Help support the Mego Museum
Help support the Mego Museum

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

My thoughts on JOKER...and a likely unpopular opinion.

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • enyawd72
    Maker of Monsters!
    • Oct 1, 2009
    • 7904

    My thoughts on JOKER...and a likely unpopular opinion.

    I was anticipating Joker more than almost any movie this year, and it didn't disappoint. I thought it was an incredible film. I left the theatre thinking I had seen something special. So what's the problem?

    Well, I tried to watch it a second time, and could barely get through it because the surprise was gone, and all I was left with was an incredibly bleak, depressing experience. This is NOT a film that makes you feel good after viewing it, and for a comic book film, that is a HUGE problem IMO. I don't know that I will ever want to watch it again.

    Don't get me wrong, as a drama it's a fantastic piece of work, but they could have changed all the character names...removed any and all Batman references and simply called it "Clown" and it would have been just as good.
    I think as adults we sometimes forget that we all fell in love with comics and superheroes as children, and like it or not, that is what their original intent was.

    Personally, I like my superhero films to speak to that inner child. I like to leave the theatre feeling GOOD after watching one of them. They should inspire hope. DC was finally starting down the right path with Wonder Woman, Aquaman, and Shazam because they were copying what worked for Marvel, without really understanding WHY it worked for Marvel. Recently several prominent filmmakers have criticized Marvel films as irrelevant, superficial, and not to be taken seriously. While I wholeheartedly disagree with this sentiment, because these films DO inspire. I saw adults moved to tears in more than one Marvel film. And most often they were tears of JOY. Joy at seeing their childhood heroes brought to life.

    So where does JOKER fit into all this? My greatest fear is that because this is arguably DC's biggest hit to date, they will once again course correct without understanding WHY the film was a hit for this specific character, and
    that they will try to paint the entire DC cinematic universe with this same brush.
    The results of this would be catastrophic. But we all know that's EXACTLY what WB is thinking. How can we make _________ more like JOKER? They've already openly stated they have no idea what to do with Superman. They believe he's irrelevant in today's world.

    I think perhaps JOKER was a little too relevant to what's going on in today's world. It was an eerily dark reflection of our current reality. I only hope WB realizes that sometimes people go into a darkened theatre to see the LIGHT at the end of the tunnel, to escape from the horrors of reality, and to leave feeling more hopeful than when they went in. This is after all, what superheroes are for.
    Last edited by enyawd72; Dec 3, '19, 4:40 PM.
  • thunderbolt
    Hi Ernie!!!
    • Feb 15, 2004
    • 34211

    #2
    DC seems so knee jerk to whatever is a hit for them. Before the Joker it was Aquaman and Shazam that did well. Both were lighter fare and should really show them that Superman can work. I don't want to see them all colored with the same crayon either, a Joker movie should be dark, as should a Batman movie to a point. I am intrigued to see what Matt Reeves does with Bats, rumors are floating that his main inspiration at least from a design sense is the 66 show. I don't get how they can't figure out Supes, he really is a hero that needs to be around now. They tried to darken him up and that didn't work. They have a perfectly good actor for the role and they seem intent on mucking that up too. The final battle in JLA showed Cavill can do the job if given something to work with. I am guessing with the Joker hitting it big, that is why we are hearing a lot about the Black Adam movie right now.
    You must try to generate happiness within yourself. If you aren't happy in one place, chances are you won't be happy anyplace. -Ernie Banks

    Comment

    • Hector
      el Hombre de Acero
      • May 19, 2003
      • 31852

      #3
      Shazam was not a a big box office hit.

      Shazam! has grossed $140.4 million in the United States and Canada, and $224.6 million in other territories, for a worldwide total of $365 million. It was estimated that the film needed to gross $235–250 million worldwide in order to break even.

      Aquaman at $1,148,161,807 and Wonder Woman at $821,847,012 were way bigger hits.
      sigpic

      Comment

      • Hector
        el Hombre de Acero
        • May 19, 2003
        • 31852

        #4
        I can see how you feel about Joker. I have not seen it yet...but I have a feeling it’s going to be a one time viewing as well for me.

