Webbed-Hand Aquaman: Search for Atlantis? [Archive]

imp

Feb 21, '08, 11:54 PM

I've always wondered if the only knew example is a proto type that was never mass produced?

Good question. "Prototype" seems to be an oft-misued term, as many people use the word to imply "early edition," without consideration of the production process.

I worked as an Art Director for a Los Angeles-based toy company that manufactured almost exclusively in Hong Kong and Mainland China (much like Mego). We always used the term "prototype" to refer to the preliminary product design for which I was responsible. Such prototypes were hand-made samples or even 2-dimensional drawings/renderings of the concept. That said, many who work in toy manufacturing cite the "prototype" as the first example produced by the manufacturer (BTW, we always called that item an "early production sample").

The reason I mention this, is that it digs deeper into the production process and mystery of the "Webbed-Hand" figure. For those who have personally inspected the "Webbed-Hand" Aquaman figure, there is no disputing the fact that the hands are the result of a complete manufacturing process. That is to say, they are neither rudimentary ('hand-made') mock-ups, nor are they modified from existing hands. The factory must have produced (an unknown quantity) of these hands!

I realize this is somewhat beside the point, but I think it's important to note that the solitary specimen bears the markings of having been mass-produced.

So where are the other 300-1,000 specimens surely manufactured?!

The mystery remains.

Benjamin

imp

Feb 22, '08, 12:00 AM

on the right hand page, above the sub mariner/aquaman highlighted notes: "(Skill) Trampolene [sic] Games"

Aha! Gotcha. Sorry, I was so focused on the "underwater" themes, I didn't make a note of Vinny's other product ideas.

Benjamin

Bionic Joe

Feb 22, '08, 12:46 AM

imp

Feb 22, '08, 1:11 AM

Thanks for answering my question Benjamin, As i haven't been lucky enough to see him upclose But one thing still beats me is since Aquaman was such a poor seller why spend money on retooling his hands?

Now you're REALLY getting to the heart of what bothers ALL Mego collectors!

When it comes to this particular Mego product, mysteries abound. Was this really originally intended to be a WGSH/Aquaman product, suggesting Mego saw potential profit in an otherwise unvendible character that — for 6+ years — resulted in low casepack quantities and weak overall sales?

Was the toy's development prompted by the successful movie "Jaws?" Probably not, since there are several years between the country's "shark" fever (1975/76) and the Mego product (1978).

Were the hands and/or shark figure developed for TV's "Man from Atlantis" or similarly aquatic concept (e.g. the mysterious "Search for Atlantis")? Several people have aggressively asserted this was not the case.

Sadly, I don't know whether the answers are actually out there waiting to be discovered. But it is fascinating nonetheless, and certainly worthy of additional discussion.

Benjamin

SlipperyLilSuckers

Feb 22, '08, 1:16 AM

I read that Aquaman bit in the book with great interest as he is a favourite of mine. It will be very interesting to hear the answer when it is eventually tracked down. I am tempted to customize an Aquaman's hands since I like them so much.

Hulk

Feb 22, '08, 1:18 AM

Neal Kublan confirmed Webby was defnitely machine made, and that the mimimum run they would have even considered would have been 1000 units. One day he will show up again, but until then, Berto still gets my nod for owning the rarest Mego known.

imp

Feb 22, '08, 1:35 AM

Neal Kublan confirmed Webby was defnitely machine made, and that the mimimum run they would have even considered would have been 1000 units.

Good point, Paul!

1,000 'production samples' would be astronomically high for a small outfit like the company I worked for, but a run of 1,000 such units would be relatively small for a company as large as Mego in 1978 (In 1976, Mego was acknowledged as the 6th largest toy company in the entire world!).

For a company as massive as Mego at the time, 'production' samples, 'buyer' samples and 'catalog' samples alone would require hundreds of units, if not thousands.

The point is, there is little doubt Mego produced more than one set of "Webbed Hands." This adds to the mystery surrounding 'Berto's solitary specimen, but still doesn't address the greater mystery of the reasoning behind the playset's development!

This is the kind of thing that makes me lose sleep.

Benjamin

MegoScott

Feb 22, '08, 8:06 AM

I just don't see how it can be anything but Man From Atlantis. The webbed hand (http://wofflings.wofflehouse.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/atlantis.jpg) is too specific. How and why it ended up on an Aquaman is baffliing...

