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Karloff - 1939 Color Test Footage

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  • Confessional
    Maker & Whatnot
    • Aug 8, 2012
    • 3410

    Karloff - 1939 Color Test Footage

    A lil' clip to put a monster smile on yer face today: https://boingboing.net/2020/07/03/fu...or-footag.html
  • Meule
    Verbose Member
    • Nov 14, 2004
    • 28720

    #2
    That did indeed put a smile on my face... Frankenstein sticking out his tongue
    "...The agony of my soul found vent in one loud, long and final scream of despair..." - Edgar Allan Poe

    Comment

    • Earth 2 Chris
      Verbose Member
      • Mar 7, 2004
      • 32498

      #3
      ^And roughing up his "creator", Jack P. Pierce.

      I personally don't understand how some folks can argue that the Monster WASN'T intended to be green...at least by this point! If you take this footage and imagine it grayscaled, the color is going to be pretty close to the way the Monster looked in the first two films as well. Does that mean in the original film and Bride he was intended to be green? Well, that's the debate. I think he certainly COULD have been intended to be green...even if his makeup WASN'T green in those films. Kirk Alyn and George Reeves wore brown and gray Superman suits, but the intention was obviously to be red and blue!

      But all that aside, this footage is indeed wonderful, and I never tire of seeing it. I just wish we could hear the audio as well.

      Chris
      sigpic

      Comment

      • knight errant00
        8 Inch Action Figure
        • Nov 15, 2005
        • 1766

        #4
        Originally posted by Earth 2 Chris
        I personally don't understand how some folks can argue that the Monster WASN'T intended to be green...at least by this point! If you take this footage and imagine it grayscaled, the color is going to be pretty close to the way the Monster looked in the first two films as well. Does that mean in the original film and Bride he was intended to be green? Well, that's the debate. I think he certainly COULD have been intended to be green...even if his makeup WASN'T green in those films. Kirk Alyn and George Reeves wore brown and gray Superman suits, but the intention was obviously to be red and blue!
        I'm a little mixed on that one. Clearly the old Superman costumes were designed for what would look right on screen in B&W (same with Captain Marvel). The only issue I have on calling various monsters "intended to be green" (and I'm not riling it out) is that certain shades of green film and contrast better in B&W. For example, I've read Stan Laurel would sometimes wear light green face make-up because it made him look paler on film -- I don't think he ever meant his character to be green. Because we're talking monsters, though, it is easier to make a leap to green as the intended color.

        Is there anything from Pierce or Whale that pushes the discussion one way or the other?

        Comment

        • mjaycox
          Veteran Member
          • Jun 16, 2008
          • 337

          #5
          Originally posted by knight errant00
          I'm a little mixed on that one. Clearly the old Superman costumes were designed for what would look right on screen in B&W (same with Captain Marvel). The only issue I have on calling various monsters "intended to be green" (and I'm not riling it out) is that certain shades of green film and contrast better in B&W. For example, I've read Stan Laurel would sometimes wear light green face make-up because it made him look paler on film -- I don't think he ever meant his character to be green. Because we're talking monsters, though, it is easier to make a leap to green as the intended color.

          Is there anything from Pierce or Whale that pushes the discussion one way or the other?
          This is a looooooooooooooooonng discussion with ardent passionate advocates on BOTH sides. Head over to the classic horror film board if you want to see this discussed ad nauseum

          It borders on religious/political fervor.

          Basically, the only thing one can reallly go on is advertising art. Early Universal art shows Frankie as having a flesh color. And most poster art for it depicts this.

          Now it would be easy to say that Frank "became" green when the Son of Frank was considering being technicolor.

          But advertising art for Bride of Frankenstein even depicted some of the images of the monster as being green (even while his bride, ironically, was always pale white), a whole movie before "Son of Frankenstein"

          I have made many Frankenstein toy customs and have always preferred flesh tones, because they always just looked more "right" to me. But there is something iconic about a green FRankie that's hard to ignore.

          My attitude is this: in a black and white film, the "color" is whatever YOU choose it to be. Black and White isn't missing anything-- we see in color every day-- black and white gives us something we don't see. We are forced to engage and complete the illusion. So if Dracula's cape to you is red, well then it's red. If Frankie is green, he's green, etc.

          Matt
          Warm up?! We may as well sit around this cigarette!

          Comment

          • Werewolf
            Inhuman
            • Jul 14, 2003
            • 14616

            #6
            For the first Frankenstein movie the creature was supposed to look a ghastly pale dead white on B&W film so they used green make up. By the time of the color tests the creature was intended to be green.
            You are a bold and courageous person, afraid of nothing. High on a hill top near your home, there stands a dilapidated old mansion. Some say the place is haunted, but you don't believe in such myths. One dark and stormy night, a light appears in the topmost window in the tower of the old house. You decide to investigate... and you never return...

            Comment

            • PNGwynne
              Master of Fowl Play
              • Jun 5, 2008
              • 19445

              #7
              Without "choosing sides," something that interests me is the color--light olive-green--of this footage. You can see the muted contrast compared to Pierce.

              I like the Monster green, but not too much so. The muted pantone choice of the Uni style guide suits my taste. Now, Phantom of the Opera's skin tone--that's something I can discuss ardently.
              WANTED: Dick Grayson SI trousers; gray AJ Mustang horse; vintage RC Batman (Bruce Wayne) head; minty Wolfman tights; mint Black Knight sword; minty Launcelot boots; Lion Rock (pale) Dracula & Mummy heads; Lion Rock Franky squared boots; Wayne Foundation blue furniture; Flash Gordon/Ming (10") unbroken holsters; CHiPs gloved arms; POTA T2 tan body; CTVT/vintage Friar Tuck robes, BBP TZ Burgess Meredith glasses.

