NOT enough KISS talk

[mego]

I'm a fan because my older brother gave me his records when I was 5 (30++ years ago). They introduced me to rock and roll... Lets face it, KISS appeals to the inner 5 year old in us (fans anyway). My interest in the band is really for the classic lineup.
Who else was combining bombastic music, monster movies and comic books? Nobody.
Still, I do understand why 4 people don't continue working together after 10, 20 or 40 years on.
As a band/brand, they're making much much more money and playing to larger audiences than any time in their career. The numbers don't lie. Good for them. I'm not interested, but good for them.
I'm happy to see figures being made... having an 8" set of the original figures is a dream come true. After grabbing a couple of the 2nd series, I've been holding out for the Destroyer and Dynasty figures, like most people.
Choosing to release Sonic Boom, Monster, Dressed to Kill and Alive seems like a two year teaser for the two sets that people actually want.
+
What's with all the KISS arguments here? Take it to the KISSfaq

[wise guy]

I was a Kiss fan in the 8th grade and wen't and seen them on the Rock and Roll over tour. When I reached High School , Kiss was a kiddie band that i was embarrassed to admit that I had liked in middle school (like Disco)
I than discovered Van Halen , Judas Priest , AC DC , Black Sabbath , and Aerosmith etc. and never wen't back !
I like the Kiss figures but other musicians should get remego figures like Angus, Ozzie, or Sammy Hagar instead of every guy that ever toured with Kiss .

[tllgn]

I dont collect Kiss ,i kinda like the four packs though,That blood spitting Gene is creepy ,all that money for a toy that spits fake blood,just one
spit and i would think it would ruin the outfit ,or does it ?.and some Head case out there might use real blood .

[Paladin]

Well, I fall into the 30+ yr fan category. Saw them in 77 and again in 84, and again for the reunion/psycho circus tours. I myself won't buy any KISS merch that features Tommy and Eric in make-up, and I am not alone. I'm waiting for the Creatures tour set with the Fox and the Wiz. But I don't have the figures for the new guys, nor will I buy any.

[binkystarr]

I agree with you Paladin however, its rough to make a point on here without having some folks on here start with attacks or name calling. I myself am a huge KISS fan but don't collect nor care for the 2001-current lineup in makeup, there are tons of us who love KISS but enjoy other periods instead. Everyone enjoys their own version of KISS

[Paladin]

You are correct Binky, don't get me wrong. There are plenty of nice folks here that I have read have a differing point of view in a civil manner. But I have also seen the other sort as well. Also, don't misunderstand me, the new guys are very talented, Singer in particular. But I take the make-up as offensive. When Criss left in 1980, Eric Carr came up with the Fox, Vinnie Vincent became the Wiz. If the band wanted to go bak to the make up and recapture the magic of the past, Tommy and Eric should do the same and make their own.

Mods, I'm aware that this could be misconstrued as off-topic. However I am pointing out why I will not buy a particular set of figures based on the real world behaviors of the people they depict. I thank you.

[MIB41]

Personally I have been a fan since 1977, so I'm part of that original generation that got the masked personalities as the band members (and nothing else). I'm of the opinion if the band had never been marketed that way and operated very much like they do today where they are seen in out of their wardrobe, people would be less married to the costumes and makeup. I was swept up in that too. In 1983 when they took off their makeup on MTV, I was in mourning that night because, for me, those characters "died". But I also got that same removed feeling again when the original musicians reunited. It no longer felt the same and so much of that had to do with the fact you now saw them in and out of the makeup. Everyone now knew the man pulling the strings behind the Wizard of OZ. You suddenly knew who Santa was. The mystique was over. So it took me allot of time and evolution of ideas to finally reach where I am today. Ultimately it's makeup and costumes. Those characters (and the marketing that went with them) left this world in 1983. Once that marketing genie was out of the bottle, you couldn't put it back in. I feel bad for those who came a generation after those magical years because those were special times. But it was also a marketing gimmick, so I can't let my childhood fondness for make believe characters blind me to the reality of what was really going on. Ace Frehley is Ace Frehley. Peter Criss is Peter Criss. They might have come up with the essence of the makeup ideas, but it's well documented professional talent was brought in to clean up those designs and the costumes were made by real designers. Those of my generation grew up with allot of myths - KISS Alive was not really "live"; The solo records never really sold a million copies a piece; The media told the public they couldn't get a shot of KISS out of makeup when they really could. Plus Bob Kulick played for Ace on many records including Destroyer. Sean Delaney told Gene to stick his now iconic tongue out and choreographed the show they still use to this day. We could go on and on. KISS was an idea created by ALLOT of people in the entertainment business back then. We were told it was just the four guys.

