WOW!! I remember when these were $450 MIB

[highquality]

Yikes Mike. That sucks.

1974 MEGO Jean Lafitte SUPER PIRATE all original, MIB - eBay (item 130205457968 end time Mar-21-08 18:48:14 PDT) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=130205457968&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=003)

If these had never been reproduced, would interest still be so low?

Curious.

Well, at least your AEs are getting decent dollar.

[megozilla13]

don't remind me, thats exactly how much I paid for it.
How many repro Lafittes can I buy for $94.

mikej

[WRM]

don't remind me, thats exactly how much I paid for it.
How many repro Lafittes can I buy for $94.

mikej

Ah yes, lets keep those reproductions coming boy & girls...no matter what it does to the originals, right? :wink:

[The Bat]

Ah yes, lets keep those reproductions coming boy & girls...no matter what it does to the originals, right? :wink:


Sounds good to Me!!:yes:

[palitoy]

I actually noticed a sharp decrease in boxed Legends long before CTVT, I'd say around 2001-2002. I picked up every pirate save for Black Beard for under $200, Knights too. Megomania fell hard from the late ninties peak, it wasn't noticeable in the licensed stuff because it gains new fans but stuff like the Legends, Tex Willer etc got pretty darn affordable long before anybody got into Chinese factories.

[toys2cool]

wow that has gone down :grin:

[Megospidey]

It's simple supply and demand to me -

Little supply + great demand = higher prices

Little supply + little demand = low prices (no matter how scarce it is)

[dumbldor]

A boxed Jean Lafitte in that condition would not have sold for under $400 before the reproductions came out. No way. I saw some that sold for $600. This wasn't 2001 or 2002. This was 2004 or 2005. Ask Greg Mason how the prices for Pirates have changed due to CTVT.

[luey]

A boxed Jean Lafitte in that condition would not have sold for under $400 before the reproductions came out. No way. I saw some that sold for $600. This wasn't 2001 or 2002. This was 2004 or 2005. Ask Greg Mason how the prices for Pirates have changed due to CTVT.

Oh yes, know all too well.... Once sold a C10 set for $2800 and last set, not C10 mind you, sold for $600... and I bet the CTVT guy that's now selling the remnants of the boxes and figures, bought 75% of those from me... Everytime I put up a Pirate, Knight, Western or Merrymen, he snatched them up, I guess to get as many as possible for the molds... Wished I would have known, might have cut him off ;)

[dumbldor]

It could have been worse:

Mego Super Pirates Jean Lafitte Figure MOC MIB 1974 New - eBay (item 250226692105 end time Mar-24-08 07:44:47 PDT) (http://cgi.ebay.com/Mego-Super-Pirates-Jean-Lafitte-Figure-MOC-MIB-1974-New_W0QQitemZ250226692105QQihZ015QQcategoryZ1169QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

[wyldpny]

Here we go again....

[wyldpny]

It's simple supply and demand to me -

Little supply + great demand = higher prices

Little supply + little demand = low prices (no matter how scarce it is)

That is absolutely true.
The one thing those of you who are complaining saying that respos are seriously hurting the market for originals don't seem to want to realize is that the market and the potential buyers are effected on any given day, week, year etc by potential or lack of buyers at that time. Just because at one point one or two people were willing to pay a much higher amount does not mean that every potential buyer at that point after is willing to or will find themselves bidding against someone else who is willing to pay that much at a later time for one. I have seen this exact same thing with many other items, like collector and vintage cars, bikes, books, toys, etc
And it goes both ways also. If I get lucky and win a item for $25, does that mean it will always be worth that? Prices fluctuate and sadly not always on an upward curve.
I have watched on eBay where one week a Star Trek utility belt that is near mint will go for $250, then a few weeks later another identical utility belt that is near mint but the box shows a lot shelf wear and not as nice as the one before go for even more at $275. Then a month later another one in about the same condition as the first in near mint all around sell for only $125
Obviously some of you will now ask yourself, why is that? If it sold one time for $250, why doesn't another identical one get that amount or more again?
Well, it should be pretty obvious why, but by the comments by some on here, it apparently isn't so obvious.