I think this trademark discovery is very interesting. It's Search for Atlantis, but not Man from Atlantis...might they have been considering an end-run around the actual show and making their own genric Atlantis concept that ripped off the idea of webbed hands? Are webbed hands are a visual idea that can't be trademarked or made proprietary? I can't imagine the rights to the mildly popular Patrick Duffy show would have been so expensive they'd have gone the generic route to save money...but perhaps they thought they could expand beyond the show's concept and make a line that had even more fantastic elements...

Anyway, to me this is a clue that lends a lot weight to the idea that the hands were created for an abandoned project. Then maybe someone suggests merging the idea with Aquaman...Or perhaps Search for Atlantis was an abandoned Aquaman playset idea that ended up as GWS...

It's just so baffling that they'd show it in the catalog yet make no mention of it--just show the picture. And that no one from Mego can recall these things...

EMCE Hammer

Feb 22, '08, 8:44 AM

I'm thinking Logan's Run here. Perhaps a run of something Atlantis-related was made, and then the plug got pulled when the show died. For whatever reason, it all went in the kiln except for a few stragglers.

OR

How's about an accident with the tooling for one of the hands, which made them decide to just go with regular hands instead of the webs due to cost and/or time issues?

Brue

Feb 22, '08, 9:01 AM

I like the whole hand written possibilities sheet - should really be considered when choosing submissions for "1978 imagined" project!

imp

Feb 22, '08, 12:01 PM

I just don't see how it can be anything but Man From Atlantis. The webbed hand (http://wofflings.wofflehouse.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/atlantis.jpg) is too specific.

It certainly seems like the most logical explanation.

It's Search for Atlantis, but not Man from Atlantis...might they have been considering an end-run around the actual show and making their own genric Atlantis concept that ripped off the idea of webbed hands?

ABSOLUTELY. Mego avoided paying licensing fees several times. Licensing Farrah, for example, allowed Mego to capitalize on "Charlie's Angels" without paying for the character rights.

Anyway, to me this is a clue that lends a lot weight to the idea that the hands were created for an abandoned project. Then maybe someone suggests merging the idea with Aquaman...Or perhaps Search for Atlantis was an abandoned Aquaman playset idea that ended up as GWS...

I agree! It's not just the unique hands that raise my eyebrows. It's the fact that Mego also created the Shark, which is somewht of a departure from typical WGSH ancillary products.

I'm thinking Logan's Run here. Perhaps a run of something Atlantis-related was made, and then the plug got pulled when the show died. For whatever reason, it all went in the kiln except for a few stragglers.

I don't know about that. Logan's Run was 9" scale, while the "Webbed-Hands" are definitely 8" scale. Were there aquatic characters on the Logan's Run TV show? I don't remember.

Benjamin

MegoScott

Feb 22, '08, 12:05 PM

Well, as always, Ben, good work. You've uncovered some neat stuff via the trademark office. This and the Creature mention (both have webbed hands....hmmmm....) really got me thinking. That's what makes your book more than a massive collection of pretty pictures, if I may say so.

davidb

Feb 22, '08, 12:06 PM

The biggest question I've got about the webbed hands is simple - why would Mego expend the extra cost and effort for a figure that wore gloves? I'd suspect that these bodies may have been a trial run for some sort of Atlantis figures - could Roberto's have been one of only a few that escaped the same incinerator that claimed the Logan's Run figures and were reused?

EMCE Hammer

Feb 22, '08, 12:50 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevemoore
I'm thinking Logan's Run here. Perhaps a run of something Atlantis-related was made, and then the plug got pulled when the show died. For whatever reason, it all went in the kiln except for a few stragglers.

I don't know about that. Logan's Run was 9" scale, while the "Webbed-Hands" are definitely 8" scale. Were there aquatic characters on the Logan's Run TV show? I don't remember.

Benjamin

I mean same scenario; not actually part of the line. Sorry I wasn't real clear on that.

Steve

MegoScott

Feb 22, '08, 1:07 PM

The timing is interesting. Man from Atlantis ran starting in the spring of 77 as TV movies before starting as a series in the fall, which would jive with the trademark date. But it was cancelled pretty quickly. Jaws 2 was coming out in 78...I'd guess their Atlantis plans got scrapped about reworked as the Jaws riff.

The Aquaman pic (http://www.megomuseum.com/wgsh/images/AquamanSharkCatalog.jpg) in the 78 catalog is the only WGSH in the catalog posed in front of a painted background. I wonder if you are seeing a glimpse of the concept art for this Search for Atlantis playset.

dumbldor

Feb 22, '08, 1:52 PM

Rather than a short production run of these hands going in a kiln, maybe the hands (or bodies with these hands) were salvaged and combined with Aquaman suits and heads and dumped cheaply ala the red-carded figures or (speculation) the bagged mystery Astronauts. Maybe they ended up in dollar stores or scooted out the back door of the factory. I would not rule out the possibility of a small find of these web-handed figures in baggies someday.

