TV's Greatest Icons List

[The Toyroom]

The list of "The 50 Greatest TV Icons," compiled by TV Land network and Entertainment Weekly magazine:
50. Larry Hagman
49. Calista Flockhart
48. Jimmy Smits
47. Simon Cowell
46. Lassie
45. Sarah Michelle Gellar
44. Susan Lucci
43. Flip Wilson
42. James Gandolfini
41. Jon Stewart
40. Sally Field
39. Jennifer Aniston
38. Bea Arthur
37. George Clooney
36. Diahann Carroll
35. Michael J. Fox
34. Bob Barker
33. Ellen DeGeneres
32. Henry Winkler
31. Sarah Jessica Parker
30. Alan Alda
29. John Ritter
28. Howard Cosell
27. Regis Philbin
26. Farrah Fawcett
25. Heather Locklear
24. Michael Landon
23. Barbara Walters
22. Milton Berle
21. Kermit
20. Carroll O'Connor
19. Andy Griffith
18. William Shatner
17. Bob Newhart
16. David Letterman
15. "Not Ready for Primetime Players"
14. Ed Sullivan
13. Jackie Gleason
12. Dick Van Dyke
11. Roseanne
10. Dick Clark
9. Homer Simpson
8. Jerry Seinfeld
7. Mary Tyler Moore
6. Carol Burnett
5. Walter Cronkite
4. Bill Cosby
3. Oprah Winfrey
2. Lucille Ball
1. Johnny Carson


I'll go with the Top 10...but I have issues with some of the others on the list, beginning with Roseanne at 11...

[Mikey]

Worst picks EVER.

Who voted for this crapfest ?

[mitchedwards]

Andy Griffith should have been in the top 5, along with Don Knotts. Also where was Fred Flintstone?

[The Toyroom]

Rod Serling is another no-show that comes to mind...

[theantiquetiger]

John Ritter, I do not see in top 50. He played a crappy character on a crappy show. Henry Wrinkler should be top 10, Fonzie is one of the biggest TV Icons ever. Bob Barker should also be top 10. I am just going by the title, "TV Icons." Farrah one of the biggest 70's Icons, and Hagman, one of the biggest 80's Icons.

[The Toyroom]

Why again is Jimmy Smits on the list?

[Mikey]

The list is a joke --- probably made up by 20 somethings.

No Phil Silvers...

What a freak'in joke.

[Zemo]

Worst picks EVER.

Who voted for this crapfest ?

This made me laugh my B@##$ off. I was thinking the exact same thing when I scrolled down to your post.

Where the heck is James Garner!

[Marvelmania]

Agreed it's is a crap list. I see at least 10 on there that don't belong in the top 50. Where is James Arnez (sp}?

[toys2cool]

Gotta agree fellas,this list does suck big time :bleh::bleh:

[Mikey]

I think it's kinda funny how just about ever person or show on this list --- had an affiliation with "TV Land" at some time.

Makes me wonder if it's rigged ;)

m

[huedell]

Well, considering I know who all these people are YET you guys who find fault with the
list are naming guys that I have no idea who they are-- makes me seem to lean towards
this list as being more legit than is heralded here---it IS an "icons" list after all

[Mikey]

Hue,
You are being fed a meal that a company wants you to see.
Us old timers have seen it for ourselves and don't agree with their crap list.

If you are really interested,
I suggest you not take this list at face value--- and seek out some of the recommendations we have mentioned.

You might find out THERE's MORE out there than TV Lands current corporate picks.