[dumbldor]

Thanks for the rudimentary economics lesson, but a trend is a trend. $400-600 consistently for YEARS and now under $100 consistently is not fluctuation in the market on any given day, week, etc. Please don't insult our intelligence.

[DCSTING]

It could have been worse:

Mego Super Pirates Jean Lafitte Figure MOC MIB 1974 New - eBay (item 250226692105 end time Mar-24-08 07:44:47 PDT) (http://cgi.ebay.com/Mego-Super-Pirates-Jean-Lafitte-Figure-MOC-MIB-1974-New_W0QQitemZ250226692105QQihZ015QQcategoryZ1169QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)


Pretty ironic if u look at the seller of that auction.

[dumbldor]

:rotfl:

Only brought it on themselves.

[WRM]

Pretty ironic if u look at the seller of that auction.

Believe me, they have made their $$ ruining the originals...

[wyldpny]

Thanks for the rudimentary economics lesson, but a trend is a trend. $400-600 consistently for YEARS and now under $100 consistently is not fluctuation in the market on any given day, week, etc. Please don't insult our intelligence.

That is just your opinion based on very little if any actual facts. I am not insulting your intelligence with stating actual facts as to why the market fluctuates. Action figures are not the only collectibles over the years to experience major drops in their value, and most of the other collectibles don't have things like repros to use as an excuse.

[Mikey]

That is just your opinion based on very little if any actual facts

I've learned, over many years, to take Danno's opinion as fact.

Trust me, the guy knows what he's talking about.

[WRM]

That is just your opinion based on very little if any actual facts

I've learned, over many years, to take Danno's opinion as fact.

Trust me, the guy knows what he's talking about.


I second that big time!!!

[txteach]

I totally agree with Dan. Look at the Trek figures on ebay. The only ones that are holding their value are the ones EMCE did not produce......yet.

[wyldpny]

I will take anyones opinion... when they use some actual proof as fact.
For example, how many times over the years did the ones he mentioned actually sell for $400-600 consistently for YEARS. Once? Twice? Fifty times? It would have to have been quite a few times in that exact price range before you could start to call it a trend. If at any time a few of them fell below the lower amount of $400. then that kills the trend of 4-5 hundred doesn't it?
But even if they did stay up there, that still doesn't mean or guarantee that they will consistently sell at that price for the long term, or even consistently for more than a few years.
If you could actually know and guarantee with certainty that any given piece(s) will always hold or even increase their value over time than you are one amazing clairvoyant individual. The stock market is looking for you.
It is a known fact that just because a certain item sold for $500 a few years ago and then this time around a similar one doesn't get even close to that other amount from before, it doesn't always mean that the value dropped or that the value was greatly effected by possible repros or some other similar possibility. It could simply mean that the price was effected merely by the potential, or lack of potential buyers at that given time and date during the time of that particular auction. Auctions and the prices of items at any given time are effected by a few very important variables: Who is looking for a particular item to when they may be listed for sale, who is still needing them and is willing to go into the same price range or possibly higher as ones sold previously, whom is looking at the right time and with the money to get it into the higher price point as the similar ones sold before. For a non buy-it now auction, you also need at least two of these types of bidders to help get into the higher price range. If any of these don't happen during the time of the listing, well now you have one real possible reason as to why the item(s) didn't get up to a price that you feel they should have reached.
I will stand by my previous comment. I do not believe for one second that those collectors that are out there like myself who have always wanted an original will suddenly settle for a repro and be done with it.
I wouldn't and other collectors I know very well would not either.

[WRM]

[QUOTE]I do not believe for one second that those collectors that are out there like myself who have always wanted an original will suddenly settle for a repro and be done with it.
[QUOTE]


you are right, but now that you know repros are coming, wouldn't ya wait a bit before buying originals???

BTW I have sold many of a certain figure that has never gone below 400.00 loose mint but now is 250.00....guess it's just that figure's time of the month, eh

[wyldpny]

I totally agree with Dan. Look at the Trek figures on ebay. The only ones that are holding their value are the ones EMCE did not produce......yet.

Really? Can you show some recently ended auctions that show that?

I watched this loose original Mego Romulan just end not long ago at $250
Item number: 160220978475
Not bad considering that ALL Star Trek toys and related items have dropped in value over the last few years.

