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Thread: My thoughts on JOKER...and a likely unpopular opinion.

  1. #1
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    My thoughts on JOKER...and a likely unpopular opinion.

    I was anticipating Joker more than almost any movie this year, and it didn't disappoint. I thought it was an incredible film. I left the theatre thinking I had seen something special. So what's the problem?

    Well, I tried to watch it a second time, and could barely get through it because the surprise was gone, and all I was left with was an incredibly bleak, depressing experience. This is NOT a film that makes you feel good after viewing it, and for a comic book film, that is a HUGE problem IMO. I don't know that I will ever want to watch it again.

    Don't get me wrong, as a drama it's a fantastic piece of work, but they could have changed all the character names...removed any and all Batman references and simply called it "Clown" and it would have been just as good.
    I think as adults we sometimes forget that we all fell in love with comics and superheroes as children, and like it or not, that is what their original intent was.

    Personally, I like my superhero films to speak to that inner child. I like to leave the theatre feeling GOOD after watching one of them. They should inspire hope. DC was finally starting down the right path with Wonder Woman, Aquaman, and Shazam because they were copying what worked for Marvel, without really understanding WHY it worked for Marvel. Recently several prominent filmmakers have criticized Marvel films as irrelevant, superficial, and not to be taken seriously. While I wholeheartedly disagree with this sentiment, because these films DO inspire. I saw adults moved to tears in more than one Marvel film. And most often they were tears of JOY. Joy at seeing their childhood heroes brought to life.

    So where does JOKER fit into all this? My greatest fear is that because this is arguably DC's biggest hit to date, they will once again course correct without understanding WHY the film was a hit for this specific character, and
    that they will try to paint the entire DC cinematic universe with this same brush.
    The results of this would be catastrophic. But we all know that's EXACTLY what WB is thinking. How can we make _________ more like JOKER? They've already openly stated they have no idea what to do with Superman. They believe he's irrelevant in today's world.

    I think perhaps JOKER was a little too relevant to what's going on in today's world. It was an eerily dark reflection of our current reality. I only hope WB realizes that sometimes people go into a darkened theatre to see the LIGHT at the end of the tunnel, to escape from the horrors of reality, and to leave feeling more hopeful than when they went in. This is after all, what superheroes are for.
    Last edited by enyawd72; Dec 3, '19 at 4:40 PM.

  2. #2
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    DC seems so knee jerk to whatever is a hit for them. Before the Joker it was Aquaman and Shazam that did well. Both were lighter fare and should really show them that Superman can work. I don't want to see them all colored with the same crayon either, a Joker movie should be dark, as should a Batman movie to a point. I am intrigued to see what Matt Reeves does with Bats, rumors are floating that his main inspiration at least from a design sense is the 66 show. I don't get how they can't figure out Supes, he really is a hero that needs to be around now. They tried to darken him up and that didn't work. They have a perfectly good actor for the role and they seem intent on mucking that up too. The final battle in JLA showed Cavill can do the job if given something to work with. I am guessing with the Joker hitting it big, that is why we are hearing a lot about the Black Adam movie right now.
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  3. #3
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    Shazam was not a a big box office hit.

    Shazam! has grossed $140.4 million in the United States and Canada, and $224.6 million in other territories, for a worldwide total of $365 million. It was estimated that the film needed to gross $235–250 million worldwide in order to break even.

    Aquaman at $1,148,161,807 and Wonder Woman at $821,847,012 were way bigger hits.

  4. #4
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    I can see how you feel about Joker. I have not seen it yet...but I have a feeling it’s going to be a one time viewing as well for me.

    I might be wrong, but that’s my gut feeling for now.

  5. #5
    I read the wiki synopsis about The Joker, but I will wait till it gets released on DVD to watch it. I am not looking forward to it because it really does not make since and now I am afraid DC Cinema will want to move in this direction. A Joker movie without Batman just does not make since in my opinion.
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    Iím actually annoyed that they are already planning a sequel for Joker. Itís a great stand alone movie. Itís dark and depressing for sure, and the fact that a sequel has been green lit so quickly makes me just think they are still chasing something that sells without worrying about having something to say. Joker had something to say in a way that Marvel movies, for example, do not. Which I guess is kind of funny since the Joker film was so heavily influenced by Taxi Driver.

    You know theyíre going to try and jam Batman in a sequel. Does this Joker seem like any competition for Batman? Does Batman even make any kind of sense in a movie like Joker? I think I actually would have liked the Joker better in this film without the Batman references. It didnít need them and kind of took the realism away from the whole thing.

    I think it just continues to show that DC and/or Warner Bros are rudderless when it comes to movies. I wanted Shazam! to do better. Itís the only DC film Iíve truly enjoyed since...I canít even remember. Batman Returns?
    Last edited by CrimsonGhost; Dec 4, '19 at 1:09 PM.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by enyawd72 View Post
    ...
    ...Don't get me wrong, as a drama it's a fantastic piece of work, but they could have changed all the character names...removed any and all Batman references and simply called it "Clown" and it would have been just as good.
    I think as adults we sometimes forget that we all fell in love with comics and superheroes as children, and like it or not, that is what their original intent was.

    ...So where does JOKER fit into all this? My greatest fear is that because this is arguably DC's biggest hit to date, they will once again course correct without understanding WHY the film was a hit for this specific character, and that they will try to paint the entire DC cinematic universe with this same brush...

    I think perhaps JOKER was a little too relevant to what's going on in today's world. It was an eerily dark reflection of our current reality. I only hope WB realizes that sometimes people go into a darkened theatre to see the LIGHT at the end of the tunnel, to escape from the horrors of reality, and to leave feeling more hopeful than when they went in. This is after all, what superheroes are for.
    I think both your praise and fears are both well founded.

    Joker was an amazing film. And yes, part of the reason why it worked was that it was so disturbing and dark. Seeing a person spiral like that was definitely a punch in the gut and would be hard to watch again. I had a similar reaction to Nolan's Dark Knight- it was an amazing film, but I had difficulty accepting the Joker had indeed turned Harvey Dent (Gotham's hope) and that Batman had to accept responsibility for Dent's death to be "the hero Gotham deserves."

    You are also right that Warner needs to realize that each hero has their own story... and most of them are heroic!

    I do think, though, the Joker (and Batman, for that matter) lend themselves to the potential of this type of storytelling. Both Joker and Batman are driven by the darker motivation of revenge- revenge against crime/chaos in one case and revenge against everyone/life's unfairness/big joke in the other. Warner made the mistake of believing this gray world was the key to the sometimes black and white world of superheroes. They did not get the spirit of each hero's story differs and that most, in fact, resonate with the idea of being a Hero. Wonder Woman and Aquaman worked because they reflected the spirit of each hero. I'm not sure you could've done the Big Red Cheese any other way. Let's see what they do moving forward.
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  8. #8
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    I've lost count of how many times I've seen Apocalypse Now, but I would never see The Deer Hunter again, even though I really enjoyed it and thought it was some of the best acting in any movie I've seen. I realize I'm comparing War movies to Comic Book movies, but I went into Joker knowing it was not your standard Comics flick. None of the trailers lead you to believe this was going to be a feel good, cheer out loud movie. It delivered exactly what it sold.
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