AVENGERS: ENDGAME Thoughts and Reviews; The SPOILER Edition

[Brue]

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Personally, I don't think it's Namor, I think it's the undersea Deviants kingdom setting up the Eternals movie in the works.

Have the rights to Namor (which were at Universal not Fox) lapsed yet and come back to Marvel/Disney?

-M

I have no idea who has the right to Namor. But if there is an eternals is in the works, that would make more sense.

It was definitely dropping a hint toward a future movie.

[Brue]

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I realize they are setting us up for Sam to be Cap, but the end scene seemed off. Bucky is the one who knew Steve for life. He would have been the one to come to steve first. They could still make sam cap.

[sprytel]

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I really liked the movie, but I think it has some flaws. I think once the spectacle wears off, people will have a less rosy view of this one.

Off the top of my head:

1. I know I'm already in the minority of folks who loves the Smart Hulk arc, but I thought the Hulk stuff in Endgame was weak. The whole first movie set up this big conflict of Banner's "performance issues"... and it gets resolved offscreen? And the resolution is (apparently) Banner is now Shrek. The classic version of Hulk at least deserved a last hurrah.
2. Hemsworth has great comedic timing, but the Lebowski routine wore thin.
3. I think there was insufficient payoff on the Steve-Tony spat. If Tony had come back from space and said "I almost died. Lot of our friends did. Let's stop fighting" it would have been fine. But instead, Tony comes back from space and he still carries a grudge. And he doesn't so much forgive Cap as he geeks out over the scientific challenge and can't help himself but to come back.

(That isn't to mention a number of minor plot inconsistencies like "sometimes a stone is too powerful for a mortal to hold, sometimes not" or "the appearance of old man Steve breaks the time travel rules they set"... I can overlook those sorts of things in the name of a good story.)

Again... don't get me wrong.... It was an immensely satisfying conclusion to a thoroughly enjoyable run of Marvel movies... I really liked it. And I am certainly not trying to convince anyone that they shouldn't enjoy it.

Just personally, the more I sit with it, I think I have less "OMG that was amazeballs" feels than most of the people I hear talking about this movie. I wonder if others are going to have the same reaction.

[Brue]

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I really liked the movie, but I think it has some flaws. I think once the spectacle wears off, people will have a less rosy view of this one.

Off the top of my head:

1. I know I'm already in the minority of folks who loves the Smart Hulk arc, but I thought the Hulk stuff in Endgame was weak. The whole first movie set up this big conflict of Banner's "performance issues"... and it gets resolved offscreen? And the resolution is (apparently) Banner is now Shrek. The classic version of Hulk at least deserved a last hurrah.

yeah - I agree. the off screen resolution was quite disappointing. I wanted an AHA moment on screen.

2. Hemsworth has great comedic timing, but the Lebowski routine wore thin.

again I agree. they should have allowed him to transition to his godly/heroic role earlier. I think they were going for the character aptly portrayed in the 1988 TV Hulk movie. I enjoyed that version.

3. I think there was insufficient payoff on the Steve-Tony spat.

I think there was TOO much done wrong. They could have wrapped it up quickly, or left them uneasy allies. they did neither.

"the appearance of old man Steve breaks the time travel rules they set"...

My 12 year explained it to me. I thought the same, but in the film they explained that the Cap that was in the movies and the events of his life happened. going back doesn't undo that. basically Cap when back and co lived his life (once frozen cap came back until he left with the infinity stones.)

[torgospizza]

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I thought it was okay. I liked it, but it just seemed like what it was--a Marvel movie where they're trying to wrap things up and give everyone a proper send off in the allocated time. The only issues I had with it were minor--normal humans fighting in a battle against super-powered beings while only using standard melee weapons like spears, the Hulk talking w/ Ruffalo's voice when he has lungs like oil drums, stuff like that. I am glad for Sam he had the Captain mantle passed on to him, but think it works better w/ Bucky's skill set; still, it makes sense in that Sam's always been true-blue, and Bucky's had issues. But what do I know? I guess I'm saying I mildly enjoyed it, and it didn't ruin my childhood or anything.

[LonnieFisher]

My 12 year explained it to me. I thought the same, but in the film they explained that the Cap that was in the movies and the events of his life happened. going back doesn't undo that. basically Cap when back and co lived his life (once frozen cap came back until he left with the infinity stones.)

