CAPTAIN AMERICA: CIVIL WAR: Reviews and discussion of the movie WITH spoilers...

[emeraldknight47]

Since CA:CW is already opening in some parts of the world, and apparently both the mid-credits and final credits scenes have "leaked" online, I figured I would go ahead and create new threads for reviews and discussion of what could be MARVEL Studios best film yet. Use this thread if you want to post reviews/info that CONTAINS SPOILERS.

[rche]

spoiler alert............................................. .........







I first want to say that I really enjoyed this movie. It got a little slow in some parts, but was highly entertaining and the characters were all well played and written.

The one thing I was fearful for was that Spidey was going to be reliant on Stark tech, and I was kind of disappointed that things did go that way. It is a bit of a pet peeve of mine that Stark industries has so much to do with all the heroes in the movie Marvelverse, and I was hoping they would not go that way with the new Spider reboot. Peter is a brilliant scientist on his own and I think he could have made his own suit. Maybe Stark could have helped with refining the goggles or something, but it just seems off to me that he is responsible for the underoos. I was pleased to see that Tony was impressed by Peter's webbing and shooters. I also hope that Spidey finds a more confident voice in his stand alone film. His character was fantastic as the teenager who is smitten with all the heroes around him, but I think Spidey should be a little more cocky. The chatter is how he keeps his foes off balance.

Super fun movie and the grand fight scene with all parties is going to be a tough act to follow for any future franchise films.

[MegoSteve]

The chatter is how he keeps his foes off balance.

To me, it seems like nervous chatter, like he's doing it to reassure himself. That's just my take.

The big fight scene at the end was impressive, but the one I absolutely loved was the chase scene with Cap and Bucky running from the police and Black Panther. The stuff where they were running through tunnel traffic faster than the cars and when Buck ran OVER a car made me drop my jaw, and then when he grabbed the guy on the motorcycle and took it from him... man... I think it's one of the best chases ever filmed.

[Earth 2 Chris]

What a movie! Just got home. Already planning on seeing again tomorrow night.

As soon as Tony said "they never made it to the airport", I KNEW who was in that car. WOW. What a bait and switch at the end. It looked like we were back to Marvel Team-Up with Cap, Bucky and Iron Man working together, ready to fight the other Winter Soldiers. Then a complete left turn. But a very satisfying one.

I gotta give Downey credit for being willing to go where he did with Tony. Throughout all the Marvel films, Tony has been way too inside his own head. He has to fix everything. His ego demands it. His "fixes" have resulted in some serious, serious problems. Black Widow points it out to him, and he still doesn't learn that lesson. Another hero may have attacked Bucky first after the revelation, but he just kept coming. Powerful stuff.

Evans was as always, fantastic. Born to the role.

Loved it.

Chris

[jimbutsu]

Loved the flick, really enjoyed Giant-Man and Spider Man

The part that stuck with me was when Cap and IM were fighting towards the end and Cap pulls Tony's mask off and winds up for a shot with the shield - Tony covers his face and Cap hits the arc reactor -- he was never going to go for a killing blow and that subtle little moment showed just how completely Stark had been misjudging who Cap's character is.

[Earth 2 Chris]

The part that stuck with me was when Cap and IM were fighting towards the end and Cap pulls Tony's mask off and winds up for a shot with the shield - Tony covers his face and Cap hits the arc reactor -- he was never going to go for a killing blow and that subtle little moment showed just how completely Stark had been misjudging who Cap's character is.

Yes, yes and yes. And Cap lifting his shield above his head, with Stark's head exposed, did make me think of Cap destroying Baron Blood in the classic Stern/Byrne run. Of course Cap wasn't going to lop Tony's head off, but still the imagery was there.

Chris

[samurainoir]

thoughts:

Even with the entire Avengers and more on board, this is definitely Captain America 3 with Cap purely at the centre of the film, both emotionally on a character level an plot-wise.

Saw the parent twist coming a mile away unfortunately, since both flashbacks took place in 1991, BUT that just added to the tension of WHEN will Tony find out.

We don't actually see it, but I kind of interpreted the Spider-suit as Peter having access to Stark's equipment/lab/manufacturing. I'm sure they all elaborate in Spider-Man Homecoming. I LOVE a younger, hotter Aunt May. Creates a much more contemporary and realistic dynamic that we have not yet seen after five Spider-man movies. An Aunt May that is not doddering, and actually paying attention and trying to be a parent and will call out Peter (As he lives in fear of). I'm certain at this point a big source of conflict will be that she does find out, and we get that great moment from the Ultimate Spider-man comics where she rips into him (as a younger, more vital Aunt May... who actually holds down a job as well).

The ending kind of has that Empire Strikes Back feel to it (and they even name dropped it via Spider-Man). They "defeated" the villain, but Zemo actually "won". He splintered the Avengers from within, with wonderful motivations as Black Panther needed to drive home at the end in case we missed it (fairly well done under the circumstances).

So, the Avengers are pretty much finished when Thanos comes knocking at their door (as Tony has feared and predicted as the "Futurist"). Great set-up, hope they pay it off in Infinity War.

GIANT MAN!!!!!!!! This might be a challenge for them to deal with in Ant-Man and The Wasp. If he can do this, then he kind of becomes a powerhouse hero. Wonder how big a factor this will be?

Everett K Ross. Martin Freeman doesn't have as much to do, but what a great set-up hopefully for him becoming Black Panther's sidekick in the solo BP film. Freeman is perfect casting for that character and I hope they really go that route. Wanted more Freeman/Panther time just to feel out the chemistry, but they have an entire solo film to do that coming up.

