trying.

            -M
            "Opinion is the lowest form of human knowledge. It requires no accountability, no understanding." -Plato

            Comment

            • PNGwynne
              Master of Fowl Play
              • Jun 5, 2008
              • 19458

              #7
              I recently received a set of Aquaman Dollar Comics and noticed the ads for the YA items you mentioned. Good idea IMO.
              WANTED: Dick Grayson SI trousers; gray AJ Mustang horse; vintage RC Batman (Bruce Wayne) head; minty Wolfman tights; mint Black Knight sword; minty Launcelot boots; Lion Rock (pale) Dracula & Mummy heads; Lion Rock Franky squared boots; Wayne Foundation blue furniture; Flash Gordon/Ming (10") unbroken holsters; CHiPs gloved arms; POTA T2 tan body; CTVT/vintage Friar Tuck robes, BBP TZ Burgess Meredith glasses.

              Comment

              • hedrap
                Permanent Member
                • Feb 10, 2009
                • 4825

                #8
                If YA is doing so well, then it's not the written material. YA novels are dense with interconnections, fake speak and everything else we know from comics. The problem is the value of static art has dropped like a rock. By value, I mean it's value to pop culture, not marketplace value.

                Comment

                • Makernaut
                  Persistent Member
                  • Jul 22, 2015
                  • 1549

                  #9
                  I can't pretend to understand sales and distribution or what is going to have a broad appeal. And I certainly realize all of you have way more valid opinions about this than I do because you understand comics far better than I do. That said, as someone who doesn't buy on a monthly basis (and haven't in years), I do get excited about modern Superhero offerings that take on a throwback vibe. I always felt like the Timmverse tone worked well and seemed to have a broad appeal. Darwyn Cooke did a lot of stuff that was in that sweet spot of being appropriate for kids, but still interesting enough for adults. The DC Wednesday Comics back in 2009 seemed to be aimed at a wide audience. Recently, we had Future Quest that I was buying. I don't know how it sold, but I don't think a person had to have grown up watching those cartoons to enjoy those stories.

                  I suppose what I am trying to say is that there are examples of recent works that did a good job of adapting older, established properties without resorting to setting it all on its head like "Watchmen" or "The Dark Knight Returns". And they seem to do it without reaching back to the gimmicky 1950's and early 60's that Conway is claiming his generation came along and "f-d up".
                  Last edited by Makernaut; Sep 26, '20, 4:35 PM.

                  Comment

                  • Mr.Marion
                    Permanent Member
                    • Sep 15, 2014
                    • 2733

                    #10
                    I still support the industry by buying trades. 99% of modern comics don't interest me , I'd rather buy vintage toys with whatever collecting money I have.

                    Comment

                    • YoungOnce
                      Career Member
                      • Aug 29, 2007
                      • 966

                      #11
                      I really love the general idea of what he said. It just makes sense that in order to secure a future readership, you better get ‘em while they are young. There is no way that I would have gotten into comic books now had I not been into them when I was young.

                      The big question for sure is, can the medium compete with other entertainment modes available now. Let’s face it... there were not back then the plethora of entertainment options that kids have now. Comics are a subdued entertainment delivery system compared to video games, streaming venues, etc...

                      He’s right though... the current path is a dead end. The fan base for this medium will dry up sooner rather than later without an influx of youth.

                      Maybe what should be engineered is to get kid-friendly books into the markets Mr Conway mentions, in conjunction with an ambitious campaign geared towards the current fan-base (sort of a “good-will” initiative) to encourage the old generation to introduce their kids and grandkids to these stories and the “community” it can foster. Kind of like how 1960’s Marvel made it not only about the comics but the feeling of a larger community gathering together... I don’t know... just reaching I guess. Maybe that’s not coming back to comics. It exists now in Minecraft and a thousand other places kids gather virtually. They don’t need the Fantastic Four letter’s pages or Stan Lee’s Soapbox for that anymore.

                      I’m just throwing stuff out here now... what if there was a campaign to encourage comic-buying adults to purchase a $20.00 annual subscription of a kid-friendly Spider-Man, Batman, Wonder Woman or Iron Man comic book for their kid/grandkid... what kid wouldn’t look forward to getting a new comic book story in the mail once a month? After a year or two of that... bam... you have a new comic enthusiast/fan/customer. Start grass-roots... “Love comics? Pass it down!”

                      Sorry... I know this sounds like a weird version of John Lennon’s “Imagine”.

                      Comment

                      • Earth 2 Chris
                        Verbose Member
                        • Mar 7, 2004
                        • 32526

                        #12
                        ^No, I think that's a really good idea.

                        I agree with what Conway said. I would slightly disagree it was the next crop of writers following his group with Wein, Wolfman, etc, that took comics beyond a "for kids" realm, in terms of content and accessibility. The Bronze Agers did a great job of just nudging the more mature content needle forward without totally forgetting there were kids reading these books, and THAT was the actual target audience.

                        Fandom ate it's own tail.

                        Chris
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