Steve and Peggy getting married would change everything going forward. Things would not look the same in our time. He would be awol from the military. Peggy not living her life would change everything. The Peggy Carter tv show can't be ignored. She would not have done anything from the show if she was married to Steve. It violates all the rules of time travel.

[Brue]

Steve and Peggy getting married would change everything going forward. Things would not look the same in our time. He would be awol from the military. Peggy not living her life would change everything. The Peggy Carter tv show can't be ignored. She would not have done anything from the show if she was married to Steve. It violates all the rules of time travel.

NO. That is the thing. There would be 2 Steve Rogers in that era. The one in the army would not go AWOL. The timeline we saw happened. It can't be changed. This isn't Back to the Future.
And the Agent Carter show would not be affected if it took place before he came back. And I assume he took on another identity (with Peggy's knowledge)
But what does it matter. That show basically doesn't exist as it is.

[Earth 2 Chris]

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Maybe those kids we saw in the pictures were always intended to belong to Peggy and...Steve? At one time I assumed it was the guy from Agent Carter, but they never said one way or another who the father/husband was.

Chris

[Sideshow Spock]

[Wee67]

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Maybe those kids we saw in the pictures were always intended to belong to Peggy and...Steve? At one time I assumed it was the guy from Agent Carter, but they never said one way or another who the father/husband was.

Chris

Does that mean Steve hooked up with his own grand-niece? (Sharon Carter) Yuch!

[Brue]

Does that mean Steve hooked up with his own grand-niece? (Sharon Carter) Yuch!

I thought he would date her in the movies, but I believe he never did.

[Earth 2 Chris]

^They definitely kissed, hence the hilarious bro nod from Sam and Bucky in Civil War.

Chris

[hedrap]

I out this together a few days ago. I hope it turns out to be true...

https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/bi1uet/theory_endgame_postcredit_sound_and_spiderman_far/

[sprytel]

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Thanks for the vote of confidence on my critique, Brue. Glad to know it wasn't just me.

My 12 year explained it to me. I thought the same, but in the film they explained that the Cap that was in the movies and the events of his life happened. going back doesn't undo that. basically Cap when back and co lived his life (once frozen cap came back until he left with the infinity stones.)

Again, I don't expect a deep exploration of the concept of time travel from a Marvel movie... but...

The "Back to the Future lied to me" scene, and again in the scene with Tilda the Ancient One, they pointed out that changing the past doesn't change their future... it creates an alternate timeline (and only the time machine with the Tony Stark wristband lets you bounce from that alternate timeline back to your own timeline). So even if "our Steve" went back and lived out his days with Peggy, while that timeline's Captain America and the Avengers were off doing their thing... that old man Steve would be sitting on a bench in a different timeline than the one from which Banner and Sam and Bucky sent him.

(Oh, and as I type this... I had been worrying that Captain Marvel may overpowered compared to whatever other heroes she may be paired with. That is part of why they had to keep finding ways to sideline her the whole movie. But that is nothing compared to the Avengers now having a time machine to help solve any problem. My guess is that future movies will just hope we forget about the fact that they have still a time machine.)

[MRP]

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Thanks for the vote of confidence on my critique, Brue. Glad to know it wasn't just me.



Again, I don't expect a deep exploration of the concept of time travel from a Marvel movie... but...

The "Back to the Future lied to me" scene, and again in the scene with Tilda the Ancient One, they pointed out that changing the past doesn't change their future... it creates an alternate timeline (and only the time machine with the Tony Stark wristband lets you bounce from that alternate timeline back to your own timeline). So even if "our Steve" went back and lived out his days with Peggy, while that timeline's Captain America and the Avengers were off doing their thing... that old man Steve would be sitting on a bench in a different timeline than the one from which Banner and Sam and Bucky sent him.

(Oh, and as I type this... I had been worrying that Captain Marvel may overpowered compared to whatever other heroes she may be paired with. That is part of why they had to keep finding ways to sideline her the whole movie. But that is nothing compared to the Avengers now having a time machine to help solve any problem. My guess is that future movies will just hope we forget about the fact that they have still a time machine.)

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My (not so) secret hope is that all the mucking with time leads to an Avengers movie where Kang or Immortus shows up because of it and Kang becomes the central villain/motif of that particular phase of Marvel movies.

-M