              Comment

              • Earth 2 Chris
                Verbose Member
                • Mar 7, 2004
                • 32498

                #8
                My attitude is this: in a black and white film, the "color" is whatever YOU choose it to be. Black and White isn't missing anything-- we see in color every day-- black and white gives us something we don't see. We are forced to engage and complete the illusion. So if Dracula's cape to you is red, well then it's red. If Frankie is green, he's green, etc.

                Matt
                A good way to go.

                Unless notes from someone involved in the film are found that state one way or another "He was green, and was intended to be green", or "He was green, but not intended to be green", or even "He was never green in the first two films", then it's all really conjecture.

                Julie Adams was asked if the Creature was bright green and had red lips and she said no. Then those Life color pictures surfaced that proved her wrong, and she WAS THERE. Memory cheats. I can't remember what I had for breakfast yesterday!

                Chris
                sigpic

                Comment

                • phil
                  Persistent Member
                  • May 11, 2007
                  • 2078

                  #9
                  By the time Son of Frankenstein takes place a number of years have passed since the first two films. Maybe the Monster turned a shade of green over time.

                  Is there anything in the actual scripts that suggest an intended color for the Monster’s flesh?

                  That test footage is always fun to see!

                  Comment

                  • hedrap
                    Permanent Member
                    • Feb 10, 2009
                    • 4825

                    #10
                    Frank's definitely meant to be pale in the 31. He's explicitly designed after Veidt's Cesare, (which I presume came about due to the failure of adapting the Golem look for Lugosi).

                    For Bride, the dark, sunken makeup from 31 is clearly gone, replaced by an olive hue underneath a burnt cinder powder. I've found it interesting how little Bride figure/models their are because this is a distinct aesthetic Whale was after.

                    For Son, he's full out teal to play with Technicolor's cyan. It's a contrasting color you won't find in castle set designs and can avoid in wardrobe without limiting garments since it's a summer/water tone, which is the opposite of SOF's setting. Son really needs to be colorized. It was fully designed for the four process.

                    From there on, he's Halloween Green.

                    Comment

                    • knight errant00
                      8 Inch Action Figure
                      • Nov 15, 2005
                      • 1766

                      #11
                      Originally posted by hedrap
                      Frank's definitely meant to be pale in the 31. He's explicitly designed after Veidt's Cesare, (which I presume came about due to the failure of adapting the Golem look for Lugosi).

                      For Bride, the dark, sunken makeup from 31 is clearly gone, replaced by an olive hue underneath a burnt cinder powder. I've found it interesting how little Bride figure/models their are because this is a distinct aesthetic Whale was after.

                      For Son, he's full out teal to play with Technicolor's cyan. It's a contrasting color you won't find in castle set designs and can avoid in wardrobe without limiting garments since it's a summer/water tone, which is the opposite of SOF's setting. Son really needs to be colorized. It was fully designed for the four process.

                      From there on, he's Halloween Green.
                      Interesting.

                      Your mentioning teal makes me wonder if anyone involved the production for SoF was calling back to any of the Monster's live-action history -- when I was doing research on the book for its 200th anniversary back in 2018, I remember reading how the actor playing the monster in the 1820s stage plays had set off a fad in Paris, with with women buying gloves and having gowns made in what was called "monster blue" or "monster green" -- the color the actor painted himself for the part -- which from some of the surviving prints, looks kinda teal.

                      Or maybe it was a coincidence.

                      monstre.jpg

                      Comment

                      • PNGwynne
                        Master of Fowl Play
                        • Jun 5, 2008
                        • 19445

                        #12
                        I'm not grasping the teal analysis, personally I don't see a lot of blue in that makeup
                        WANTED: Dick Grayson SI trousers; gray AJ Mustang horse; vintage RC Batman (Bruce Wayne) head; minty Wolfman tights; mint Black Knight sword; minty Launcelot boots; Lion Rock (pale) Dracula & Mummy heads; Lion Rock Franky squared boots; Wayne Foundation blue furniture; Flash Gordon/Ming (10") unbroken holsters; CHiPs gloved arms; POTA T2 tan body; CTVT/vintage Friar Tuck robes, BBP TZ Burgess Meredith glasses.

                        Comment

                        • J.B.
                          Guild Navigator
                          • Jun 23, 2010
                          • 2881

                          #13
                          I'm leaning towards Periwinkle for SOF.
                          You are transparent; I see many things... I see plans within plans.

                          Comment

                          • hedrap
                            Permanent Member
                            • Feb 10, 2009
                            • 4825

                            #14
                            Exactly. I had read about it as Monster Green, but I call it a teal, but it can be more of a patina. It was a common color for the supernatural in theater.



                            Originally posted by knight errant00
                            Interesting.

                            Your mentioning teal makes me wonder if anyone involved the production for SoF was calling back to any of the Monster's live-action history -- when I was doing research on the book for its 200th anniversary back in 2018, I remember reading how the actor playing the monster in the 1820s stage plays had set off a fad in Paris, with with women buying gloves and having gowns made in what was called "monster blue" or "monster green" -- the color the actor painted himself for the part -- which from some of the surviving prints, looks kinda teal.

                            Or maybe it was a coincidence.

                            [ATTACH=CONFIG]28495[/ATTACH]

                            Comment

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