So most of the hype we were sold as children of the 70's was pure bologna. That was why they were hated by other bands so much. But you know, that doesn't really discredit them in my eyes so much as prop them up for being surrounded by ingenious marketing people who had a unique idea for commercialism. No one has ever done it quite as well as KISS. It was fun to follow them then and I feel that same consideration today. I just can't let myself get angry over "who is wearing the makeup" since the original artists were oversold for their contributions as well. KISS is about marketing an image and celebrating the basic ideas of rock n roll in a show. And for those who feel only Ace and Peter can wear it, well... Ace and Peter didn't feel that way. They put a price tag on it and sold it. Paul and Gene believed in it more than they did, so I congratulate them for seeing the essence of KISS and moving forward. That's why they remain the voice of the band and why they continue to do well to this day. If that wasn't the universal truth of it all, their licensing wealth would be considerably less. The fact that some things sell better than others is really moot. The people who own that license are sitting pretty. And the best part? KISS can go on being KISS; Ace can be Ace; and Peter can still be Peter. Everyone in that band hedged their bets, made their beds, and as a result are sleeping in those beds today. Some better than others.

[binkystarr]

MIB41,
You have interesting points however, I do NOT agree with all your statements. Im 42yrs old and have been a KISS fan since 1977 and that was a LONG time ago. I don't believe that what happened in the 70s was all bologna. I think it was hype and excitement because we had never seen anything like KISS except Alice Cooper or the Crazy World of Arthur Brown. KISS in the 70s added a wonderful flavor of fantasy that was fun. I still recall certain parents complaining about KISS, the alleged hidden meaning of their name and whatever nonsense they could try to invent about the band. Since Ace's original departure, KISS has been controlled by Gene and Paul and that has been a very well documented fact. This crazy control unfortunately has allowed Gene and Paul to make horrible decisions like put Ace and Peter's faces on other folks and sell them as such. Its ironic that Gene and Paul claim to be happy as heck (insert any expletive) but can't seem to get through an interview or book where they don't trash and blame previous band members for all the band's misfortunes? This includes Paul Stanley bashing the late Eric Carr!!!! Such commentary just shows how unhappy and miserable Gene and Paul REALLY are as people and that no amount of money will ever heal that wound. Its funny that Paul couldn't respond to Dee Snider's comment regarding Tommy and Eric Singer in makeup. Dee's comment reflects what countless KISS Army members have been asking for the last 15 years. If you read the KISS book by CK Lendt,"Kiss and Sell: The Making of a Supergroup" you can clearly see the exact same mistakes being done now by Gene and Paul. , CK Lendt tells how the Kiss members and manager foolishly spent money that could have been better invested.
In fact, the reunion tours of 96 and thereafter really gave the members the financial stability that they'd lost in the late 70's.
The irony of Kiss is that without Ace and Peter they were nothing but a sinking nostalagia act. With the reunion tour and make-up back on and Ace and Peter in the band the group suddenly became interesting.
In the end, the great success of Kiss is not the bluster of Gene Simmons or posturings of Paul Stanley but the dynamic of all four members--Ace, Peter, Gene and Paul. Its no shocker that most of all of Gene Simmons' pet projects have failed no matter what he claims from magazines,album labels,clothing lines,movie projects that never happen to over merchandising of the band. I just wonder if Gene also blames previous band members for his failed pet projects he so much loves to boast about? Who knows. Well, at least we know that Ace was dead set against The Elder,Phantom of the Park,Unmasked and Dynasty fearing that the band had lost its grasp on reality. I leave with this amazing video that contradicts Gene and Paul's idea about the makeup on Tommy and Singer...enjoy! Long live KISS, whatever incarnation you enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzolkuwF-oc