[The Toyroom]

Well, considering I know who all these people are YET you guys who find fault with the
list are naming guys that I have no idea who they are-- makes me seem to lean towards
this list as being more legit than is heralded here---it IS an "icons" list after all

Seriously? You don't know Rod Serling (Twilight Zone), James Garner (The Rockford Files), James Arness (Gunsmoke), Phil Silvers (Sgt. Bilko), Don Knotts (Barney Fife/Mr. Furley)? WOW! You really need to log in more hours in front of the tube, man!:smiley1:

And if it is an "ICONS" list, as you say, then Jimmy Smits, Calista Flockhart, Jon Stewart, Heather Locklear (sorry, Heather :wink:) don't belong on it. Simon Cowell, Sarah Michelle Gellar, George Clooney, Ellen DeGeneres, Sarah Jessica Parker, Roseanne I can sorta see where they're coming from and I would possibly include them on the list IF the list was longer. But with only 50 spots it's an injustice to place them on it when Big Bird, Mr. Rogers, Sid Ceaser, Maureen McCormick, Bob Denver, Elizabeth Montgomery, Barbara Eden, Lynda Carter, Adam Freakin' West, Phil Donahue, Marlo Thomas, Jack Webb, Walt Disney, et. al. are nowhere to be seen.

[ABMAC]

Bugs Bunny

[huedell]

No, Anthony, I don't know---"James Garner (The Rockford Files), James Arness (Gunsmoke)"
or Phil Silvers (Sgt. Bilko)----not my generation exactly---and I haven't recognized those shows
on TV all that much comapred to other shows since the late 70s-----
icons should be more familliar than that in my estimation

Actually---your post on the whole makes me think EW did a half-decent job from
your point of view---I mean no ONE list isn't going to be perfect to all people


Hue,
You are being fed a meal that a company wants you to see.
Us old timers have seen it for ourselves and don't agree with their crap list.


The "meal" as you call it is something I recognize---and therefore accept as being legit

Also, "Old timers" don't count for much on this list--

-what counts is the 2007 populace as a whole and who is recognizable as icons in 2007
...because it's not "this guy is a legend, so he automatically deserves inclusion on any
list regarding TV history" thinking going on here
I would say the definition of icon has mostly to do with "recognizability" (if that's a
word) which is why John Ritter deserves to be rated so high no questions asked


You might find out THERE's MORE out there than TV Lands current corporate picks.


Regardless of your intent to educate me Mike, your point is idealistic and doesn't play
into what this list is about.

[huedell]

My vote for biggest overlooked icon?

Florence Henderson

[The Toyroom]

No, Anthony, I don't know---"James Garner (The Rockford Files)----not my generation exactly---and I haven't recognized those shows
on TV all that much comapred to other shows since the late 70s-----
icons should be more familliar than that in my estimation

Actually, The Rockford Files IS part of your generation (mine too). And James Garner wasn't just Jim Rockford, he was Bret Maverick too, further solidifying ICON status.


Actually---your post on the whole makes me think EW did a half-decent job from
your point of view---I mean no ONE list isn't going to be perfect to all people


Half right also means it's half-wrong. I expected a better list from TV Land and Entertainment Weekly, considering they're supposed experts on the media.

But I bet we here at the Mego Museum could've come up with a more defining list than theirs, crossing all generations.


Also, "Old timers" don't count for much on this list--
Yeah why don't we add any old flavor of the week on the list then...:wall:


what counts is the 2007 populace as a whole and who is recognizable as icons in 2007
...because it's not "this guy is a legend, so he automatically deserves inclusion on any
list regarding TV history" thinking going on here
I would say the definition of icon has mostly to do with "recognizability" (if that's a
word)

'Cause I'm sure more people recognize Jimmy Smits around the world than Abmac's example of Bugs Bunny? Jeez Hugh, to quote Bugs Bunny, "Whatta maroon!". But wait..let me guess, you've never heard of him either. :juggleyes_y:

[huedell]

Actually, The Rockford Files IS part of your generation (mine too). And James Garner wasn't just Jim Rockford, he was Bret Maverick too, further solidifying ICON status.


That doesn't help the fact that me or my crowd that I grew up with have no idea who he IS
---same with Phil Silvers----(who? I know he's IMPORTANT, but he's no icon in my
world of iconic TV)


But I bet we here at the Mego Museum could've come up with a more defining list than theirs, crossing all generations.


