Boycotting CBS/Paramount's Star Trek Beyond and ongoing productions

[PNGwynne]

I don't agree with Paramount's decision on fan films, but I don't agree with your justification of your behavior, either. You didn't actually boycott the film--in fact, you say you liked it after seeing it illegally. And IMO past purchases and support are no justification for that current behavior. You could have waited and seen it for free on TV later, after this anniversary year that seems to influence your ethics.

[warlock664]

I own or have previously owned Star Trek on ViewMaster reels, VHS, DVD, and now Blu-ray sets. That's OWN, where I bought it brand new at full price and have it residing right there on my shelves. So I don't think there's any room to get on a high horse about me refusing to pay money to see the latest film. I've paid a significant amount of good money for Star Trek merchandise my entire life, putting it gladly into CBS/Paramount's coffers. And I would gladly continue to do so, if they hadn't mucked up the 50th Anniversary year so badly and sunk the prospects of decent fan films for the future.


--SKot

I love it when people attempt to justify their illegal actions by citing previous legal purchases, as if that makes it right. If you had any real conviction, you would've honored your "boycott" by withholding both your money and your attention to the movie. Sneaking in to watch is stealing, plain and simple. If I'm on a "high horse", it's not due to your refusal to support CBS/Paramount with your money, it's because you chose instead to steal their product and then post about it here as though you'd taken some great moral stand.

[Nostalgiabuff]

Now this doesn't make any sense whatsoever. I'm willing to bet that nearly every single person involved in those fan films has probably spent gobs of money on Star Trek product as well, and probably owns every single episode of every single series as well as every single movie, most likely on Blu-ray for the best viewing experience. The sole reason they're even making those fan films is because they want more!

Nothing to do with anybody "stealing their [CBS/Paramount's] product" at all. Unless you are talking about the fan films themselves as being stolen product, and there I'll have to disagree with you.

It's a classic case of CBS/Paramount biting the hand that feeds them...merely because the letter of the law says that fans' hands in this case are legally on the menu.

--SKot

first off, I think Paramount could have found a better solution. but whether all of the people involved have bought Trek product in the past is completely irrelevant. they were using the intellectual property of Paramount without permission and that is all there is to it

[The Bat]

I've seen the "fan films"...they suck! No loss.

[PNGwynne]

I don't know which ones you've seen; the scripts and production can vary. But some are slick, well-written, entertaining, and have good casts--even Trek veterans. I guess I'm more tolerant/encouraging of that "Let's put on a show about something we care about" creativity than some Trek purists might be.

[palitoy]

It's a classic case of CBS/Paramount biting the hand that feeds them...merely because the letter of the law says that fans' hands in this case are legally on the menu.

Not really, they have to protect themselves from entitled fans who try and claim any sort of ownership down the line. I personally see it as a potential nightmare. Fans crossed the line in charging for the product and Paramount was forced to protect their IP. The law is the law and this was far from frivolous or the act of an "evil corporation".

As much those people bought GOBS of trek merchandise, it's never going to be their toy in the sandbox.

[rykerw1701]

Not really, they have to protect themselves from entitled fans who try and claim any sort of ownership down the line. I personally see it as a potential nightmare. Fans crossed the line in charging for the product and Paramount was forced to protect their IP. The law is the law and this was far from frivolous or the act of an "evil corporation".

As much those people bought GOBS of trek merchandise, it's never going to be their toy in the sandbox.

I completely agree. The fan films went too far, and Paramount had to protect its license or they could loose it. Just because some fans feel proprietary towards the Trek universe doesn't mean it's their's to do with what they please.

While some of the rules Paramount put down about future fan films were odd, like the requirement of licensed props (would 5 more Diamond Select Phasers really make a bottom line difference?) they at least kept the door open to some degree to future efforts.

[palitoy]

That being said, it wasn't the best PR situation in the world. Lucas handled that stuff way better but as I was once told by a judge "There is no such thing as moral court".

[LonnieFisher]

If watching a movie for free is stealing, then the other side of the coin is...
Refunding money for a movie that is rotten. I would like to point out that the studio is stealing money from customers that get the movies that are bad. If they won't return money for rotten movies, they don't deserve money for the viewing.
You are getting ripped off at the theaters. They aren't making movies on film anymore, they are digital. The cost has been reduced for the production of the movies sent to theaters, without the cost of shipping the films to and from theaters. There is no more cost of disposal of the actual film product. I ran a projection booth for years, and have been physically harmed by handling the films. I got a hernia moving a Lord Of The Rings movie. And other injuries. Anyway, hundreds of thousands of dollars are not being spent by the studios to transport and create the actual films, so the price should have gone down on the movies.
(I'll end my little rant here, feel free to ignore me!)

