Doctor Doom...Movie...?

[Brazoo]

I personally hate the whole "tying him into the Four's origin and giving him powers" thing the movies did. It almost robs him of a valuable asset, here is this guy he hates and blames for everything wrong in his life, who now has super powers.

Inversely, I find it aided the Red Skull, whose comic origin I felt was weak at best.

Absolutely, it makes no sense unless you're a hack screenwriter trying to adhere to some arbitrary Hollywood movie structure rules. Doom's intellect and his determination makes him one of the most powerful villains. He can build any weapon anyway, why would he need powers beyond that?

I actually can't remember the original Red Skull origin, but I thought what they did worked well in the movie.

[palitoy]

Absolutely, it makes no sense unless you're a hack screenwriter trying to adhere to some arbitrary Hollywood movie structure rules. Doom's intellect and his determination makes him one of the most powerful villains. He can build any weapon anyway, why would he need powers beyond that?

Agreed, I also think he should be the sequel villain anyway. Build him up a little.

I actually can't remember the original Red Skull origin, but I thought what they did worked well in the movie.

He basically a bellhop who Hitler saw had evil in his eyes and gave him the job of being the Red Skull. They probably retconned a few times since then but it really felt like an afterthought and I always liked the idea of him being a failed Super Soldier experiment. One of the few times where tying the villain and hero origin works.

Ironically, it was probably inspired by Burton's Batman script and i'm not as fond of that.

[thunderbolt]

I personally hate the whole "tying him into the Four's origin and giving him powers" thing the movies did. It almost robs him of a valuable asset, here is this guy he hates and blames for everything wrong in his life, who now has super powers.

Inversely, I find it aided the Red Skull, whose comic origin I felt was weak at best.

Yeah, its enough that he is tied to Reed from his college days and that is really all that is necessary to set up the conflict. Doom could just have a realllllly bad case of celebrity envy when he sees how famous and successful his old pal that he blames for his disfigurement has become.

[Brazoo]

Agreed, I also think he should be the sequel villain anyway. Build him up a little.

Interesting you say that - I always thought the right structure to do FF properly would be as a trilogy, more based on the first 3 Star Wars movies. Like Vader, Doom should always be the main threat, but the big confrontation shouldn't happen until the end. (Not that I think they really did a truly great job of that conclusion in Jedi either, but the idea was good.)

Ironically, they're kind of doing something like that with Guardians, but in that case I think Thanos is underused. Like, I think each time he shows up I always feel like there's a murmur of comic fans telling non-comic fans "he was in the first one".

Ironically, it was probably inspired by Burton's Batman script and i'm not as fond of that.

It's a weird lesson to take from that, because the one thing Batman should remind producers NOT to do RE: bad guys is don't start a franchise by killing the best villain.

(Though, didn't the origin of Joker and Batman get revised and linked more in the comic continuity over the years too? I seem to recall something about a dude named Red Hood.)

[Brazoo]

Finding ways to personally connect bad guys to the hero is probably lamest and most clumsy in the Spider-Man movies --- but now I feel like I'm accidentally hijacking this thread.

[palitoy]

It's a weird lesson to take from that, because the one thing Batman should remind producers NOT to do RE: bad guys is don't start a franchise by killing the best villain.

(Though, didn't the origin of Joker and Batman get revised and linked more in the comic continuity over the years too? I seem to recall something about a dude named Red Hood.)

Oh what I meant was the "Joker is Joe Chill" twist in '89 Batman. The Red Skull being a super soldier concept came around with the 1990 Cannon film, one of the first Batman imitators.

[Brazoo]

Oh what I meant was the "Joker is Joe Chill" twist in '89 Batman. The Red Skull being a super soldier concept came around with the 1990 Cannon film, one of the first Batman imitators.

Ahhh. Gotcha!

[hedrap]

HE doesn't think he's evil - he think's he's above good and evil.

To me the best Doom has always been a story about THE most brilliant person in the world - he's even smart enough to correctly recognize his own genius - but the human flaw of having an ego about this always puts him on the wrong moral path and also always ends up screwing up his plans.

That's pretty much it. He's like a nation-state version of Ming.

The "Fifth Beatle" thing...Scientist ends up with accidental powers. His immoral rival tries to harnass that method to give him immortal powers...FF or Craven's Swamp Thing?

What makes it inherently lazy is we're talking about the FF, which has more scientific ideas at it's disposal than anything outside the X-Verse. I was fine with FF getting their powers from the Negative Zone, but Doom should be a totally separate power source. The Tibetan cult has huge potential and it gets tossed because producers can't square this idea that the dark arts and outer space can exist in the same reality.

[jwyblejr]

Really,how hard is it to do a movie for the FF? Start out with Reed and Victor in college,have the accident,flash forward to today. Reed builds his own spaceship because NASA doesn't any more,go to space,something goes wrong,they get their powers. Mole Man shows up,have their fight,end showing Doom getting the mask and setting up for the sequel. Simple.

[Earth 2 Chris]

^You pretty much described the Corman movie.

But honestly, with a budget, it would have been near perfect.

Chris

[clemso]

I take it you've all watched the Doctor Doom fan movie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXVJfBnG0bw