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The nightmare that was GI JOE Extreme

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  • Werewolf
    Inhuman
    • Jul 14, 2003
    • 14616

    #16
    Originally posted by palitoy
    I've read similiar things that stated the line was in heavy decline, that's why i wondered where you got your information.
    I'm sure your info is more up to date and accurate than mine. But from what I had understood, while RAH was selling far below its heyday, which is not surprising after so many years, it was still a strong seller overall. I remember also reading that the Kenner team harbored some animosity towards the RAH line because it had been a thorn in Kenner's side for many years before the merger. But that's probably just hearsay.
    Last edited by Werewolf; Mar 1, '19, 8:20 PM.
    You are a bold and courageous person, afraid of nothing. High on a hill top near your home, there stands a dilapidated old mansion. Some say the place is haunted, but you don't believe in such myths. One dark and stormy night, a light appears in the topmost window in the tower of the old house. You decide to investigate... and you never return...

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    • palitoy
      live. laugh. lisa needs braces
      • Jun 16, 2001
      • 59204

      #17
      Originally posted by Werewolf
      I'm sure your info is more up to date and accurate than mine. But from what I had understood, while RAH was selling far below its heyday, which is not surprising after so many years, it was still a strong seller overall. I remember also reading that the Kenner team harbored some animosity towards the RAH line because it had been a thorn in Kenner's side for many years before the merger. But that's probably just hearsay.
      That's probably true and maybe that explains why Extreme feels like someone trying to tank a brand. Like i said, if a line still sells in the millions but trends downward year over year, innovation happens, stuff like Street Fighter 2 and Dinosaur Hunter (God I wish I filled my trunk with those in college) and then failing that, massive rebranding. I think Savage was an earnest effort and it got killed by Extreme way too early.
      Places to find PlaidStallions online: https://linktr.ee/Plaidstallions

      Buy Toy-Ventures Magazine here:
      http://www.plaidstallions.com/reboot/shop

      Comment

      • Werewolf
        Inhuman
        • Jul 14, 2003
        • 14616

        #18
        1992-1994 were again pretty stellar years for RAH. Jump to 44:40. Kirk Bozigian discussing how sales of GI JOE shot up after his live action commercials.



        If you get a chance watch the entire vid. Amazing behind the scenes stuff.
        Last edited by Werewolf; Mar 1, '19, 11:06 PM. Reason: typos
        You are a bold and courageous person, afraid of nothing. High on a hill top near your home, there stands a dilapidated old mansion. Some say the place is haunted, but you don't believe in such myths. One dark and stormy night, a light appears in the topmost window in the tower of the old house. You decide to investigate... and you never return...

        Comment

        • Werewolf
          Inhuman
          • Jul 14, 2003
          • 14616

          #19
          1994 sales video. Sounds like they were still doing pretty good.

          You are a bold and courageous person, afraid of nothing. High on a hill top near your home, there stands a dilapidated old mansion. Some say the place is haunted, but you don't believe in such myths. One dark and stormy night, a light appears in the topmost window in the tower of the old house. You decide to investigate... and you never return...

          Comment

          • palitoy
            live. laugh. lisa needs braces
            • Jun 16, 2001
            • 59204

            #20
            Originally posted by Werewolf
            1992-1994 were again pretty stellar years for RAH. Jump to 44:40. Kirk Bozigian discussing how sales of GI JOE shot up after his live action commercials.
            Those were great ads and Bozigian was great with the brand.

            I highly recommend the book "Toy Wars" if you have any interest in this subject, it's a business book but it's well written and it's about Hasbro and Mattel's internal politics. It also gives you window into what was going on with Joe at the time.

            RAH Joe was still selling for sure but it was still trending down as all things do, it wasn't showing growth. Battle Corps and Star Brigade weren't hits. Joe's 30th surely proved the brand had life in it though and probably had some influence on the Savage concept.

            There is a lot of love from the RAH team on Savage and despite the scale shift, it's good looking and well made.

            Savage also never had a chance because by the time it landed at retail, it was already dead, the Hasbro team had mainly been fired or shuffled. Kenner was going to "save" Joe and well, RAH was back on store shelves within two years, which i still think may have been the plan the Hasbro team had.

            I remember that Bozigian was put in charge of Play-Doh and "Toy Wars" points out what a terrible move that was.

            As for the sales video, they're commercials for the brand, they're not going to point out things are trending down.
            Places to find PlaidStallions online: https://linktr.ee/Plaidstallions

            Buy Toy-Ventures Magazine here:
            http://www.plaidstallions.com/reboot/shop

            Comment

            • PNGwynne
              Master of Fowl Play
              • Jun 5, 2008
              • 19445

              #21
              I haven't thought of Toy Wars in years, I need to pull that off the shelf and reread it. IIRC Hasbro was also struggling with executive changes at the time.
              WANTED: Dick Grayson SI trousers; gray AJ Mustang horse; vintage RC Batman (Bruce Wayne) head; minty Wolfman tights; mint Black Knight sword; minty Launcelot boots; Lion Rock (pale) Dracula & Mummy heads; Lion Rock Franky squared boots; Wayne Foundation blue furniture; Flash Gordon/Ming (10") unbroken holsters; CHiPs gloved arms; POTA T2 tan body; CTVT/vintage Friar Tuck robes, BBP TZ Burgess Meredith glasses.

