after 13 plus years...

[enyawd72]

As a business owner once an employee tells me they are moving on, I show them the door.

Not because I am a jerk of a boss or a jerk of a person, but once a person has made their mind up to move on, their mind is on their new job and not on the job I am paying them for.

You took a new job for a reason. Move on if you think the grass is greener and be glad they paid your severance.

Your employer owes you nothing more than the salary they paid you for your work. And, it sounds like they did that.

Put yourself in their shoes for a minute and ask yourself if you'd want a disgruntled employee to continue to work for you while they have this other job lined up. Why would I want that person to continue to work for me and tell other employees about their new job and how good it will be and how bad it is here working for me? That is one problem I as an employer do not need.

There are two sides to this story people. I hope I was able to shed light on the side of the employer.

Austin

Well, that says just about all there is to say about your mind set. Let me tell you something Austin. Every company I've ever worked for, and the one my wife works for now, have a policy regarding layoffs...they tell you five minutes before quitting time on a Friday not to come in Monday. No notice. Nothing. Their reasoning? If you know you'll be out of a job in two weeks you'll try to "get even" with the company. They just assume the worst of you. Then there was a place I worked for back in 2001. Euclid Refinishing. The company fell on hard times. They had to let people go. The owners, Ed and June Yusko, called everyone into the lunchroom...explained the situation and told us we would be out of jobs in two weeks. They said they understood we all had bills to pay and if we needed time off to look for another job, attend an interview, whatever...no problem. The would pay us for any time we missed. Every person in that lunchroom was moved to tears by the kindness, understanding, and generosity of those two people. They treated us like human beings and not some disposable commodity to be thrown away like trash. Some of us found other jobs more quickly than others. But EVERY SINGLE ONE of us stayed at Euclid Refinishing til the very end, and worked as hard as we ever did, because those two people deserved nothing less from us.

You just think about that the next time you show someone the door.

[megowgsh]

Well, that says just about all there is to say about your mind set. Let me tell you something Austin. Every company I've ever worked for, and the one my wife works for now, have a policy regarding layoffs...they tell you five minutes before quitting time on a Friday not to come in Monday. No notice. Nothing. Their reasoning? If you know you'll be out of a job in two weeks you'll try to "get even" with the company. They just assume the worst of you. Then there was a place I worked for back in 2001. Euclid Refinishing. The company fell on hard times. They had to let people go. The owners, Ed and June Yusko, called everyone into the lunchroom...explained the situation and told us we would be out of jobs in two weeks. They said they understood we all had bills to pay and if we needed time off to look for another job, attend an interview, whatever...no problem. The would pay us for any time we missed. Every person in that lunchroom was moved to tears by the kindness, understanding, and generosity of those two people. They treated us like human beings and not some disposable commodity to be thrown away like trash. Some of us found other jobs more quickly than others. But EVERY SINGLE ONE of us stayed at Euclid Refinishing til the very end, and worked as hard as we ever did, because those two people deserved nothing less from us.

You just think about that the next time you show someone the door.

Dwayne,

you're talking about laying employees off and I am talking about employees giving their notice. Two completely different things. The way Euclid handled it sounds like the way I would.

Peace,

Austin

[megowgsh]

And now my former employer had to deal with the fallout of the badwill they demonstrated by going about this the way they did. The place was not some cutthroat insurance sales place or whatever, it was supposed to be all touchy feely and nice. Its all good and I'm moving on to what should be a new challenge and a better working environment. The bump in pay and perks doesn't hurt either.

No matter how they handled the situation there would be problems. They chose the path they felt would cause the fewest "ripples in the water".

It's not easy being the boss. Maybe that's why most people never become one.

[enyawd72]

Dwayne,

you're talking about laying employees off and I am talking about employees giving their notice. Two completely different things. The way Euclid handled it sounds like the way I would.

Peace,

Austin

No Austin...not different at all. If you treat people with kindness and respect, you'll get kindness and respect in return. People change jobs for many reasons...most of the time it's not because they're unhappy. Of course, how would you know that? When a person turns in their notice do you even ask? If someone is good enough to give you a heads up that they're leaving, you should be good enough to allow them to finish their two weeks.

Also, you should know that terminating an employee who gives two weeks notice entitles them to collect unemployment that they would not have been able to otherwise had they been allowed to leave voluntarily.

[enyawd72]

It's not easy being the boss. Maybe that's why most people never become one.

I'm a boss...and I would NEVER do what you said. It's just not right.

[palitoy]

Having been in this situation easily 50 times in my career, I do understand Austin's point.

Sometimes the person repays the kindness, trains the new person and leaves the place in good standing. It is the majority BUT....

Other times, they get vindictive or just check out completely and leave with their middle finger high in the air. One employee sent out nasty emails about the company, another stole customer info (and tried to delete all the files on his computer) that he sold to a competitor and another one just stashed all company mail in hiding places, I'm talking THOUSANDS of pieces of mail. Some people are entitled beyond repair. Every time I trusted them to do the right thing and exit professionally.

I've always been accommodating but i'd say 1/3 of the time, people take advantage and it's cost me severely.

[megowgsh]

I'm a boss...and I would NEVER do what you said. It's just not right.

Why does everything have to be discussed in "absolutes" with you?!

My experience tells me that if somebody gives me their notice I'm going to pay them their severance and send them on their way. No hard feelings (most of the time), but send them on their way nonetheless. My experience tells me to not take a chance because I've been burned before and I've seen other people and businesses get burned as well. Unfortunately, the bad employees spoil it for the good ones. And, I'm not taking any chances. This is my livelihood we're talking about here.