I do love that despite a HUGE cast, they are able to service almost every single character with their own little moments. Vision and Scarlet Wtich in particular. I don't doubt this is set-up for a more prominent romance in Infinity War, with the Gem being such a big factor in that film.

It's really clear that Black Widow has become the heart of these films, and I'm absolutely delighted that she is FINALLY going to get her own solo film at last if Kevin Feige is to be believed. Albiet not until 2020 at the soonest.

[samurainoir]

Also really dug the chemistry between Peter and Tony. It also feels like a set up for some push-back against yet another Father Figure in Spider-Man Homecoming. Particularly, since as we all know, Peter is actually aligned more with Cap's concept of freedom and doesn't function well in a structured environment given the relative chaos of his life (typical of genius, and as we see, even Tony functions this way).

Peter took Tony at his word, and I think once he understands the situation fully, he's going to rebel.

[MegoSteve]

I LOVE a younger, hotter Aunt May.

I liked it, too. It reminded me of The In-Betweeners.

[huedell]

Peter took Tony at his word, and I think once he understands the situation fully, he's going to rebel.

Well, he IS a typical whiny teenager---so, I wouldn't be surprised if he decides he wants to fight against "what's holding him down".

Someone correct me here, but I'm starting to get the idea that many believe that even Tony is going to change his mind here----I don't really see that happening---at least, not VERY begrudgingly.

And, really, shouldn't the heroes be accountable and arrestable----just for story telling sake. That way, the government isn't constantly at odds with them---and, if they DO get arrested---it's pretty sure they can get "sprung" pretty easily.

The part that stuck with me was when Cap and IM were fighting towards the end and Cap pulls Tony's mask off and winds up for a shot with the shield - Tony covers his face and Cap hits the arc reactor -- he was never going to go for a killing blow and that subtle little moment showed just how completely Stark had been misjudging who Cap's character is.

I disagree. I think it's unreasonable to assume Stark thought Cap would kill him.

I gotta give Downey credit for being willing to go where he did with Tony. Throughout all the Marvel films, Tony has been way too inside his own head. He has to fix everything. His ego demands it. His "fixes" have resulted in some serious, serious problems. Black Widow points it out to him, and he still doesn't learn that lesson.

That's not my take. My take is that if anyone needs a "bigger lesson:" It's Cap.

Tony is simply deciding to "play within the system"... rather than being an outlaw.... When Tony challenges Cap (et al) he's simply putting Cap "on hold" ala General Ross. Playing both sides. Cap is too passionate. Stark is the smarter of the two.

[The Bat]

Peter is actually aligned more with Cap's concept of freedom and doesn't function well in a structured environment given the relative chaos of his life (typical of genius, and as we see, even Tony functions this way).

Peter took Tony at his word, and I think once he understands the situation fully, he's going to rebel.

Totally agree with this. The whole reason Spiderman wears a costume is to protect his loved ones. Even though he did it in the comics version of CW...I don't think Spiderman wants the Government(or anybody)knowing his secret identity. Once Tony tries to force him to register...he'll switch to Team Cap.

[clemso]

I love the tie in line to the First Avenger "I can do this all day long" signifying that Stark has now become the bully. Really nice touch.
Also, i kind of wish that Thaddeus Ross was still a General and not retired. I just felt something was lost in the translation of his character.

[Earth 2 Chris]

When Spider-Man describes that he does what he does because if he does nothing, he's just as bad as the bad guy...that's Cap's mission statement, slapped right in Tony's face while trying to recruit Peter. You can see it in Downey's reaction...he knows it right away.

This movie is so well written and acted. So many subtle things like that to chew on for a long, long time.

Chris

[Hedji]

This film was just tremendous!!!!! What more could a superhero fan want. It was like Marvel sent us a "thank you" for the past 8 years of supporting their films. The payoff and callbacks to previous lines and characters was brilliant. The actors and characters are evolving beautifully.

And Ant-Man.... Ant-Man!!!! Who knew the little guy would steal the show with such spectacle? He's like the little engine that could. The afterthought movie that was just a footnote to Age of Ultron, and yet his scenes had me squealing with glee. I was a child again. As Quicksilver said,"I did not see that coming". Even though I knew of Giant Man from the comics, it still surprised me.

I was so scared they'd kill off either Cap or Stark. I'd stayed spoiler free but heard the comic ended with Cap's death. Thank goodness they didn't, because I think the fracturing of the Avengers is a much more satisfying consequence.

I would love to see some action take place in the lush environment of Wakanda. It would be a spectacular change of scenery from the urban battles of most of the films.

Question: can Scarlet Witch get into Bucky's head and remove the hydra programming?

It is just stunning how the underlying theme of heroes vs heroes and Superbeing accountability is identical to that steaming pile Batman v Superman, and yet this is executed with such joy and "earned" emotional impact. This is a film, made not to stroke a director's ego, but for any audience to enjoy.

A+. Make Mine Marvel. Nuff said. Excelsior!

[huedell]

Totally agree with this. The whole reason Spiderman wears a costume is to protect his loved ones. Even though he did it in the comics version of CW...I don't think Spiderman wants the Government(or anybody)knowing his secret identity. Once Tony tries to force him to register...he'll switch to Team Cap.

Hmmm... I know it seems crazy---but I didn't think of the "secret identity" aspect----I'm not a comic reader---but I know a lot of "what's what" and it's hard to get any other idea than what you're saying here.

That said: Team Iron Man's attitude makes much more sense to me.

It's cool to fight for the little guy (vs. being overriden by govt.orders), but little guys are gonna get killed either way---and, well, IMHO there's gotta be a "price" paid for being a superhuman with that much power jumping around the world fighting for whatever "good" is defined as at any given moment.