PCofmisfittoys

Feb 22, '08, 3:33 PM

After reading the blog, would it have not come in the Shark set and they are in MINT/unopened boxed sets ? I mean how many collectors have that set that is still sealed etc. Just hard to believe that there is ONLY ONE in the world that's not prototype form.
Was the figure not gloved in the set ? so if you opened it would be the only way you would know , correct?

jemboy2004

Feb 22, '08, 4:15 PM

I think since in notes from Mego they have man from Atlantis and Aquaman/Submariner in a chain of thought together there that it has something to do with that TV show.

Bionic Joe

Feb 22, '08, 4:37 PM

imp

Feb 22, '08, 6:27 PM

The Aquaman pic in the 78 catalog is the only WGSH in the catalog posed in front of a painted background. I wonder if you are seeing a glimpse of the concept art for this Search for Atlantis playset.

OOOOH! Totally. Hmmmm. That background always kind of bothered me but I could never put my finger on it. Once again, Webbed-hand Aquaman presents another anomaly (this time amongst catalog photos). Good thinking, Scott.

I think since in notes from Mego they have man from Atlantis and Aquaman/Submariner in a chain of thought together there that it has something to do with that TV show.

I put those pages side by side (in my blog) for convenience, but I don't believe they were sequential in Vinny's sketchbook. I simply wanted to illustrate that 'aquatic' themes came up more than once. Your point is still valid, though, because it points to the fact that such themes were recurring in production meetings!

Dan raises a good theory here, When Mego was going under they used what ever they had left over, Like the close out red cards and the Frankinstein carded /Superman carded Aquamans or the Mail order WOZ boxes with Aquaman inside. Something to think about :yes:

I'm not sure if you're suggesting the Webbed-Hand figures were distributed after Mego cancelled the line. It's an interesting question, but I think it's a stretch to believe those unique hands would have been lying around the factory for four years (produced in 1978, Mego cancelled the line in 1982). That said, I agree Dan posed a valid supposition that more of them may have been salvaged earlier (back in 1978) and will reveal themselves on other products. Let's hope so!

Benjamin
NOTE: Edited because my tone seemed unintentionally rude. Sorry if that's how it sounded! My edited comments are in BOLD.

dumbldor

Feb 22, '08, 8:04 PM

It's an interesting question, but I think it's a stretch to believe those unique hands would have been lying around the factory for four years (produced in 1978, Mego cancelled the line in 1982). That said, I agree Dan posed a valid supposition that more of them may have been salvaged earlier (back in 1978) and will reveal themselves on other products. Let's hope so!

Benjamin
NOTE: Edited because my tone seemed unintentionally rude. Sorry if that's how it sounded! My edited comments are in BOLD.

Why not? If Aquamans with paper stickers were sold on red cards in 1982 and mystery astronauts on T1 bodies were dumped in the early 1980s, then a cache of web-hand figures could have trickled onto the market in the early 80s as well.

jemboy2004

Feb 22, '08, 8:11 PM

Imp I'm looking at the second page at the botton which is highlighted and they seem to be written altogether at the same time? I think it's odd as I don't think I've ever seen a comic in which Aquaman is shown with webbed hands? I have not been a long time comic fan of AM so maybe I missed it but don't think it was in his book and why pointy ears too? AM has a few odd things about him. I guess AM got alot attention at mego, he must of had a big fan who had some pull at mego.

captact

Feb 22, '08, 8:29 PM

" So where are the other 300-1,000 specimens surely manufactured?!
The mystery remains".................

They were burned in the incinerators at the Mego Warehouse,..once the proyects were flunked,..just like what they did with the already produced 10" Logan Run figures (set of 4).....

Ray Flores

starsky

Feb 22, '08, 9:16 PM

maybe they are in those kitchen sink cards that no one wants to open?:grin:

imp

Feb 22, '08, 9:18 PM

They were burned in the incinerators at the Mego Warehouse,..once the proyects were flunked,..just like what they did with the already produced 10" Logan Run figures (set of 4).....Ray Flores

Hi Ray. Can you elaborate on this? Also, where did you gather this information? I interviewed several former Mego warehouse staffers (from Bohemia, NY as well as the original warehouse, in Southern California), and no one ever corroborated an actual incinerator in any Mego-operated buildings. In fact, I understand there was a third building in Bohemia, located directly behind the first building, that Mego used primarily for 'dead stock' (such as the woeful "Walton's Farm House") which was eventually sold at closeout to wholesalers. I always thought the whole 'incinerator' concept was simply a metaphor... not to be taken literally. As in: "Ah, we just burned it," meaning "trashed it."