I bet the group here could do a LOT of things that focused on our niche/demographic
---but that doesn't mean anything regarding this list---what's importnat is that everyone in 2007
knows the person reference, plain and simple


Yeah why don't we add any old flavor of the week on the list then...


That would be stupid...and I never suggested that---so what gives Anthony?


'Cause I'm sure more people recognize Jimmy Smits around the world than Abmac's example of Bugs Bunny? Jeez Hugh, to quote Bugs Bunny, "Whatta maroon!". But wait..let me guess, you've never heard of him either.


Maroon? I resent that---like I really would say that more people would recognize
Smits than Bugs Bunny----gimme a break--- and ---why would you say that anyway
about my logic when you know that's not the case?

Bottom line---lists aren't perfect and I think you guys are being too tough on EW's
choices especially when you don't seem to be defining "icon" correctly in a lot
of these cases

Some of these picks you made---I agree with a lot----Don Knotts? They probably
nixed him in favor of having Andy Griffith's presence be "enough" is that right?--- no.
But no list is perfect and yes---stupid choices will be made regardless of any
careful choosing

[Mikey]

Bud,
If you think Phil Silvers is no TV icon and have never heard of him.........
Than I suggest you just sit happily and watch Cheers, Family Ties and Cosby Show on TV Land.
Maybe the Jeffersons too.
Happily disregard anything that ever happened before 1980.

It was all nothing and worthless anyway--- said sarcastically.

[Werewolf]

The glorious Shatner is only number 18!? Beaten out by the likes of Rosanne and Oprah!?! Sacrilege!! Heresy!! This list is total garbage and is dead to me.

[Hulk]

Besides pointing out the fact that this list is doing EXACTLY what it is supposed to do (generate buzz and debate), I'd like to point out that there are 3 Megos, one CTVT, and lots of customs on the list. :googly:

[jwyblejr]

Why no Bob Hope? And Lorne Greene gets snubbed too?

[huedell]

Bud,
If you think Phil Silvers is no TV icon and have never heard of him.........
Than I suggest you just sit happily and watch Cheers, Family Ties and Cosby Show on TV Land.
Maybe the Jeffersons too.
Happily disregard anything that ever happened before 1980.

It was all nothing and worthless anyway--- said sarcastically.

"Bud?" C'mon Mike what is this about?

I take offense that you're implying that because I've found Silvers
to be pretty unrecognizable comparitively to others we've been discussing
---that now I am "disregarding" everything from before 1980----

I'm sure Phil Silvers is a great icon "of sorts". But the facts are that
not many know who he is.

Jackie Gleason...Milton Berle... icons....HUGE
Those guys were around WAY before 1980---from experience I've
found that Phil Silvers is nothing in comparison with them when
it comes recognizability in television

Mike its okay to herald "great television" and your attempts at educating
me on who the "real TV stars" are is admirable (if heavy handed)---okay--
-its okay to be passionate----but I don't think it has much anything to do
with who gets chosen for a list like this

Heck----show the average teen today a picture of Florence Henderson and
a picture of Phil Silvers and the results will speak for themselves on what
being an icon is really about---Flo might not have a HUGE response
---but guaranteed, she will kick Silvers' backside in recognizability on the
whole

Where's Florence Henderson on the list!! :)

[Johnny]

http://www.whirligig-tv.co.uk/tv/adults/bilko/bilko4.jpg

One of the greatest characters and televison shows ever, period.

As for the list. It seems very imbalanced with new versus old. I agree with Mike that the demo that submitted the bulk of the votes must be quite young.

[huedell]

http://www.whirligig-tv.co.uk/tv/adults/bilko/bilko4.jpg

One of the greatest characters and televison shows ever, period.