[MIB41]

Hey Binkystarr. I certainly respect your opinion so it's all good here. But allot of what you refer to is public posturing and statements made from books and interviews to either support the current project they were in or demean the personalities they were/are currently out of favor with. That's marketing 101 my friend. Support the current project while devaluing critics of previous editions. How many times have they said their current lineup is the best? EVERY time it has changed. How many times have they said their latest album is as good as Destroyer? Most every album since. And how many times have they fallen in and out of love with Ace and Peter? More times than can be counted. How any times did they put down their makeup image in the 80's and swore they would never do that again? Funny how that worked out. And what about the infamous "farewell tour"? Nuff said. This is not a truth poll or integrity contest for me. Every single member of the band has taken their turn at deceiving the public or catering to an image from unsupported "facts" to prop themselves up. Yes, Paul has a chip that is bigger than the national debt. Gene would sell his mother's image if he thought he could profit from it. And Ace will forever claim he still owns the rights to the makeup while his net-worth continues to fall. And then we have Peter and his single Beth to hold onto as proof he is the most talented member...by his estimation. They've all taken turns being delusional and disingenuous. None of them have done the job of wearing makeup and costumes because they were "descent" people. And they consistently contradict themselves all over the place. It all works because they have a segment of the "KISS Army" that will support it. It's just more fodder for the fan base to keep their name in the conversation.

When Eddie Trunk talks about his feud with KISS or anyone else fighting them, it's because he knows there is an instant uptick in listeners when he does it. The fan base gets played ALLOT by people who claim to be "balanced and objective" outsiders. In truth they're just making a buck like KISS by picking and prodding at the fans. I've read the individual books and they all read as believable as what they say on any given day to the media. In a nutshell, "I'm a victim of my own immense talent. The other band members screwed me." The fans take it from there. The ONLY book I have read that seems to have at least some objectivity is by Lendt and that was a perspective I enjoyed because it wasn't about branding the KISS image so much as just giving you the raw depictions of the music business and how so much of it is for show. I think once you read that book, it's really unnecessary to read anything else, because you understand the mechanics of what they do every time they open their mouth. When ANY member of that band (current or former) stand in front of a mic or camera, they are selling product. They, as people, ARE product. So I don't get caught up in the latest and greatest pop psychology lesson from Paul or the bravado that motivates Gene to keep breathing. It's all said to sell a narrative to push their brand. But I no longer personalize that stuff. When you've listen to it for nearly 40 years, you begin to understand it's all fluff.

So I guess, for me, they are doing EXACTLY the same thing today that they've been doing for 40 years. And that's selling you a message to come to their shows and buy their merchandise. How fans justify that is as individual as the clothes they wear. If people want to believe four guys designed all that 40 years ago when it's well documented they didn't even come close, then they best drink the same Kool-aid that says Paul and Gene designed their current business model that is running everything today. I believe neither. They have been the benefactor of good business managers. Aucoin/Delaney in the 70's and Doc McGhee today. I carry no illusions that they are doing anything but riding a gravy train designed by others. But that is the truth about most things in this business, so it doesn't bother me. When I see four guys in makeup and costumes putting on a fun show, I understand why I am there. I think some fans want it to somehow mean "more", but honesty it doesn't. In my eyes these guys are having fun and getting rich selling an image. I enjoy it for what it is and save the infighting for the "Army". KISS doesn't care which side you take as long as you open your wallet. I think they've made that crystal clear through the years.