If you've never experienced this, good for you! It doesn't mean I'm a bad boss or a bad person, nor does it mean that you're a great boss or a great person (which your words imply and I take great offense to). You imply that all employees are wonderful and would never do anything bad as they're walking out the door. Bull-dinky!

I have been in management for close to 25 years and have owned my own business for 10. I wish it was all puppy dogs and fairy dust, but it is not.

And, by the way, (no offense to Joe) did you ever think that maybe, just maybe they were glad to see Joe leave? I've considered Joe one of my best friend's on this forum for the better part of 20 years and cannot imagine him being a bad employee, but sometimes people just rub other people the wrong way and maybe this was one of those instances. I don't know. But, obviously Joe wanted to leave. And, I wish him nothing but the best!

[Spawn67]

Well at least you give someone a severance package before you let them go. I've had many jobs where I was at for many years where I got absolutely nothing when I left even when it was on good terms.
By the way did it ever occur to you Austin that some bosses do not work harder than there employees? Maybe so in your business that you own but not in many jobs that I have had. ( to be fair these bosses eventually got fired or there businesses soon crashed)...
Yes there are employees that leave on bad terms but there are also managers that were the cause of there actions.
I was let go of my last job because my mangers ego was hurt because I knew more than they did about the job. They thought they could get anyone to do it for cheap so they let all the long term employees go and hired a bunch of college aged kids....turnover soon after went high were it was at 5% before...fast forward 4 years later several of these mangers were fired and some are not doing so well nowadays and the company...well it went bankrupt last year due to lawsuits..
Me on the other hand I have a job I love where I travel the country and the world and go to places I never thought I would. These past 4 years have been the best in my working career. And I'm actually treated like a adult not a child.
So yes I extend my middle finger to those managers and bosses I typed about whether it's immature or not but karma has a way of rearing its head when you least expect it...
Anyway about to pack my bags for the Bahamas while I conduct some business..
Later...

[knight errant00]

Having shifted from a lot of places over the years -- sometimes jumping, sometimes being pushed -- I'll say this much: when I put in my notice, I expect to work that time or be paid for it. Austin, if that's your policy, fine. Typically, I leave for better opportunity, not because I'm disgruntled. And usually, they need me to help transition someone into managing my work. Which I'm happy to do because I'm a professional. Telling me to pack up now and get out and you'll pay me the two weeks on top of whatever unused vacation etc. I'm owed? I'll go. And my estimation if the place is dropped, since they clearly don't know or "get"' me.

As I joked with one old boss of mine, I'm no vandal, and I'm not going to damage your company on my way out. That's actually insulting because you're underestimating me -- were I to turn my abilities to Evil, I'd be a master villain, and anything I might do has been in place since long before I gave my notice . . .

[madmarva]

Good luck, Joe, with the new job. Hope everything works out great.

[Random Axe]

Austin isn't wrong on this and neither is Dwayne. It's all situational. It's also something I never really had to deal with. I've terminated associates for a variety of reasons, but once an employee makes a two week notice official and in writing the employer is obligated to honor that timeframe or pay the associate forward for time scheduled until the end of the notice term. I know that's Ohio law, but I think it's universal.

[thunderbolt]

No matter how they handled the situation there would be problems. They chose the path they felt would cause the fewest "ripples in the water".

It's not easy being the boss. Maybe that's why most people never become one.

Trust me, they caused more ripples and lost more respect of the employees still there.

[enyawd72]

Why does everything have to be discussed in "absolutes" with you?!

Because I'm a simpleton...or maybe just naive. I don't believe in pre-emptive discipline. That's probably why I've been burned a few times by other people. But I have a very clear view of what I think is right and wrong. I know there are bad employees out there...I've had to deal with them myself when it's deserved, but I refuse to punish good people "just in case" they turn out to be bad. I think it's wrong.

[Godzilla]

I think it very much depends on the field in which you work. I work in the medical field and teach at a university and both areas typically see notices in terms of months with 1 to 6 months being common. That's based on the responsibilities that have to be transitioned, a new job usually means a move across country, and moving happens once classes are done (during winter/ summer breaks). I think I have seen only 3 transitions go badly in my years in this field. When they do go badly, that stigma will follow you around forever.

I just left last Friday a horrible situation at a job I had been at for about 8.5 years. Not only did I work on clinical cases until nearly 5pm on my last day, but I also have multiple projects with people at my old job that I will continue to work on now that I'm gone. I gave a months notice due to crappy circumstances and that was considered fast.

[megomania]

Austin isn't wrong on this and neither is Dwayne. It's all situational. It's also something I never really had to deal with. I've terminated associates for a variety of reasons, but once an employee makes a two week notice official and in writing the employer is obligated to honor that timeframe or pay the associate forward for time scheduled until the end of the notice term. I know that's Ohio law, but I think it's universal.

There is no requirement under Federal Law **although I'm sure there are state exceptions**

http://www.workplacefairness.org/final-pay#2

2. If I give my employer a two-week notice of the date of my termination, can my employer fire me before the end of those two weeks and not pay me?

Yes. Most employees, unless under a contractual agreement, are employees at will and can be terminated at any time. Generally, companies will honor the two-week notice and pay the employee for the last two weeks even if the employer does not allow the employee to work during that time period. However, there is no federal law which requires the employer to pay employees or even allow them to work during that two-week notice period.