The fact is that ALL Star Trek items have gone down and dropped in actual selling values. I have spent over the last two and half years researching Star Trek collectibles and memorabilia for my new book that will be published this fall. After doing a lot of research and talking to others who buy and sell, including Intergalactic and Starbase Atlanta and we all agreed that the main reason for the majority of the dropping in values across the board on all Star Trek related memorabilia including Mego action figures is because of the fact that there hasn't been any current Star Trek on TV or in the movies for quite a few years now. The last Trek we had was Enterprise on TV back in 2005 and it was certainly not a ratings or fan hit, at least to the level to generate a lot of want for collectibles including vintage. Right now I believe you are also seeing that the majority of current collectors who might buy the vintage items like the Mego carded figures have already picked up the ones they wanted. What is left for potential buyers are those lesser financially able collectors who were willing to wait for the market to hopefully drop where they could then pick up the ones they have always wanted but in a price range more in an area they can afford. With less and less of the bigger money spenders bidding as they are now set with those items, you are now seeing the lesser financial buyers competing against each other, which explains why more and more of the ones that pop up now are going for lesser amounts.

[WRM]

you saw them end not long at 250.00 ago because of the reproductions!!!

you need to read this thread to get a better idea

Breath Taking! - Mego Talk (http://megomuseum.com/community/showthread.php?t=9561)

[wyldpny]

you are right, but now that you know repros are coming, wouldn't ya wait a bit before buying originals???


Why would I? I mean honestly, how does a repro take the place of an original in a collection? It doesn't. I would add a repro only to add that piece to my collection, not replace a piece. Never happen.



BTW I have sold many of a certain figure that has never gone below 400.00 loose mint but now is 250.00....guess it's just that figure's time of the month, eh

If you feel it's value was more than $250 or felt it should have sold for $400, then you should have either had a BIN on it for $400. or had a reserve. I have done that many times putting at least a reserve on it if I truly wanted what I felt it was currently worth. Sometimes it may take a few re-listings to time it to when the right buyer is looking and can afford it, but they are out there trust me, just possibly not in the numbers we have been used to. It's a cycle of when new buyers may come along and be willing to bid an item up to a certain value. Once the current number of bidders have picked up the ones they want, the cycle drops until the next batch come along. That could happen in a few days, a few weeks or a few years. There isn't a never ending number of high bidders bidding all the time. Once they get the figure they want, they then move on. At some point the number of possible bidders does drop as they buy and obtain the ones they want. The cycle drops until at some point down the road another group of high bidders comes along, maybe they got a better job and can now afford to bid one up higher against another bidder who is also now financially able to. That is just one very real reason as to why high bidding would pick up again at some pint, but there are many numerous scenarios as to why of course.

[Meule]

Why would I? I mean honestly, how does a repro take the place of an original in a collection? It doesn't. I would add a repro only to add that piece to my collection, not replace a piece. Never happen.



If you feel it's value was more than $250 or felt it should have sold for $400, then you should have either had a BIN on it for $400. or had a reserve. I have done that many times putting at least a reserve on it if I truly wanted what I felt it was currently worth. Sometimes it may take a few re-listings to time it to when the right buyer is looking and can afford it, but they are out there trust me, just possibly not in the numbers we have been used to. It's a cycle of when new buyers may come along and be willing to bid an item up to a certain value. Once the current number of bidders have picked up the ones they want, the cycle drops until the next batch come along. That could happen in a few days, a few weeks or a few years. There isn't a never ending number of high bidders bidding all the time. Once they get the figure they want, they then move on. At some point the number of possible bidders does drop as they buy and obtain the ones they want. The cycle drops until at some point down the road another group of high bidders comes along, maybe they got a better job and can now afford to bid one up higher against another bidder who is also now financially able to. That is just one very real reason as to why high bidding would pick up again at some pint, but there are many numerous scenarios as to why of course.