I'm anxious for you to tell me more about your findings! Thanks in advance.

Imp I'm looking at the second page at the botton which is highlighted and they seem to be written altogether at the same time? I think it's odd as I don't think I've ever seen a comic in which Aquaman is shown with webbed hands? I have not been a long time comic fan of AM so maybe I missed it but don't think it was in his book and why pointy ears too? AM has a few odd things about him. I guess AM got alot attention at mego, he must of had a big fan who had some pull at mego.

You could be right! Both pages may well have been written during the same meeting, but I can't make that determination from Brian's interview. Perhaps Brian can shed some light on this for us?

Benjamin

imp

Feb 22, '08, 9:24 PM

maybe they are in those kitchen sink cards that no one wants to open?:grin:

Well, Dan made a similar point, that at the end of the line, the warehouse unearthed boxes of leftover/unused pieces, utilizing them for the Kitchen Sink cards. Dan made a very good analogy on the phone to me, comparing it to the Bruce Wayne-headed Astronaut/Pilot figures that turned up after Mego closed. Bruce Wayne heads hadn't been used 'in production' for some eight years leading up to Mego's bankruptcy, and yet there they are!

I'm cracking up, because as soon as I read your post, I instinctively looked over at my yellow Superman-carded Aquaman, and — for a brief moment — actually considered opening it! :juggleyes_y:

Then I thought better of it, choosing to just applaud your theory instead. Heh.

Benjamin

dumbldor

Feb 22, '08, 9:30 PM

I know of a couple of those kitchen sink Aquamans off the card, and neither had web hands. Doesn't mean that all of them don't, though.

Mark Huckabone told me point blank that he checked all of his boxed AVGWS playsets (I think he had 4 at the time), and none of them had the webbed hands.

imp

Feb 22, '08, 10:10 PM

I know of a couple of those kitchen sink Aquamans off the card, and neither had web hands. Doesn't mean that all of them don't, though.

I've heard that, too, but it's interesting to note that some of these Aquaman figures had Mad Monsters' glow-in-the-dark hands. Perhaps the factory ran out of 'human hands,' and starting digging through the parts room. Perhaps they found a box of glow hands and used those. Perhaps running out of those hands, they found yet another box of hands… with webbed fingers.

Perhaps…

Mark Huckabone told me point blank that he checked all of his boxed AVGWS playsets (I think he had 4 at the time), and none of them had the webbed hands.

Great point. I think Mark has become the barometer on this issue, since he has likely inspected more examples than anyone else.

I love this. They mystery just grows stronger and more interesting. The possibilities seem endless, and the explanations do not seem forthcoming. Frankly, I kind of prefer it that way. It's exciting that there are still questions that no one can answer.

Benjamin

Brue

Feb 22, '08, 10:36 PM

Was there ever talk of Mego adding Creature of the Black lagoon to the monsters line?

MegoScott

Feb 22, '08, 10:52 PM

I've heard that, too, but it's interesting to note that some of these Aquaman figures had Mad Monsters' glow-in-the-dark hands. Perhaps the factory ran out of 'human hands,' and starting digging through the parts room. Perhaps they found a box of glow hands and used those. Perhaps running out of those hands, they found yet another box of hands… with webbed fingers.

Perhaps…

Yeah...perhaps, but, no...I'd buy the random parts bin grab bag theory if those hands showed up on some other figures as well? The fact that we see it in in the catalog is too relevant--we don't know what the intention was, but those hands ended up on him intentionally, not as a factory afterthought. IMO.

Where was Roberto's found? Anyone know?

imp

Feb 22, '08, 11:03 PM

Was there ever talk of Mego adding Creature of the Black lagoon to the monsters line?

There is an indication this might have occurred. I brought this up a long time ago, but I will be posting a new blog about it in the coming days. Perhaps additional discussion on the subject will yield more ideas and cool theories, as this Aquaman thread has.

Yeah...perhaps, but, no...I'd buy the random parts bin grab bag theory if those hands showed up on some other figures as well? The fact that we see it in in the catalog is too relevant--we don't know what the intention was, but those hands ended up on him intentionally, not as a factory afterthought. IMO.

I'm inclined to agree, but you have to admit that Dan's analogy of the Bruce Wayne head showing up so many years later (on the Mysterious Astronaut) lends tremendous weight to such speculation.