He may be...but that's the first time I've ever known what the heck he looks
like---and I was a TV junkie from 1975-99

He's small potatoes compared to the majority of other icons mentioned here


As for the list. It seems very imbalanced with new versus old. I agree with Mike that the demo that submitted the bulk of the votes must be quite young

I don't belive that MEANS anything----YOUNG people are SUPPOSED to
recognize the older icons on the whole (as opposed to old people---who
are better suited to know who the older icons are by the obvious fact that they are...um.. "old")---that's the point of having an icon list

Will young people recognize Milton Berle or Jackie Gleason???---not in huge
amounts, but a LOT moreso than Bilko up there
Same goes for OLDER people---most will know Gleason and Berle WAY more
than Silvers

Sorry to pick on Silvers repeatedly, but he is a great example of why I think
many on this thread are mising the point of what this list really was
trying to nail down---as sloppy as it is---its still better than you're making
it out to be

Its nice to be a passionate fan...but don't let that skew your perspective of
reality

Even I admitted how lowly (my hero) DAVID LEE ROTH was on the
pop culture totem pole for YEARS (that is until the recent tour where he's shot up a few rungs)

[huedell]

The glorious Shatner is only number 18!? Beaten out by the likes of Rosanne and Oprah!?! Sacrilege!! Heresy!! This list is total garbage and is dead to me.

On a side note---I was thinking that certain stars---if they had a significant success story on the silver screen that they might be voted differently as
they are spread between the two genres in media popularity

Shat sure did tear up the TV screen though---on so many significant shows

Surely on an overall "Hollywood icon" list he'd BURY Oprah and certainly Roseanne

[The Toyroom]

Hugh,
No where is it mentioned anywhere that the list was decided based on recognizability by today's audience...you seem to be under the impression that to be on the list someone say the age of 25 has to be able to readily identify them at the drop of hat when they're shown an 8x10 glossy of said icon.
To ME, "Icon" is someone who has transcended the media across it's 60 plus years/many genres and has undoubtedly left his or her mark for future generations.Just because it doesn't pop up on TV Land or a DVD set doesn't diminish the impact.
And if you're such a "TV junkie from 1975-99" as you say you are I have a hard time believing you haven't come across the works of the aforementioned slightly folks at least once. Maybe you should do your homework instead of commenting on a list you obviously don't fully understand.


I can't believe I let myself get caught up in another episode of the long-winded, quote filled "Huedell Show". Maybe someday you'll be an ICON for your performances and added to the list. :wink_y:

[Mikey]

Oh, i'll be the first to admit to turning the channel to the Hue Show.

I knew using the term "Bud" would inspire some good reactions out of our host :smiley1:

Remember that people.
If you wanna push buttons--- "Bud" is always the best way to begin :grin:

I've said enough ---- Bud ;)

m

[Johnny]

I don't belive that MEANS anything----YOUNG people are SUPPOSED to
recognize the older icons on the whole (as opposed to old people---who
are better suited to know who the older icons are by the obvious fact that they are...um.. "old")---that's the point of having an icon list



Your logic is flawed at best. The heading is "TV's Greatest Icons List" not newest or most recognizable by younger people.

Obviously people who were not around when Jackie Gleason was on television will be less likely to be aware of him or the impact he had. It in no way reduces his status as a television icon.

Using your logic Babe Ruth would probably be excluded from an all time baseball icons list due to the fact that more people would be aware of Arod than the "Sultan Of Swat".

The list is poorly conceived, as most of these types of lists are. It is full of glaring omissions as well as many inaccurate rankings.

"How did I get pulled down the rabbit hole into another Huedell maze of the verbose and the inane?" :grin:

[huedell]

Hugh,
No where is it mentioned anywhere that the list was decided based on recognizability by today's audience...

I never said it did---that's just one important aspect of that---young people count too dangit :)


...you seem to be under the impression that to be on the list someone say the age of 25 has to be able to readily identify them at the drop of hat when they're shown an 8x10 glossy of said icon.


Yep---that's a big part of it---that's an "icon"


To ME, "Icon" is someone who has transcended the media across it's 60 plus years/many genres and has undoubtedly left his or her mark for future generations.Just because it doesn't pop up on TV Land or a DVD set doesn't diminish the impact.