You love to argue, don't you? You are talking to people who have been buying and selling for years and years (not me), people that know the market, that know the value of each and every loose, boxed or carded Mego out there, people I consider experts. Hell, you don't have to be an expert to see repros are in fact having a huge influence on the selling price of originals. Don't try to have the last word every time, just trust these guys, they know what they're talking about better than you do

[MegoSteve]

Most of the value of these old toys is in the perception that they have value. The market for expensive Megos is very small, and all it takes for the value of Mego to plunge is for a few dozen guys to lose interest. If the Super 8 burned down during Mego Meet, I'd bet the Mego market would be pretty much finished. :)

I will agree that a certain percentage of the loss has to do with repros, but to suggest that it's entirely the fault of repros is being willfully blind to general economic trends. The economy's in the tank, so people just aren't throwing around money on toys when they have to pay for things like gasoline for their cars and heat for their houses which, by the way, are also losing their value.

Sad case in point: One of the bonds in my portfolio collapsed late last week in the wake of the whole Bear Stearns mess. It declined over 40% in value based on rumors of bankruptcy and I lost about 5% of the value of my meager life savings in one stinking trade when I got out. Bonds are supposed to be a safe investment! Pretty much EVERYTHING in my portfolio has been that way for the last year or two, not to the extreme of a 40% loss, but I'm seeing plenty of 10% and 20% losses. I now understand why people during the Depression developed a mistrust of banks and started to keep their money in their mattresses, because I probably would have been better off "investing" in hookers and blow than putting it in the stock market. A lot of it has to do with the crappy choices of my financial manager, but it's also because the economy's in the tank and really has been pretty bad for a while.

Frankly, I think a lot of the value of Megos has been from confidence a buyer can at least get their money out of a piece or maybe make some money reselling, and once the confidence in the market collapsed, that took a large chunk of the demand away for those figures from both the collectors, flippers and dealers.

I feel bad for the guys who are selling now, but now's a crappy time to sell. Just bear this in mind: the reason you are selling is the same reason many people just aren't buying like they used to.

[megoat]

Most of the value of these old toys is in the perception that they have value. The market for expensive Megos is very small, and all it takes for the value of Mego to plunge is for a few dozen guys to lose interest. If the Super 8 burned down during Mego Meet, I'd bet the Mego market would be pretty much finished. :)

I will agree that a certain percentage of the loss has to do with repros, but to suggest that it's entirely the fault of repros is being willfully blind to general economic trends. The economy's in the tank, so people just aren't throwing around money on toys when they have to pay for things like gasoline for their cars and heat for their houses which, by the way, are also losing their value.



This is what I've been trying to say all along. I think the answer is more complicated than just repros being the culprit. Of course repros have an effect on the market. But there are many other factors involved as well, and the dudes that cry "REPRO!" at every corner have a hard time understanding this........

[batmanmc]

i think like anything else as collectors get older and die off the marketd rops off. when our generation dies off i belive megos will be really cheap but thats just opinion so who really knows. i do trust and value the opinions of many people on tehse boards. the reproductions of mego expensive figures seems to make the originals go down in value , look at space 1999 , the robin hood , tex willers and so fourth so that apears to be a trend , now look at the trek figures the same thing is happening . im not an expert just my opinion. mike

[WRM]

[QUOTE=wyldpny;115999]



If you feel it's value was more than $250 or felt it should have sold for $400, then you should have either had a BIN on it for $400. or had a reserve. IQUOTE]


Ah, if you read the thread I posted. you'll see that I have sold items for that much...now the price is vastly lower!!!

hello Mcfly.....hello

[wyldpny]

You love to argue, don't you? You are talking to people who have been buying and selling for years and years (not me), people that know the market, that know the value of each and every loose, boxed or carded Mego out there, people I consider experts. Hell, you don't have to be an expert to see repros are in fact having a huge influence on the selling price of originals. Don't try to have the last word every time, just trust these guys, they know what they're talking about better than you do

I am not the one arguing. I have been buying and collecting since the late 60's plus I have talked to others who have been also buying and/or selling just as long. I am pretty sure I know what the hell I am talking about.
I have never denied that repros can effect the price of originals, but there are many many factors that can cause and effect fluctuations in values and repros are a very small part of the many other factors. And I belive that repros have a very minor role, while other factors like the economy, lesser potential buyers, etc play a much more prominent role in the fluctuation of values.