              Comment

              • Werewolf
                Inhuman
                • Jul 14, 2003
                • 14616

                #22
                Originally posted by palitoy
                There is a lot of love from the RAH team on Savage and despite the scale shift, it's good looking and well made.
                I don't think we are really disagreeing.

                While Sgt. Savage didn't appeal to me because of the scale change (and I do think that didn't help it) I don't think the concept was bad and the toys were nicely done. My point has been RAH had up and down years but things were never dire. My opinion is the Kenner team either had no idea what to do with the brand or they actually tired to sabotage it with the dreadful GI JOE Extreme.

                I get that the sales video was to boast. But what impressed me about the 94 sales video was GI JOE still ranked number 1 with boys 5 to 10, had 87 percent brand recognition and were already mentioning the brand had adult collectors.
                You are a bold and courageous person, afraid of nothing. High on a hill top near your home, there stands a dilapidated old mansion. Some say the place is haunted, but you don't believe in such myths. One dark and stormy night, a light appears in the topmost window in the tower of the old house. You decide to investigate... and you never return...

                Comment

                • palitoy
                  live. laugh. lisa needs braces
                  • Jun 16, 2001
                  • 59204

                  #23
                  I don't think we're disagreeing I just took exception to savage being lumped in with something as wrong headed as "Extreme" and yes, the demographic on collectors was just turning from being primarily 1/6th guys. Probably the reason it returned with a vengeance in 1997.

                  I mean, I played with RAH as a kid and was an adult collector in the mid 90s but I think the big hit came with people 3 years or more younger than me entered the hobby.
                  Places to find PlaidStallions online: https://linktr.ee/Plaidstallions

                  Buy Toy-Ventures Magazine here:
                  http://www.plaidstallions.com/reboot/shop

                  Comment

                  • Earth 2 Chris
                    Verbose Member
                    • Mar 7, 2004
                    • 32498

                    #24
                    Man, I loved those 90s live action commercials. They made me nostalgic for the brand only 5 years or so after I had left it. I did get the 12" Hall of Fame Duke and Snake-Eyes in this period. Thanks for sharing that video Werewolf!

                    Chris
                    sigpic

                    Comment

                    • Werewolf
                      Inhuman
                      • Jul 14, 2003
                      • 14616

                      #25
                      Originally posted by Earth 2 Chris
                      Man, I loved those 90s live action commercials.
                      Me too.

                      My interest had wanned during the Serpentor years. It was these commercials plus the DIC series which brought me back to RAH.
                      You are a bold and courageous person, afraid of nothing. High on a hill top near your home, there stands a dilapidated old mansion. Some say the place is haunted, but you don't believe in such myths. One dark and stormy night, a light appears in the topmost window in the tower of the old house. You decide to investigate... and you never return...

                      Comment

                      • palitoy
                        live. laugh. lisa needs braces
                        • Jun 16, 2001
                        • 59204

                        #26
                        I think the Gulf War also helped renew interest in all things Joe as well. The 12" return to Target stores was also a big deal.
                        Places to find PlaidStallions online: https://linktr.ee/Plaidstallions

                        Buy Toy-Ventures Magazine here:
                        http://www.plaidstallions.com/reboot/shop

                        Comment

                        • enyawd72
                          Maker of Monsters!
                          • Oct 1, 2009
                          • 7904

                          #27
                          I never owned a single Joe as a kid...always thought they were cool but they couldn't compete with MOTU, Secret Wars, and Super Powers.

                          As an adult my favorite Joes are the Sgt. Savage line. Love the WWII theme.
                          I really like Remco's Sgt. Rock line also.

                          Comment

                          • Werewolf
                            Inhuman
                            • Jul 14, 2003
                            • 14616

                            #28
                            Originally posted by palitoy
                            The 12" return to Target stores was also a big deal.
                            I bought a couple of those. They were on those weird modified Jem Rio bodies. Same click joints and little rubbery feet.
                            You are a bold and courageous person, afraid of nothing. High on a hill top near your home, there stands a dilapidated old mansion. Some say the place is haunted, but you don't believe in such myths. One dark and stormy night, a light appears in the topmost window in the tower of the old house. You decide to investigate... and you never return...

                            Comment

                            • ODBJBG
                              Permanent Member
                              • May 15, 2009
                              • 3143

                              #29
                              Sgt. Savage was great, but the figures themselves were a step backwards in construction. Had they been the regular 3 3/4 Joes scaled up, I think it might have lasted better. Though to be fair, the whole thing was an odd choice since everything in that line is so muted and realistic.

                              Extreme was bad, but it was exactly like everything else in the era so it's not like it stands out as a particularly bad move. It was just Kenner trying some things with Joe. Loved a lot of Kenner's stuff, but when Hasbro merged with them and sent Joe to Kenner's gang, it wasn't a success. It also showed how little Hasbro valued Joe.

                              Comment

                              • Spectator
                                Museum Patron
                                • Feb 4, 2019
                                • 108

                                #30
                                Originally posted by ODBJBG
                                It also showed how little Hasbro valued Joe.
                                That's what floored me. My childhood dream was Star Wars figures made by Hasbro (a la GIJoes), instead of Kenner. With Hasbro's purchase of Kenner, suddenly it looked like it was all coming true... and then they go and give GIJoe to Kenner?! WHAT?!

                                Comment

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