Yes it does diminish their impact---you can't be much of an icon if you're disappearing
out of the pop lexicon in favor of other things---whether they are supposedly "inferior" or not

Your definition is basically mine---you're just letting your personal feelings get in the way
of reality


And if you're such a "TV junkie from 1975-99" as you say you are I have a hard time believing you haven't come across the works of the aforementioned slightly folks at least once.

Believe it...if I did come across them---I have no memory of having done so...and
THAT'S the point
if these guys are such big icons I should at least have a vague idea of who they are--
and so should younger people


Maybe you should do your homework instead of commenting on a list you obviously don't fully understand.


This one time I DON'T have to do my homework---this "icon issue" is all about what you
should know intrinsically from watching TV and culture over the years
---NOT from research/"homework"


I can't believe I let myself get caught up in another episode of the long-winded, quote filled "Huedell Show".

That's just insulting---if you don't like what I have to say fine----
This "long winded" bull is wearing thin though-----an insult like that is just a lame way
of avoiding the truths of a good discussion

A "not lame" way would be not to engage me at all---- instead of lobbing insults

[huedell]

Oh, i'll be the first to admit to turning the channel to the Hue Show.

I knew using the term "Bud" would inspire some good reactions out of our host :smiley1:

Remember that people.
If you wanna push buttons--- "Bud" is always the best way to begin :grin:

I've said enough ---- Bud ;)

m

Yeah Mike be patronizing---and that'll get a rise out of me---big idea!
If you're proud of that---kudos and whatever

[huedell]

Your logic is flawed at best. The heading is "TV's Greatest Icons List" not newest or most recognizable by younger people.

Obviously people who were not around when Jackie Gleason was on television will be less likely to be aware of him or the impact he had. It in no way reduces his status as a television icon.

Using your logic Babe Ruth would probably be excluded from an all time baseball icons list due to the fact that more people would be aware of Arod than the "Sultan Of Swat".

The list is poorly conceived, as most of these types of lists are. It is full of glaring omissions as well as many inaccurate rankings.

You are SO not getting my posts----and you're making either YOU or ME look
foolish by doing so---- we're talking about Phil Silvers, James Arness and
whoever being second rate as icons---not guys like Jackie Gleason---
if you took the time to read my posts instead of jumping on this bash Hugh
bandwagon
---you'd see that I said Jackie Gleason WOULD be recognized by some
younger kids MORE (much more) than Phil Silvers and James Arness

Your post is "poorly concieved at best" not my point

Exclude Babe Ruth from a baseball icons list? Gimmee a break---make me
look I'm not getting this...nice try
Babe Ruth is the Jackie Glesaon equivalent in baseball----why rag on me
in this manner when I didn't even post the way you said I did in the first place

[Mikey]

Oh Hue, c'mon
If it wasn't for you --- we'd all be sitting here agreeing with each other and this thread would be long buried already ;)

You're a good devil's advocate :grin:

Seriously though,
If I was compiling that list, I would exclude all television shows from the 90's up to today.

I think an icon should not be confused with a flavour of the month.

If this list was compiled back in --- say 1990...
I'll bet Bronson Pinchot would be on it for Perfect Strangers :silly:
Today, people say WHO ? :grin:

[huedell]

"How did I get pulled down the rabbit hole into another Huedell maze of the verbose and the inane?"


Another one who results to throwing insults when he's frustrated thanks---johnnyc

[Johnny]

I read all of your posts Huedell. As arduous a task as that was.

Beyond this list thing what is really disturbing is your state of mind generally.

I am done with this thread, I only wish I had never gotten lured into it to begin with.

Not only do you not get the points others are trying to convey about this meaningless list you dug up, you just don't get it generally.

My advice and final word: Get some therapy.

[huedell]

Oh Hue, c'mon
If it wasn't for you --- we'd all be sitting here agreeing with each other and this thread would be long buried already ;)

You're a good devil's advocate :grin:

Seriously though,
If I was compiling that list, I would exclude all television shows from the 90's up to today.