[wyldpny]

[QUOTE=wyldpny;115999]



If you feel it's value was more than $250 or felt it should have sold for $400, then you should have either had a BIN on it for $400. or had a reserve. IQUOTE]


Ah, if you read the thread I posted. you'll see that I have sold items for that much...now the price is vastly lower!!!

hello Mcfly.....hello

Since you are all knowing I bow down to your factual knowledge :rolleyes:
Try re-reading what myself and others have posted about the instability of items maintaining a certain value.
But I guess you don't want to consider more realistic reasons for values dropping as you seem to think it's easier to just keep saying the same things blaming repros entirely in hopes that it might become true.
The reality is that prices will and have always fluctuated due to many reasons, not just repros.
hello Mcfly.....hello

[hobub]

All these are valid points about the economy and the super 8. But the fact is that repros have had a negative effect on the values of originals. I have seen it with several higher end figures (all of which were cut right after the repros appeared). Even Stan Lee said in an interview that the old comics, for example, "are valuable because they're rare.". How can you argue with him?

I remember before we even had the first MegoMeet, telling Allan at the toy and train museum that these were in the process of being reproduced in quantities and he rolled his eyes and said "oh boy". Being a long time Marx guy, he saw it happen there and said it would have negative effects. We all saw the GIJoe market tank with Hasbro's reissues. And I even saw a guy on Antiques Roadshow bring in a Captain Action figure to have appraised and the appraiser said, These were pulling the "...something something" range but since these were reproduced in the 1990's now it's only worth "this" (and forgive me, I don't follow CA much and cannot remember the figures but I do remember it was several hundreds of dollars less.)

The fact is that when you take a supply and demand item and increase the supply much more than the demand, it has negative effects on the originals. Again as I mentioned allot of it has to do with eliminating a certain element of people interested. And I do know that there are several other variables that can cause this as well. But with me it's all in timing. I have seen the value of the RCB, RMR, Knights, Pirates, Andorians and Romulans sink drastically once the repros start hitting ebay. And I have been following this stuff as a hobby for several years.

[dumbldor]

Hey wyldpny, I really don't care if you believe me and some of the other long time Mego collectors who have followed the Mego market every day for the past 15 years or not. You are clearly smarter than the rest of us. I can see the bridges burning as I type this. The flames are licking the sky.

[wyldpny]

The fact is that when you take a supply and demand item and increase the supply much more than the demand, it has negative effects on the originals.

Since this new added supply you mention is not the same, meaning they are repros and not originals, your statement would imply then that you are assuming there is a large number of buyers who are now willing to settle on a repro, a fake if you will, than continue to pursue and want an actual original.
I'm sorry but I have a hard time believing that serious collectors are willing to "settle" on a repro only.
But, if you truly believe that this is the case, then they will only hurt themselves and their collections value when they discover down the road that parts of their collections are worth much less than it could have been due to their willingness to settle on purchasing fakes and repros over originals. If they want to buy fakes and repros then let them. But if you truly believe that this is a trend then by allowing your pieces to sell for less, aren't you also supporting and allowing this trend to continue?

[hobub]

I'm getting tired of repeating this so I'm copying it from this thread:
Breath Taking! - Page 7 - Mego Talk (http://megomuseum.com/community/showthread.php?t=9561&page=7)



Does anyone really think anyone that would spend even $4000.00 on a set of SI would be affected by a $90 set of repro SI?? That is ludicrous to even consider IMHO.

I do and here's why I disagree. Before the repros, the collectors were all bidding for the same thing. No one ever wants to spend anything on a rare collectible. That's what's ludicrous. The nature of the beast is to always pay as little as you can. Aside from those who collect loose v's carded/boxed, in this market there are two types of collectors; those who embrace repros and those who reject them. Although they make great place holders in any collection, who wouldn't rather have a complete original? But it boils down to this, the repros have taken away the competition that drove up the originals in the first place. Those who would settle for a repro might just have made the plunge to get the originals (but of course likely would not have won them) thus driving the price much higher for those who were willing to pay more, but of course did not want to in the first place (just had the cash/credit and was willing). What it did in essence is to undermine the value of the original. Which was actually dictated by what someone was willing to spend versus final ending price. It removed the competition. The one who really loses is the seller. And it waters down the value of the rare antique collectible. Now this doesn't always happen. But remember, where not talking about 17th century New England mahogany that was reproed in the early 20th century or a 18th century disme that was reproed in the 1990s and isn't even made of precious material. We're talking about 35 year old toys that were rare but now are less rare 35 years later because someone got the bright idea to mass produce them again. In 200 hundred years, if vinyl even lasts that long, who's gonna care if it's a 1975 Mego or a 2005 Mego retro. The fact is that they are no longer rare.

