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Marvel Team-Up: The Movie. Cool. But it's wild how the winds have shifted. For decades, Spidey was Marvel's bell cow. Now Marvel Studios is using IronMan/Stark/Downey Jr. as insurance to sell seats at to a Spider-Man movie.
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Hahaha...and here I was trying to take the cup half-full approach by talking about Keaton.
It ain't new with me. Marvel has been making the most expensive TV ever. If the FB populous is griping, chalk it up to law of diminishing returns.Comment
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I see a lot of potential (I'm a snob, not a hater, big difference
), HOWEVER, I think I am starting to see a trend.
My first thought was 'Marvel has NEVER figured out how to make a Spiderman movie ( they pulled off Antman! How is this hard?), perhaps if Iron Man carries the movie they don't have to try so hard.'
What other Iconic Marvel Character kept getting re-booted and failing....? PUNISHER! After a slew of embarrassing films (again, how is this hard? start the movie with 'this is my Boomstick!' and be a badass for 2 hours, roll credits. You're Welcome, Marvel), they integrate him into Daredevil, a show that Marvel already knew would do great and Punisher is just garnish on a great series carried by a different character. The same could be argued for Elecktra cuz she actually worked this time, but I don't count it quite as much since she's part of his plotline anyways.
I'll bet they will do this everytime they get stuck on a character. "Bring in a heavy hitter so people will like the movie!" You could look at it as a low risk high profit investment, or Marvel leaning on just a few characters to hold up MU.
Which would be very unfortunate, but I can't say that my beloved DC Universe is looking any better.
-DianaLast edited by The Re-Rooter; Mar 28, '17, 11:26 PM.Comment
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The Marvel shared universe is a double edged sword, because with each new hero, you now need to explain "Why aren't the rest of the Avengers helping deal with this?"
Ant Man solved that problem by making a smaller movie (no pun intended) where a solo plot made sense. Winter Soldier just tried to hand wave it away, though, and it didn't quite work. So I'm curious how they approach the issue with this one. There is a lot of Iron Man in the trailer, sure... but those scenes seem to be establishing a plausible explanation for Spidey being on his own for this one. I wonder if Stark will truly be as prominent as the trailer suggests.
Holland sure plays a great Spider-Man, though. Nice to have a Spidey that actually looks and acts like a high school student, and not a middle-aged shoe salesman...Comment
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OMGee I always think of that too! I love Agents of Shield and I know they think Coulson is dead, blah blah, but it created such a schism between the show and it's presence in the movies that almost over complicates it. An Avenger NEVER drops in? Shield NEVER calls up the Avengers when an omnipotent life form starts mind controlling mutants? (oh EXCUSE ME, "enhanced people"; good job on selling your own rights away, Marvel).
I wish the cohesion could occur outside of the movies as well. I would never expect RDJ to show up because he would cost too much, but what about Cap? I think Coulson loves Cap too much to keep playing dead....
....but I digress...
what were we talking about?Comment
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Having watched the trailer a few times, I think the MCU folks handled Spidey's integration in the best way possible. It's a nod to the Civil War comics, but improves on the concept of having Spider-Man suddenly hero-worship Stark enough to ditch his secret ID. That was incredibly stupid. But by casting Spidey as a very young, green hero, it allows the Stark-worship to work, and it gives them a device to intro Spidey without it being weird that he existed in the MCU this whole time, we just didn't see him. That would have been anti-climatic and brought up lots of questions like "what was he doing in the first Avengers film while New York was under attack?".
As for backlash, unfortunately I think it's human nature. We as a people put things up on pedestals and keep them there for quite a bit. Then we get tired of them and start wanting to tear them down, usually through no fault of their own. It's ugly, but it's true, and it repeats over and over and over with any popular fad or movement.
ChrisComment
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^I don't think that's fair Chris. Just because somebody doesn't like every single idea that's presented in the MCU doesn't mean there's a backlash, or that they're a hater. I love all the Marvel movies to date...some more than others for sure, and if I'm being critical it's because I want it to succeed, not because I want to tear it down.Comment
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I wasn't aiming it at anyone here. There does seem to be a turn on "the web" against the MCU all of a sudden. I think the points being made here are valid, but there is a great rumbling out there that suddenly seems to WANT these films to fail just because they've been TOO successful. I know the criticism leveled here is trying to be constructive.
Sorry that it came across this way.
ChrisComment
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Personally I think the theatrical Civil War and the comic Civil War are so incredibly different, I'm a little lost on why Spider-man's portrayal has to really be a consideration in that entire dynamic, since the heart of the issue in the comics were all the heroes had SECRET IDENTITIES. Almost nonexistent in the theatrical realm. And Spider-man never unmasked for anyone here. I think Marvel's whole idea of weaving ANOTHER origin into that tale is where the rubber fails to meet the road. Having Spider-man admire Stark hardly needs to be intertwined with him creating his iconic look of Spider-man.
I grew up watching the '67 series on it's first run and watched Peter Parker mature in the comics through the 60's and 70's. His origin is as personal and as well read as it gets. So from my vantage point, having Stark come in and be this father-figure for Parker really diminishes his reason for being Spider-man to start. Parker's motivations for accountability are born by the tragedy of losing his uncle due to his negligence. That suit he creates represents him embracing that ideal - With great power comes great responsibility. So now he has to learn why the suit is relevant through Stark? Really?! So now hero-worship becomes the motivation to become Spider-man? He was just an odd dressed vigilante and it took Stark to give him style points? For me it just becomes too inclusive for Stark to be all things to all heroes. No wonder he's an alcoholic! He now has to be the tailor for everyone who shows up with a super power. Who takes over the world the day this man goes on vacation?
Ultimately I don't think any of this is done to freshen an old story line. It's done to justify the continuation of ensemble films so you always get more than one hero and to further the ultimate goal of selling TOYS. Changing story arcs to facilitate merchandising models is plenty reason to be cynical when I read changes like this. It's so unnecessary and does not service the Civil War narrative at all. The only thing the theatrical version has right with the comics is the title with a very convoluted construct of the ideology they are feuding about. It's an incredibly lose interpretation at best. They're just cherry picking little moments to allude to this notion it's comic inspired. But in truth they're making it up as they go along.Last edited by MIB41; Mar 29, '17, 9:24 AM.Comment
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I don't mind the Iron Man stuff. To me it makes sense. The MCU is built around Stark, so it makes sense to integrate Spidey through him. I can see that it could rub people wrong though.
After all the never-ending Richard Parker/OSCORP stuff from the ASM films that ultimately went nowhere, I'm all in for some elements that we know will get played off down the line in future films.
ChirsComment
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Exactly. For me, I think characters can have a shared universe without having to be interlinked to justify their presence. Eventually that excuse runs dry and that staleness poisons the entire product. Just let them coexist and lets move on. I don't think you get this much domestic collusion even in the back hills of Kentucky.
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I just had a thought. What if they're going with the notion that Peter's parents were SHIELD agents and Tony knew them and is trying to watch out for Peter?Comment
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Stark is filling the Mr Fantastic role for the MCU, but the MCU's portrayal of Stark doesn't fit to be the conscience. Great Power/Great Responsbility. Stark hasn't got much right. He should be a Demon In A Bottle/Armors Wars Stark by now. Maybe that's coming. I'm not betting on it. The mentor role for Spidey works better with Cap.Comment
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