[warlock664]

If watching a movie for free is stealing, then the other side of the coin is...
Refunding money for a movie that is rotten. I would like to point out that the studio is stealing money from customers that get the movies that are bad. If they won't return money for rotten movies, they don't deserve money for the viewing.
You are getting ripped off at the theaters. They aren't making movies on film anymore, they are digital. The cost has been reduced for the production of the movies sent to theaters,

You'd actually expect the theaters to cut the cost of seeing a movie because they're paying less to show it? The only way that's going to happen is if people stop going to the multiplexes, and they're forced to take action to increase attendance. It doesn't cost them $8 for a bucket of popcorn either, but as long as people pay it they aren't lowering the price.
And yes, viewing a movie for free that you're supposed to pay an admission fee for is stealing, same as illegally downloading music or movies online is stealing.

[PNGwynne]

How did Lucas handle this? Because Paramount is punishing all fans, not just the mercenary ones.

[palitoy]

How did Lucas handle this? Because Paramount is punishing all fans, not just the mercenary ones.

Lucasfilm was just slightly more "hands on" from the start, embraced it and I think it worked better overall as a PR thing. I mean they have an awards show and just went out of their way to encourage the right kind of fan film. They'd still sue your *** if you try to sell your productions.

Paramount was probably too slow to acknowledge this cottage industry that hath sprung forth.

As for the all fans comment, you can't cherry pick when you have to start laying legal ground rules. It's like turning on a sprinkler, all blades of grass are gonna get wet.

[SKotK]

*Whew*...my chair's getting a little hot here.

I love it when people attempt to justify their illegal actions by citing previous legal purchases, as if that makes it right. If you had any real conviction, you would've honored your "boycott" by withholding both your money and your attention to the movie. Sneaking in to watch is stealing, plain and simple. If I'm on a "high horse", it's not due to your refusal to support CBS/Paramount with your money, it's because you chose instead to steal their product and then post about it here as though you'd taken some great moral stand.

I wouldn't call it so much a "moral stand" as a "hey CBS/Paramount, you suck for what you're doing to the fans and you might want to rethink it" stand.

The fact is, I was very interested in the movie and I wanted to see it. I did not want to give CBS/Paramount my money. I was going to see the film one way or another anyway - in fact, I had an invitation from a work-related company for a free showing regardless. I would have seen it somehow. Should I feel bad about that?

I don't agree with Paramount's decision on fan films, but I don't agree with your justification of your behavior, either. You didn't actually boycott the film--in fact, you say you liked it after seeing it illegally. And IMO past purchases and support are no justification for that current behavior. You could have waited and seen it for free on TV later, after this anniversary year that seems to influence your ethics.

Quite right; I loved the film! I certainly didn't want to NOT see it...I just didn't want my money to go to Paramount/CBS. I was never boycotting the content of the film (although some other people apparently were). And I didn't care to wait to see it, either. The opportunity arose after I'd paid to see another film, so I snuck in and saw it. Would I make a habit out of that? Certainly not. Have I ever snuck into a theater to see a film in my life before? Never. Have I ever even protested a movie before? Nope...first time ever.

Now, if you look at the situation from a simple black/white, good/evil, for us/against us perspective then I suppose I can't justify my actions in any way that would satisfy you. So it would be pointless of me to try. I'm just wondering how many glass houses we have out there. How many of you have never snuck into a movie before, not even when you were kids and that kind of thing was less tightly monitored? How many of you can say you've never downloaded a movie, song, or piece of software in your lives? Can I see a show of hands?

If you've got your hand up, congratulations...you're a rare individual. You can cast the first stone.

first off, I think Paramount could have found a better solution. but whether all of the people involved have bought Trek product in the past is completely irrelevant. they were using the intellectual property of Paramount without permission and that is all there is to it

I agree with the first part of that for sure, Nostalgiabuff. I also agree that when it comes to Axanar, they were pushing it a little too far and needed to be knocked down a peg or two. But when it comes to the other fan films out there that weren't causing any trouble and making no profit, that's where I get upset. Paramount could have taken the Lucasfilm route and let the harmless fan projects happen. Instead, they brought down the hammer on everyone...and that flat-out sucks.