And if you want, read further in the thread about "sport bidding".

[hobub]

Now not to make light of this but here's a repro I can live with; Jaynie (http://youtube.com/watch?v=KpQPUcu4NW0&feature=related) baby (http://youtube.com/watch?v=0CRj_MIT_EM&feature=related). Woah. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=S2eOJQh_ICY&feature=related) Thank you Mariska for giving me the curiosity to look this stuff up.

[wyldpny]

Ok, so lets agree for the moment that the repros took away some of those who would have otherwise helped drive up the price on originals. That is certainly a valid point I will agree. We all know that in a non BIN auction it only takes worst case scenario just two people bidding to get the price to climb? So, the question would be how many more than two bidders would it take or require to get the price of any said original up to the kind of prices/values some of you feel they still should still be at even today? Probably an impossible question to answer I agree.

As I said earlier, if any of you truly believe that repros have effected the market values of certain original pieces that much, then can't you simply adjust the way you offer them on eBay either with a BIN option and/or a reserve to help ensure that the values remain somewhat as you feel they should be at?
If you feel that strongly that a certain item should sell in a certain price range, then why would you set yourself up to possibly allow it to sell for so much less? Without using a BIN or worst case a comfortable reserve to help force the potential bidders to HAVE to bid high enough in order to win said item then you always take the risk of something selling for less. This is true with anything that can be bought and sold in any auction.

[Meule]

Without using a BIN or worst case a comfortable reserve to help force the potential bidders to HAVE to bid high enough in order to win said item then you always take the risk of something selling for less. This is true with anything that can be bought and sold in any auction.

People will bid what they want to bid, not what the seller wants to bid. Too high a BIN or reserve and the item won't sell. You can't force potential bidders to bid high enough, just doesn't work like that.
Besides, a reserve gives me (and I suspect a lot of others) the idea that the price will probably be too high anyway and I usually don't even bother. Reserve prices scare off people. Start with a low opening bid, give people the idea they can actually win the item. And once they've bid, they'll usually go a little higher than they anticipated once they get outbid to be the highest bidder again, the thrill of the hunt and all that

[Hulk]

http://www.tonyskansascity.com/tonyskansascity/dieterlaugh.jpg


"I feel spent, like a man who is forced to wear his genitals around his neck like a pendant."

[Dave Mc]

There was a time, not too long ago, I would have dropped that kind of cash just to get those original pistols.

[huedell]

And...in all of this malarkey...no one has pointed out that if a given figure's
sell price has a severe drop (regardless of WHY), then it shouldn't negate the
satisfaction of owning the item....or enjoying the hobby. Correct?

And with that in mind (sans the potential repro-replacing scamming scares)...why is
there anything negative in any of this?

Screw the "thrill of the hunt". If people actually enjoy paying MORE for coveted items
...items they REALLY want to add to their cherished collection...well, I just don't get that mentality.

[dumbldor]

My God, Hue, we're on the same page here.

My primary objection to repros is just what you say, it causes confusion in the market and makes it easy for scammers to prey on collectors.

And a drop in prices is not necessarily a bad thing. I would love a cheap set of original boxed pirates. I will just have to take a close look at the accessories when they arrive...

[huedell]

My God, Hue, we're on the same page here.

My primary objection to repros is just what you say, it causes confusion in the market and makes it easy for scammers to prey on collectors.

And a drop in prices is not necessarily a bad thing. I would love a cheap set of original boxed pirates. I will just have to take a close look at the accessories when they arrive...

I was HOPING we were on the same page Dan --- but you know "the deal" ---
a little bit of an unfortunate tainted board history---debates gone awry
goes a long way in confusing the perception of the other persons intent.

If its broken down to something THIS simple AND we both agree about it---
with no "hot buttons" --- then that's a VERY good thing to me, personally.

[EMCE Hammer]

If ever there was a moment for an internet hug, it's right here, right now.