Where was Roberto's found? Anyone know?

If I'm not mistaken, it was acquired in a random lot 'Berto won on eBay. Perhaps he will find this thread and confirm or deny.

Benjamin

Meule

Feb 23, '08, 4:33 AM

Rather than a short production run of these hands going in a kiln, maybe the hands (or bodies with these hands) were salvaged and combined with Aquaman suits and heads and dumped cheaply ala the red-carded figures

Looking at the pics the hands look wider than regular hands because of the webbing. Getting the oven mitts on normal hands can already be a pain, imagine putting them on these webbed hands. But even if they did do that, the 30 year stress on the vinyl would surely have made that most of these gloves would be ripped by now, making it easy to identify the hands. I guess what I'm saying is, that if the gloves on these frankenfigures are still intact it probably means there are normal hands in it. And wouldn't webbed hands inside gloves be easy to spot because of the wider hands (in case the gloves were still intact)?

dumbldor

Feb 23, '08, 1:24 PM

I doubt the web hands would fit inside the oven mitt gloves. Roberto?

megozilla13

Feb 23, '08, 11:51 PM

still[/I] questions that no one can answer.

Benjamin

No disrespect meant to Mark's knowledge but I would not dismiss the strong possibility the web handed aquaman was made for, and came with, the sharkset based on him having checked 4 sets and not finding one. I don't think those boxes ever came taped shut but just the fact that he checked them, means the ones he had weren't sealed.

The shark was a toy that was meant to be played with in the water. The whole glove thing doesn't work well in water, as they would fill with water. The new design of a webbed hand makes sense.

mikej

Action Martin

Feb 24, '08, 4:01 PM

I've heard that, too, but it's interesting to note that some of these Aquaman figures had Mad Monsters' glow-in-the-dark hands. Perhaps the factory ran out of 'human hands,' and starting digging through the parts room. Perhaps they found a box of glow hands and used those. Perhaps running out of those hands, they found yet another box of hands… with webbed fingers.

I know that I'm late to the game but I recall a childhood friend of mine, Michael Hanratty (he who owned every freaking toy ever made), owning a Mego with webbed-hands. I can't recall if it was Aquaman or another character. I always assumed it was just extra plastic that wasn't cut away from the fingers. I don't recall him owning the Great White Shark set. But your notion of running out of hands and using webbed fingers for those end run Megos sounds about right.

imp

Feb 24, '08, 5:07 PM

No disrespect meant to Mark's knowledge but I would not dismiss the strong possibility the web handed aquaman was made for, and came with, the sharkset based on him having checked 4 sets and not finding one. I don't think those boxes ever came taped shut but just the fact that he checked them, means the ones he had weren't sealed.

That's a good point, Mike, and I don't think anyone is dismissing any possibilities. The relative 'score' (known playsets WITHOUT the hands: 4. Known playsets WITH the hands: 0), however, is noteworthy.

Here's another element I forgot to mention, which might also support the hands' development specifically for the Great White Shark: the illustrations on the back of the packaging depict Aquaman WITHOUT gloves (see below):

http://www.impstudios.com/images/worldsgreatesttoys/blog/uspto/atlantis/agws_back.jpg

Hardly definitive, but yet another interesting fact to consider.

Benjamin

Flynne

Feb 25, '08, 3:21 PM

That's a good point, Mike, and I don't think anyone is dismissing any possibilities. The relative 'score' (known playsets WITHOUT the hands: 4. Known playsets WITH the hands: 0), however, is noteworthy.

Here's another element I forgot to mention, which might also support the hands' development specifically for the Great White Shark: the illustrations on the back of the packaging depict Aquaman WITHOUT gloves (see below):

http://www.impstudios.com/images/worldsgreatesttoys/blog/uspto/atlantis/agws_back.jpg

Hardly definitive, but yet another interesting fact to consider.

Benjamin
Perhaps not definitive, but it does add to the evidence supporting the idea that this set came with a web handed figure. Mego's catalogs show the Web Handed Aquaman for the Great Shark set. The packaging depicts the same thing. The evidence against comes from decades later where it is entirely possible that tampering could have taken place. This is however not the case with the promotional materials made by Mego unless someone has a time machine. :) Personally I think that a reasonable explanation of why so few web handed figures have been found is that it did come in this set. So few Sharks and sets have survived it seems reasonable to guess the same for the web handed Aquaman, though we may never know for sure.