Yes, they had the right to do so. But did they need to? No. Like you said, they could have found a better solution.

Not really, they have to protect themselves from entitled fans who try and claim any sort of ownership down the line. I personally see it as a potential nightmare. Fans crossed the line in charging for the product and Paramount was forced to protect their IP. The law is the law and this was far from frivolous or the act of an "evil corporation".

As much those people bought GOBS of trek merchandise, it's never going to be their toy in the sandbox.

And I tend to agree with you completely, Palitoy, when it comes to Axanar. They crossed the line not just in terms of money, but in terms of even being a fan productions. They were veering into the territory of a professional, money-making production.

But something like Star Trek Continues? That should be left alone. They are doing good work and promoting the IP in a fantastic way, for free. The same with other similar fan productions. But instead, CBS/Paramount felt they had to create restrictions that they knew would by definition destroy those productions. And that, again, sucks.

* * * * *

Regardless of everyone's stance on this (and I knew people would differ), I do really like seeing the kind of thoughtful debate it has stirred up. Nothing is black & white...there are two sides to everything. The important thing is that you think about it before you make up your mind.

And I realize I can't go on boycotting CBS/Paramount forever. I never intended to. In the end, I'd only be hurting myself continuing to punch that brick wall. At some point, I need my Star Trek back. All I hoped for was that a few people would take a stand against the decision CBS/Paramount made on fan films by not buying a ticket for Star Trek Beyond when it was released. And it sounds like that may have happened to some degree. Maybe, just maybe, CBS/Paramount will feel that a bit and consider their next move more carefully. In the meantime, I'm upholding my stand against buying their products until the end of the anniversary year at least. If I decide to take a stand against the upcoming 2017 Star Trek series, it will be for different reasons.

--SKot

[PNGwynne]

Since you asked, my hand is raised.

[samurainoir]

You are getting ripped off at the theaters. They aren't making movies on film anymore, they are digital. The cost has been reduced for the production of the movies sent to theaters, without the cost of shipping the films to and from theaters. There is no more cost of disposal of the actual film product.

We're wandering a bit from the topic, but just a bit of a devil's advocate here. My wife had the smallest hand, in the smallest fraction of the components that comprise the DLP technology used in theatrical digital projection. I don't pretend to understand the nuts and bolts of it all, BUT I do know that the (ongoing) development of this technology across decades, has high costs, as does the manufacture and implementation of it. The loss of the physical media itself doesn't mean that there isn't a great deal of software and hardware development and components needed to make digital projection happen in theatres across the continent. ALL theatres needed to be upgraded in the past 15 years (and are often constantly upgraded to some extent, at any given level in the chain) with this constantly evolving technology, installations, testing, etc. all stages have costs associated.

Also, having once worked at one of the largest production facilities/film-colour labs in "Hollywood North", prior to digital, i'd feel confident in saying printing and shipping a few thousand physical film prints across north america really would be a drop in the bucket when it comes to a film like Star Trek Beyond, which likely has a $350,000,000 budget once you add together production costs with advertising. Even when you add in say, cost of security for those cans of film in transit, or the hourly wage of the projectionists.... does that amount (hundreds of thousands) even come close to, for example, the costs of salaries for the above the marquee stars of the film? Divide that hundreds of thousands of dollars, among the hundreds of millions of dollars needed for these blockbuster budget films to reach profitability... I honestly don't see that as an impact on each $10 - $18 individual ticket sale.... at best it's a dime or a quarter? and that's for the films that would make money, in a climate where more films released are financial flops than there are genuine blockbuster hits.

I'd say the biggest impact on the loss of physical projected film is not the manufacture and distribution costs of that physical media, but in the lead time, since as you say, digital theatrical film distribution is close to instantaneous now, with many directors mentioning in interviews that they can now continue editing films up to the night before release, whereas previously it needed to be locked months prior to release. I'm actually shocked (especially with things like alternate home release cuts for Suicide Squad) that they aren't continuing to adjust the films during the theatrical life of the film. Imagine if, after the drop-off in audience share after the third or fourth week, if they had released this "Ultimate Cut" of Suicide Squad or whatever theatrically? Or maybe a version of the reboot Ghostbusters with Thor's entire musical number inserted in. Maybe THAT would have crossed the threshold into profit for all these films?