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Remember when Marvel killed Peter Parker? The creators said he was dead for good. Who's Spider-Man right now?
Chris
Chris
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Small flaw in the backstory...
Cap lifted and used Thor's hammer. I doubt any Hydra agent could do that. Just a thought.I almost had a psychic girlfriend but she dumped me before we met.
If anyone here believes in psychokinesis, please raise my hand.Comment
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^A-ha!!! Good point.
I'm betting this is Red Skull in a cloned body again. This ain' the first "Cap is a traitor" rodeo we've been on. That goes back to a Gil Kane drawn run by Stan in the 60s. They never went this far back into the origin, but still...
ChrisComment
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I hope. if they're as committed to the story as they indicate, and have been laying down the groundwork for it for a year as they've said, that it's not a clone (bad Cap only thinks he's Cap) or brainwash (Cap is made to believe he's been in Hydra this whole time) story because that would just be BS. With that approach, you might as well just have Sharon Carter wake up from a dream to find Steve in the shower. Or next to Bob Newhart.
And Hue, I respectfully disagree on the film vs comic book issue -- yes, different media, and yes, different audiences with different expectations. But Captain America should be Captain America, Superman should be Superman, regardless of he format of the story making Cap essential the first Thuderbolt instead of the First Avenger, if you will, is a needless and damaging retcon that then ends up being retconned later. All I meant was that I'd like to see more Captain America stories like TFA or the classic issues of Invaders or Avengers and less Watchmen.Comment
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Honestly who cares lol, I've only gotten 4 newer comics since the early 80's (Secret Wars era) and that was JLA vs Avengers. They're all crap crap crap! So happy I put my money in the golden and silver age comics instead of this new stuff they throw out since!Comment
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Spencer has no justification for taking a character created by two jewish kids in '30's that was deliberately meant as propaganda against Hitler and saying it was all a ruse. Just read the interview...
His answer is "Tom Breevort wouldn't let me do anything bad"...but started by stating this will have a lasting effect. It can't be both. He can't admit that his hook is the "super-soldier" serum plus a blonde, blue-eyed kid. It's too superficial. He's retconning the idea and at some point, him or Breevort will blame 1940's America as to why Kirby and Simon couldn't use a more jewish character. At that point, they will introduce one because outside of that, I honestly do not know how Ike was talked into going along with this. There's no way he would sign off on a change like this if there wasn't a guaranteed swerve or he wasn't trying to screw with Fiege.
...and Spencer is a con man. Sorry if I'm not supposed to say that about industry people, but he is. I remember reading about this dude years ago. He's a deadbeat nightclubber from Cincy who bankrupted a few businesses and took off. How in ten years he's writing Cap says how smooth of a huckster he is. I feel bad for the legit artists in the industry, cause he's not one to me and never will be. Guaranteed he bolts for Los Angeles once this Cap mess gets really out of control. And Breevort should be canned for this. Not due to cannon but the insult to Kirby and Simon.Comment
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Why can't they just make it a "What if.....?" series for the story? I think people at Marvel should get fired over it.Comment
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Expectation is the death of discovery.Comment
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Yeah, not happy about this at all. They're totally screwing with the character's very essence.
Definitely fire the jokers responsible for this dire aberration of a storyline.
PUNY HUMANS!Comment
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^^I've been thinking that, too -- this is a GREAT idea for an issue (or three) of What If? or a DC-style Elseworlds story. Honestly, I'm just o the point where I think both companies should create an in-continuity brandline for traditional stuff and an out-of-continuity brandline for all the experimental-ruin-the-character-forever stories (like doing Watchmen with the actual Charlton heroes while still integrating traditional versions into main continuity). That way, the creators chafing at the bonds of continuity can do their off-the-board takes for the 30-something set while others could hammer out amazing Bronze-age (or even Silver-or Golden-Age style) stories in-continuity. Whether the market could sustain such a model, I don't know.