It's stuff like this that just absolutely fascinates me, and thanks again to Benjamin for giving us more evidence for the discussion

dumbldor

Feb 25, '08, 4:20 PM

I doubt that the sets Mark owns or owned have changed owners much. The one I obtained from Mark and subsequently sold to Rudy Z did not have the webbed hands, and the way the figure was strapped in the package, I really really doubt that it had ever been removed or tampered with. Just my 2 cents.

The burden of proof is on those who want to believe the web-handed figure came with the AVGWS set to prove it by finding an example of one, not the other way around.

Flynne

Feb 25, '08, 4:59 PM

There are some problems with either theory though.

The theory that they came with standard Aquamans is supported by the current existence of packaged examples. However, no complete line of provenance can be established between the factory and today which makes it likely but less than definitive. I agree with Dan and Mike that it is unlikely that there was any tampering with any of the extant pieces, and Dan's knowledge of the piece that has the figure strapped into the package is compelling, but the possibility of tampering remains and should be considered at least.

The theory that they came with web handed Aquamans is supported by the Mego catalogs and the packaging. But there are other examples of figures that show different prototypes in the catalogs and the packaging (The Super Knights come to mind here) making it less than definitive too. But there are also examples where the catalogs and packaging show variants that have eventually showed up at least in small numbers (The Ivanhoe Jousting Horse and the flesh colored Soldier Ape, for example). There is also Neal Kublan's assertion that Berto's piece was factory produced, and that Mego never made an order of less than 1000 units. Also interesting, but falls short of definitive.

Other than that I think it really just comes down to belief on either theory. Perhaps somewhere out there exists a picture of a Toy Fair or a store display that has enough resolution to show a factory shipped example. Maybe it even shipped with both the standard and web handed figures. Who knows? The mystery I think is one reason we are all so interested in it.

noelani72

Feb 25, '08, 5:15 PM

not to tanget, but I am really surprised these have not been cast or sculpted by one of our talented people here...

saucerful

Jul 15, '10, 3:05 AM

Just reading this great thread again tonight . . . I was curious if anyone had a larger scan of the instructions. I'm in the mood to hunt for clues:
http://www.megomuseum.com/wgsh/playsets/images/aquaman_shark.jpg

Tothiro

Jul 15, '10, 8:12 AM

not to tanget, but I am really surprised these have not been cast or sculpted by one of our talented people here...

I actually brought that up at one point... asking if more exhaustive photography existed showing structural reference. The response was a little sensitive if I recall, of the "why would you want to muddy the research/collecting waters with a bootleg example?" school.... so I left it alone.

It was one of those Adam Savage/Maltese Falcon things for me. The mystery is the fun part - If International Larry digs anything up in his research it'd be pretty awesome.

LonnieFisher

Jul 15, '10, 10:11 AM

I'm pretty sure that they were made for Man From Atlantis. They look exactly like his hands when he held them up to some glass in the show. I think it was the pilot episode. And I'm pretty sure Mego would have ground up all the extra plastic parts that didn't get used. When I worked at a plastic item manufacturing company, they would grind up bad parts and re-melt it and it got injected into another mold. When oil prices are high they won't throw away good plastic like that. So the other web hands probably got ground and make into regular hands. These might be "test shot" hands from a new mold that didn't get used in mass production. There is way more going on in a factory than somebody who hasn't worked there to realize. I've made things from bullet tips to medical devices, reflectors and lids for peanut butter jars. I'd say it was an accident with somebody not knowing anything about Aquaman and putting the hands on one of his bodies by mistake. They wouldn't make the hands to be covered by his gloves! They had to be Man From Atlantis. No real other explanation. "Test shot" Man From Atlantis planned figure. And he was probably going to have a shark because there were no real good villains on the show to make toys out of. I bet a lot of regular Mego hands are ground up web hands recast as normal ones. I can't wait until somebody finds a web-toed Aquaman!

bizzaro megomauler

Jul 15, '10, 11:10 AM

Ahh... another thing that lacks mention here regarding "Man From Atlantis" is the Kenner securing of the license..lets re-enact the possible scenario...

"Man From Atlantis" makes the airwaves, and is declared a viable property for the action figure market....
Mego, a company that did not want to run the risk of losing another potential winner wants to get the potential figure to market before interest dwindles, therefore they create the hands for proof of concept, knowing if they secure the lisence, they can get the figures to retail in time for Christmas...
Knowing that the hands could (remember the pitch would be a hard sell) be used for other figures (Aquaman, Sub-Mariner even though we all know neither has webbed hands), the tooling and moldmaking costs could easily be considered as a good calculated risk. should the lisence be secured the only piece left to tool would be the head. (IF that ever shows up in any form, I would consider it case closed)
Kenner secures the rights to MFA, and any mego plans are scrapped. Due to the failure of the series however, Kenner tried to recycle the Cetacean design for a line called Scuba Squad in 1978...could both companies have had the same pre-license agenda, and jumped the gun?