        I might be wrong, but that’s my gut feeling for now.
        sigpic

        Comment

        • monitor_ep
          Talkative Member
          • May 11, 2013
          • 7362

          #5
          I read the wiki synopsis about The Joker, but I will wait till it gets released on DVD to watch it. I am not looking forward to it because it really does not make since and now I am afraid DC Cinema will want to move in this direction. A Joker movie without Batman just does not make since in my opinion.
          Visit my wiki site:

          Comic Books in the Media

          To view my custom works of both JLU and Megos go to:

          Monitor_EP Deviantart page

          Action Jackson Road Trip log

          Comment

          • CrimsonGhost
            Often invisible
            • Jul 18, 2002
            • 3568

            #6
            I’m actually annoyed that they are already planning a sequel for Joker. It’s a great stand alone movie. It’s dark and depressing for sure, and the fact that a sequel has been green lit so quickly makes me just think they are still chasing something that sells without worrying about having something to say. Joker had something to say in a way that Marvel movies, for example, do not. Which I guess is kind of funny since the Joker film was so heavily influenced by Taxi Driver.

            You know they’re going to try and jam Batman in a sequel. Does this Joker seem like any competition for Batman? Does Batman even make any kind of sense in a movie like Joker? I think I actually would have liked the Joker better in this film without the Batman references. It didn’t need them and kind of took the realism away from the whole thing.

            I think it just continues to show that DC and/or Warner Bros are rudderless when it comes to movies. I wanted Shazam! to do better. It’s the only DC film I’ve truly enjoyed since...I can’t even remember. Batman Returns?
            Last edited by CrimsonGhost; Dec 4, '19, 1:09 PM.
            Expectation is the death of discovery.

            Comment

            • Wee67
              Museum Correspondent
              • Apr 2, 2002
              • 10586

              #7
              Originally posted by enyawd72
              ...
              ...Don't get me wrong, as a drama it's a fantastic piece of work, but they could have changed all the character names...removed any and all Batman references and simply called it "Clown" and it would have been just as good.
              I think as adults we sometimes forget that we all fell in love with comics and superheroes as children, and like it or not, that is what their original intent was.

              ...So where does JOKER fit into all this? My greatest fear is that because this is arguably DC's biggest hit to date, they will once again course correct without understanding WHY the film was a hit for this specific character, and that they will try to paint the entire DC cinematic universe with this same brush...

              I think perhaps JOKER was a little too relevant to what's going on in today's world. It was an eerily dark reflection of our current reality. I only hope WB realizes that sometimes people go into a darkened theatre to see the LIGHT at the end of the tunnel, to escape from the horrors of reality, and to leave feeling more hopeful than when they went in. This is after all, what superheroes are for.
              I think both your praise and fears are both well founded.

              Joker was an amazing film. And yes, part of the reason why it worked was that it was so disturbing and dark. Seeing a person spiral like that was definitely a punch in the gut and would be hard to watch again. I had a similar reaction to Nolan's Dark Knight- it was an amazing film, but I had difficulty accepting the Joker had indeed turned Harvey Dent (Gotham's hope) and that Batman had to accept responsibility for Dent's death to be "the hero Gotham deserves."

              You are also right that Warner needs to realize that each hero has their own story... and most of them are heroic!

              I do think, though, the Joker (and Batman, for that matter) lend themselves to the potential of this type of storytelling. Both Joker and Batman are driven by the darker motivation of revenge- revenge against crime/chaos in one case and revenge against everyone/life's unfairness/big joke in the other. Warner made the mistake of believing this gray world was the key to the sometimes black and white world of superheroes. They did not get the spirit of each hero's story differs and that most, in fact, resonate with the idea of being a Hero. Wonder Woman and Aquaman worked because they reflected the spirit of each hero. I'm not sure you could've done the Big Red Cheese any other way. Let's see what they do moving forward.
              WANTED - Solid-Boxed WGSH's, C.8 or better.

              Comment

              • J.B.
                Guild Navigator
                • Jun 23, 2010
                • 2881

                #8
                I've lost count of how many times I've seen Apocalypse Now, but I would never see The Deer Hunter again, even though I really enjoyed it and thought it was some of the best acting in any movie I've seen. I realize I'm comparing War movies to Comic Book movies, but I went into Joker knowing it was not your standard Comics flick. None of the trailers lead you to believe this was going to be a feel good, cheer out loud movie. It delivered exactly what it sold.
                You are transparent; I see many things... I see plans within plans.

                Comment

                • palitoy
                  live. laugh. lisa needs braces
                  • Jun 16, 2001
                  • 59200

                  #9
                  Late to the party but yeah, that was one well-made, interesting movie that I'll never watch again.

                  It's success makes me fear that we'll get a slew of "grimdark" again that won't be as well made.
                  Places to find PlaidStallions online: https://linktr.ee/Plaidstallions

                  Buy Toy-Ventures Magazine here:
                  http://www.plaidstallions.com/reboot/shop

                  Comment

                  • Werewolf
                    Inhuman
                    • Jul 14, 2003
                    • 14615

                    #10
                    More unpopular opinions.