I think an icon should not be confused with a flavour of the month.

If this list was compiled back in --- say 1990...
I'll bet Bronson Pinchot would be on it for Perfect Strangers :silly:
Today, people say WHO ? :grin:

Firstly, you're missing the point---this is a 2007 list---so it should reflect that

Secondly, perusing that list we've been jawing about...actually pound for
pound... I don't see THAT many "flavors of the month" as you're purporting
A few...but there's really not that many...it's not like Paris is on that list or
anything

Thirdly, thanks for showing some class and acknowledging my feelings
Mike it is much appreciated

[huedell]

I read all of your posts Huedell. As arduous a task as that was.

Beyond this list thing what is really disturbing is your state of mind generally.

I am done with this thread, I only wish I had never gotten lured into it to begin with.

Not only do you not get the points others are trying to convey about this meaningless list you dug up, you just don't get it generally.

My advice and final word: Get some therapy.

What?

You said in this post that you "read all my posts"---Bull

And where's the proof?

You also said in your post that I "dug up this list"

Maybe you should get therapy for unfounded bullying and insults---
that wasn't MY list-----I didn't "dig it up"

[Johnny]

You know, I am so bored and tired of your repeated tactics of provoking and then playing the victim. It is transparent, it is pathetic and it fools no-one. It is sad. Whatever satisfaction you get from provoking people on this board to debate the inane with you has to be greatly outweighed by the disdain for you it evokes in them no?

Perhaps not.

Again, sad.

[The Toyroom]

I "dug up the list" and if I had known it would turn into another Hue soapbox I wouldn't have. You're totally missing the point that it's a crappy and arbitrary list at best...not what you'd expect from a "TV's Greatest Icons" list. But I know who should/shouldn't be on the list in my mind and that's all that counts. After all the years I've spent logging time in front of the boob tube I think I know what I'm talking about. Not an expert but pretty knowledgable about "TV Land", something that TV Land themselves apparently are not anymore. No worries...this list will be replaced by another inane one eventually anyway.

Anyway, carry on...I now return you to the host and star of the show...the Great One...Huedell. ('Cause you know he's coming back after this commercial break...:wink_y:)

[huedell]

You know, I am so bored and tired of your repeated tactics of provoking and then playing the victim. It is transparent, it is pathetic and it fools no-one. It is sad. Whatever satisfaction you get from provoking people on this board to debate the inane with you has to be greatly outweighed by the disdain for you it evokes in them no?

Perhaps not.

Again, sad.

You would think anyone that read my earlier post about Jackie Gleason and
Milton Berle being huge "old time" icons and subsequently saw you slamming
me, and using Glesaon as an example of how "I don't get it" would
see enough that you don't read posts thorougly.

The insults you throw? Well I think that even proves more YOUR type of "tactics"

I feel bad you are this annoyed by me---but that won't stop me from my
usual debates----especially when I see that you'd rather bash than read my
posts judiciously to have a valid opinion on me or my ideas in the first place

[Comic Book Geek]

When you look down the list what visions pop in your head while you read the names?

Henry Winkler? You see the Fonz with thumbs up

Lucy... you might see her in a dozen get ups. Maybe with that sideways lip face saying "ewww"

Fred Sanford?

Where's Barney Fife?

Glad we get Ellen, Sarrah Jessica Parker, Jennifer Aniston... Wait. Why did we get them?

These lists are always wrong, possibly on purpose, but this one, to quote Homer Simpson is the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked.

[Johnny]

Okay for the last time. I purposely used Jackie Gleason because it was one of the people you considered a true icon. My point was that many young people would not be aware of him thus skewing any icon list they voted on to lean heavily on more contemporary figures.

I am done talking about the ridiculous list.

The larger issue is your severely poor social skills. Your lack of grace and class when discussing any issue. I have no "tactics" at use here. I am merely stating what I believe to be true. I did read your posts as inane as they are. Your passive agressive comments are not lost on me. Clearly you need professional help. I have bit my tongue through many, many of the circular arguments that you create on here just to hear yourself (talk) type.