A wild shot in the dark, but not purely within the realm of science fiction either.:juggleyes_y:

captact

Jul 15, '10, 12:11 PM

[QUOTE=imp;98678]Hi Ray. Can you elaborate on this? Also, where did you gather this information? I interviewed several former Mego warehouse staffers (from Bohemia, NY as well as the original warehouse, in Southern California), and no one ever corroborated an actual incinerator in any Mego-operated buildings. In fact, I understand there was a third building in Bohemia, located directly behind the first building, that Mego used primarily for 'dead stock' (such as the woeful "Walton's Farm House") which was eventually sold at closeout to wholesalers. I always thought the whole 'incinerator' concept was simply a metaphor... not to be taken literally. As in: "Ah, we just burned it," meaning "trashed it."

I'm anxious for you to tell me more about your findings! Thanks in advance.

Ray here!
All I know and learned was from my long time (since 1983) friend, and many phone calls with info,... Mark Huckabone...as hes my Guru when it comes to Mego's. Hope this helps Imp.
Ray

hedrap

Jul 15, '10, 7:51 PM

When I saw Baeira's R&D notes, I ended tracing way back. My .02

Jack Weston had the Marvel rights from very early on, holding them from at least 1965 and through the Marvelmania boom. Marvel licensing rights worked in groups - Spidey, FF and Marvel Super-Heroes, which was principally Cap, Thor, Hulk, Iron Man and Namor. Namor was always the weakest seller of the group.

Fast-Forward to Weston grabbing the DC rights and presenting a mixed dozen WGSH lot to Abrams. Odds are the Marvel side was the MSH five, plus Spidey as FF merch was its own group. Since Weston helped generate the Super Friends concept and was a DC licensor, he would know who the show was built around. So the original WGSH presentation line most likely included Aquaman and Namor.

As we see on the Aquaman figure, he has Namor's ears. As we see in the R&D notes from '77, Aquaman and Namor are written with a hyphen, Aquaman/Namor. IMO, R&D were working on both as part of the initial release. When you consider the original waves-

Superman
Batman
Robin
Aquaman
Captain America
Spider-Man
Shazam
Tarzan

It's the male Super Friends, Cap & Spidey with Shazam and Tarzan sticking out. When you look at who comes after, you see each wave gets more detailed; female figures, fat bodies, multiple accessories. IMO, Shazam replaced Wonder Woman, (and possibly replaced Flash in R&D) and Tarzan replaced Namor.

Think of how simple and cheap Namor would be; T1, Robin shorts, Namor head...Tarzan flesh suit. Tarzan was secured in May of '72, six months before the first WGSH trademark and Christmas release. Much later than the rest. Like Aquaman's ears, I think the suit was developed for Namor and then put aside when the character was dropped from the wave. Why was he dropped? Because Weston would have the numbers to show he didn't sell and Weston/Mego knew Aquaman was going to get airtime with Super Friends so Namor was redundant. The Namor/Aquaman head mold wasn't fixed because of character confusion and the flesh suit went to Tarzan, a cheap addition to the line that required as little as Namor. He is, in so many ways, Namor of the Jungle.

Flash-Forward to 1976 and Man From Atlantis was commissioned for four MOTW for the '77 season. When you look at the Baiera notes, some of the other shows listed around MFA - Ark2, Hulk, Code R - were late '76 or '77 premieres. Mego was apparently developing licenses in conjunction with a show's debut and not after. Whether they were simply reading the trades or had someone like Weston actively seeking new licenses, I don't know. Either way, MFA was in the works before its premiere. In November of '76, Mego took out the Search For Atlantis trademark. This would have been around the same time as the show's production was announced. According to the MFA info at Plaid Stallions, Kenner had MFA prototypes in the works from at least Feb of '77. When you see Kenner/MFA was 3 3/4, it appears Mego either lost the rights to Kenner due to the Star Wars 3 3/4 boom, or was brought the rights after Kenner bailed and was developing a "Search For Atlantis" catch-all playset that would include "Aquaman/Namor",(Namor donned the Black Stingray garb in '73 and would have been easy for Mego to make following the Falcon/Neptunian design). If it's the former, perhaps the webbed hands were considered for a green paint job to simulate a gloved look and a way to ride MFA. That would explain the retroactive "First Use" date of July '76.