                    They should not make super hero movies children can't see. No R rated Marvel and DC movies.

                    Watchmen and Dark Knight Returns have done damage to the genre. DKR certainly damaged both Superman and Batman.

                    Don't make the villain the main character. Society is in a dark enough place right now were the cruelty is the point without glamourizing sociopaths.

                    I'd rather have the harmless camp of Batman 66 and the uplifting 78 Superman than all this soul crushing grimdark.
                    You are a bold and courageous person, afraid of nothing. High on a hill top near your home, there stands a dilapidated old mansion. Some say the place is haunted, but you don't believe in such myths. One dark and stormy night, a light appears in the topmost window in the tower of the old house. You decide to investigate... and you never return...

                    Comment

                    • enyawd72
                      Maker of Monsters!
                      • Oct 1, 2009
                      • 7904

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Werewolf
                      More unpopular opinions.

                      They should not make super hero movies children can't see. No R rated Marvel and DC movies.

                      Watchmen and Dark Knight Returns have done damage to the genre. DKR certainly damaged both Superman and Batman.

                      Don't make the villain the main character. Society is in a dark enough place right now were the cruelty is the point without glamourizing sociopaths.

                      I'd rather have the harmless camp of Batman 66 and the uplifting 78 Superman than all this soul crushing grimdark.
                      Totally agree with this. The adults that grew up with these characters and act as if they belong to them now have stolen them away from the next generation of children.

                      Comment

                      • Earth 2 Chris
                        Verbose Member
                        • Mar 7, 2004
                        • 32498

                        #12
                        ^That's not an unpopular opinion with me.

                        I honestly have a problem with DC releasing Imaginext figures of Batman, then showing off little Bruce Wayne in Batman: Damned.

                        Its why I never cottoned to Marvel Zombies. My son was freaked out by a statue of rotting corpse Spider-Man and Mary Jane in her wedding dress, which was smack dab in the middle of a counter display case at a comic shop we visited. No way to avoid it.

                        Chris
                        sigpic

                        Comment

                        • Werewolf
                          Inhuman
                          • Jul 14, 2003
                          • 14615

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Earth 2 Chris

                          Its why I never cottoned to Marvel Zombies. My son was freaked out by a statue of rotting corpse Spider-Man and Mary Jane in her wedding dress, which was smack dab in the middle of a counter display case at a comic shop we visited. No way to avoid it.
                          Yeah, that statue was vile. No excuse for turning child friendly popular heroes like Superman, Wonder Woman and Spiderman into cannibalistic zombies. At the absolute very least have the good sense not to merchandise it.
                          You are a bold and courageous person, afraid of nothing. High on a hill top near your home, there stands a dilapidated old mansion. Some say the place is haunted, but you don't believe in such myths. One dark and stormy night, a light appears in the topmost window in the tower of the old house. You decide to investigate... and you never return...

                          Comment

                          • Hedji
                            Citizen of Gotham
                            • Nov 17, 2012
                            • 7246

                            #14
                            I am with all of you. Not unpopular at all.

                            How do you feel about Logan? Watchmen? Deadpool? Kick-Arse?

                            I don't like when iconic core characters who once appeared on Saturday Mornings are made edgy or for adults. Like Chris, I feel that is stealing it away from kids. Marvel Zombies? Yecch.

                            But what about characters that may be colorful, but were never intended for kids to begin with? I am entertained by some of them, but I can't stand parenting that allows kids to watch Deadpool or Logan.

                            I dislike the fanbase need for properties to "age with them". But I understand there may be a desire for adult genre fare. I just don't have any interest in seeing childhood heroes and bad guys corrupted by grittiness or adult situations. (Same reason I enjoy ALL Star Wars... because I never expected them to grow up as I age)

                            Comment

                            • Earth 2 Chris
                              Verbose Member
                              • Mar 7, 2004
                              • 32498

                              #15
                              I don't mind "fringe" characters get an adult treatment. I guess its hypocritical of me, because Wolverine was plastered on tons of toys, and there are kiddie versions of him, but he was pretty hardcore as soon as he was given any development. Nothing in Logan seemed "wrong" to me. Batman straight up running over bad guys with the Batmobile in BvS seemed wrong. As dark as the Nolan movies were, it made a point out of explaining Batman's code against murder.

                              Chris
                              sigpic

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              😀
                              🥰
                              🤢
                              😎
                              😡
                              👍
                              👎