If you really want to get me started, let's get on how Congress #@%&ing with copyright law has prevented Superman, Batman, Captain America, and a whole bunch of iconic Golden Age heroes from falling into Public Domain, where a lot of frustrated creators could actually take a run at the characters and the really great ones could shake out instead of us having to deal with whatever the powers-that-be at the corporate Big Two decide upon . . .Last edited by knight errant00; May 26, '16, 10:28 PM.Comment
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Just an observation - how click-baity is this headline: "‘Captain America: Steve Rogers’ shocker turns Marvel hero into...what the?!?" LOL.Comment
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well the next thing is he will be gay too. Enough already. I am so sick of this shock story line BS and the PC crap with ret-conning everything. I agree. Cpt. America is a true hero and should never be presented as anything other. in terms of the gay rumors circulating right now, i have no problem with someones orientation, but come on, this character has been around for over 70 years, never been gay. why does this nonsense have to be brought up? what's wrong with just creating new, interesting characters to fill those spots, ie Bat Woman...great character, gay, so what?Comment
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The comic companies dont have the ability to drive new characters (and the verbal minority that want them, cant support the sales) with ethnic backgrounds, sexual orientation, and that is why they get put on existing characters with name recognition. Whether it is market glut, bad marketing, over-saturation of character families, I dont know, but DC for instance cant keep a Doom Patrol, Demon, Hawkman, Challengers, Metamorpho, Metal Men, Deadman, Captain Atom, Captain Marvel/ Shazam, Omega Men, LOSH book alive for any length of time without cancellation constantly hanging over head. I signed on for a lot of the New 52 and what is left? The Flash is the only thing going that I started with. Didnt mean to derail the thread. But, that is why Cap will get this kind of story because no one is going to pick up Namor' brainwashed by Hydra in WW2 story. Cap has a lot of presence now so we have to expect the controversial crap to dump on him. Any publicity, and all that...Comment
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Well, really knight---reading your posts here---I think we're saying the same thing in more ways than your post appears to me---I'd like it if there were more "Captain America stories like TFA or the classic issues of Invaders or Avengers" too--- but a Watchmen or whatever else take is inevitable in my opinion.... you don't get progression in the comicbook hero genre without stuff like that---it's a "price paid" (so to speak) for the enduring nature comic book heroes have had IMHO the genre wouldn't have survived this far without it.
hedrap, you are one of my favorite posters here in your "superhero insight" real life or fictional---but your stance in this instance hits me as over-the-top as far as outrage and assessment of the real-life fall out.Spencer has no justification for taking a character created by two jewish kids in '30's that was deliberately meant as propaganda against Hitler and saying it was all a ruse. Just read the interview...
His answer is "Tom Breevort wouldn't let me do anything bad"...but started by stating this will have a lasting effect. It can't be both. He can't admit that his hook is the "super-soldier" serum plus a blonde, blue-eyed kid. It's too superficial. He's retconning the idea and at some point, him or Breevort will blame 1940's America as to why Kirby and Simon couldn't use a more jewish character. At that point, they will introduce one because outside of that, I honestly do not know how Ike was talked into going along with this. There's no way he would sign off on a change like this if there wasn't a guaranteed swerve or he wasn't trying to screw with Fiege.
...and Spencer is a con man. Sorry if I'm not supposed to say that about industry people, but he is. I remember reading about this dude years ago. He's a deadbeat nightclubber from Cincy who bankrupted a few businesses and took off. How in ten years he's writing Cap says how smooth of a huckster he is. I feel bad for the legit artists in the industry, cause he's not one to me and never will be. Guaranteed he bolts for Los Angeles once this Cap mess gets really out of control. And Breevort should be canned for this. Not due to cannon but the insult to Kirby and Simon.
The comicbook industry IS a huckster business.
BUSINESS is a huckster business.
And comicbook writers and editors (and whoever else in the industry) come in all shades of sleaze, but the stories they produce... are just stories.
That's my take, anyway.Last edited by huedell; May 27, '16, 1:39 AM."No. No no no no no no. You done got me talkin' politics. I didn't wanna'. Like I said y'all, I'm just happy to be alive. I think I'll scoot over here right by this winda', let this beautiful carriage rock me to sleep, and dream about how lucky I am." - Chris MannixComment
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Actually, Fabian Nicezia introduced a Jewish candidate for the Super Soldier program in his Adventures of Captain America: Sentinel of Liberty prestige mini-series back in 1990. He later went on to be a supporting player in New Warriors.He's retconning the idea and at some point, him or Breevort will blame 1940's America as to why Kirby and Simon couldn't use a more jewish character. At that point, they will introduce one
This seems to REALLY be blowing up in Marvel's face. For all the money-grabbing storylines the big two have done, this is apparently that bridge too far. I completely understand it, but I still say this is retconned in a year, if not sooner (or even ahead of schedule, due to the backlash). Cap has had his backstory monkeyed with before, particularly in a 70s story by Don Glut I believe. Nothing tawdry at all, but Roger Stern and John Byrne saw fit to explain the changes away as lies during their run. That's probably what's going to happen here.
ChrisComment
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