I tend to think it's the latter, so when MFA as a series didn't pan out as the next Bionic Man, Mego dropped the premise but was left with a huge amount of Aquaman parts, some Jaws rip-off sharks and however many webbed hands. IMO, this would account for why webbed hands are beyond rare. The production started and stopped within months, most was recycled in melts while the bottom was falling out of the 8-inch market in '78.

johnmiic

Jul 15, '10, 9:40 PM

I am really out of my depth in this Aquaman mystery but a couple of things have not yet been mentioned which could help or could be dead ends.

Man From Atlantis also had a comic book series from Marvel comics. Could the production of the hands for the figure coincide with the publishing of the comic book and maybe a request by Marvel to produce such an action figure? Marvel may have wanted to add MFA to their line up of Mego action figures? Perhaps there is correspondence between Marvel and Mego which could be researched? Does anyone have any MFA comics to check the dates of its first issue or if there is any mention a figure was coming out?

This is even a longer shot. There was a notable Star Trek Animated episode where Kirk and Spock met an underwater race and were changed into water-breathing people. Marty said he hated the STAS but the Klingon figure looks like the animated Klingon. Someone sculpted it, approved it and got it on to pegs despite the fact that he didn't like the animated Trek. Could there have been a plan much earlier on to make an alien race similar to the ones in that episode? Could the hands have been for that?

This doesn't really jibe with current theorized timelines as the STAS was around 1973 or so. Still I think there was animation of people showing off their webbed hands in the episode. Maybe the webbed hands were made much, much earlier and long forgotten about? I just wanted to mention it.

hedrap

Jul 15, '10, 10:06 PM

The MFA Marvel comic came out in '78, and IIRC, missed the entire series. IMO, it looks as if the show was supposed to go on, it was sold as such to licensors, and then it got whacked.

MegoMark71

Mar 3, '12, 8:44 PM

This was a question i wanted to ask after reading the aquaman section of bens book. Where did berto get his figure from?

Blue Meanie

Mar 3, '12, 9:35 PM

This was a question i wanted to ask after reading the aquaman section of bens book. Where did berto get his figure from?

I got the figure in an auction on Ebay. It was a lot of about 10 figures. The seller was I think a guy from New Jersey. It will be 10 years in July/August that I got him.

Finding out where the Catalog shot of the Great White set was taken would be about the only way to tell if mine could be the one in the pic. Here's the pic from the Museum Archive/Library:

http://www.megomuseum.com/catalog/1978/x/78-hro-x.JPG

Tothiro

Mar 3, '12, 10:22 PM

It will be so awesome when all theories are blown out of the water after we find out this was a modified fist fighter concept hand for a Tron disc throwing figure.

MegoMark71

Mar 3, '12, 11:07 PM

Blue Meanie

Mar 5, '12, 10:28 PM

Man that is so cool. You bought it in an auction. So what was the highest amount you have been offered for it? That is if you care to divulge that knowledge. I think the fact that only one is known to exist at this point is incredible

Not going to give out any numbers, but I have turned down 2 offers for it in the past 10 years that I've had it. I have thought about selling it recently though...who know's, it may be in the offing sometime this year...You never know.

MegoMark71

Mar 5, '12, 11:21 PM

Well sir if you ever do decide to sell it, I think you might get a pretty sweet return for it. I couldn't even come close to being able to make a serious offer. However we do have some collectors here that are loaded...lol It would be the sale of the year i bet.

zorro

Mar 6, '12, 5:46 AM

I am going to go out on a completely different angle here so please bear with me my friends :)

This is extremely interesting information as always Benjamin! Thanks for sharing!

Several years ago, I purchased a "Mego Mystery Man / Astronaut" from a person who was selling him in a factory baggie. I was extremely curious and asked a few more questions. Would you know it, he had a complete case of them "FACTORY BAGGED." I asked him where he purchased them and he said they came from a store that thought they were knock off G.I. Joes. The store just happened to have a case of them...I am saying at least 50+, though he would not tell me, he said it was MANY in the box. To Date, I have not seen another case of Mystery Astros. I believe, the origin still eludes us to what they actually are.

NOW.. Getting back to the Aquaman story, lets just say, these came the same way in baggies, but very limited like the Astros and is sitting in a warehouse somewhere. We are not clear how many Astronauts have turned up, but we do not it was not common. There may be only one specemin found right now of Aquaman, but as we quickly find out, MEGOS tend to turn up in the weirdist of places.

LonnieFisher

Mar 6, '12, 1:12 PM