Truly, from one human being to another. In my opinion you need help. Not a bash. Not a joke. My true opinion.


TOYROOM sorry for not giving you credit for coming up with the list. After Huedell's agressive hi-jacking of your thread it became hard to remember that anyone other than him even posted on it.

[huedell]

I "dug up the list" and if I had known it would turn into another Hue soapbox I wouldn't have. You're totally missing the point that it's a crappy and arbitrary list at best...not what you'd expect from a "TV's Greatest Icons" list. But I know who should/shouldn't be on the list in my mind and that's all that counts. After all the years I've spent logging time in front of the boob tube I think I know what I'm talking about. Not an expert but pretty knowledgable about "TV Land", something that TV Land themselves apparently are not anymore. No worries...this list will be replaced by another inane one eventually anyway.

Anyway, carry on...I now return you to the host and star of the show...the Great One...Huedell. ('Cause you know he's coming back after this commercial break...:wink_y:)

And we're back...

What's so bad about expressing why I think this is a better list than you purport?

I'm not insulting you because you feel the way you do..I'm just relating my
experiences...and frankly...its a tough thing to argue against my
statistics in this thread (my views and that of people younger than me
AND the older people who know who Gleason is over Silvers 3 to 1)-

--the only argument YOU guys have that holds water is about the definition
of "icon" to begin with which is fine by me

And I agree that lists are arbitrary and that more lists are to come...

Well, with more lists...there's more discussion

Maybe I'll agree with you next time...one things for sure---I won't point
fingers at someone who disagrees and make him out to be a spotlight
searcher----I'll say: "hey that guy disagrees" and try to have a mature discussion if the mood strikes me

I think I've been nothing but classy throughout this whole thing---can't say the same for you guys

[Earth 2 Chris]

How can Barney Fife get greatest TV character ever in a "list" a few years back, but Don Knotts NOT make this list.

The truth is, TV icons ain't what they used to be. There are more than 3 channels now. The commonality of TV is gone. So many of the icons who first appeared after say 1990 or so, I find highly suspect.

Chris

[huedell]

Okay for the last time. I purposely used Jackie Gleason because it was one of the people you considered a true icon. My point was that many young people would not be aware of him thus skewing any icon list they voted on to lean heavily on more comtemporay figures.


Yes, but what you're missing is that "YOUNG PEOPLE COUNT TOO" just as much as older
people----everybody counts equally in these things----so the list SHOULD be skewed--
-it's 2007 NOT 1977

Still, I appreciate the deeper explanation of the "Gleason thing"----I am totally sincere
about this by the way -----it beats you throwing insults

As far as your advice about my social skills and therapy----I think you're
overblowing things here----if someone wants to talk rationally to me about my board
ettiquette, I'm all ears----I just tune out with the insults flying

[huedell]

How can Barney Fife get greatest TV character ever in a "list" a few years back, but Don Knotts NOT make this list.

I think the inclusion of Andy Griffith and John Ritter may have had something
to do with the great Knotts being overshadowed (Knotts being penalized
in exchange for his castmates inclusion)

Shouldn'ta happened in my opinion, but that's inaccurate lists for ya---



The truth is, TV icons ain't what they used to be. There are more than 3 channels now. The commonality of TV is gone. So many of the icons who first appeared after say 1990 or so, I find highly suspect.


Excellent point--and a good way to phrase the scenario Chris----

The post-1990 icons are going to be more wobbly for sure BUT that's
the deal these days---

That's been a big part of my argument throughout this thread guys---it
may not be pretty---you may not agree with it---you may not like it---
but that's reality

The OTHER point I've been trying to make is because some of 2007 TVs
older icons are being phased out by new TV programming---they simply
aren't the huge icons they used to be. This "phasing out" couldn't have
happened so easily "pre-cable" TV during the time Chris pointed that there
was more "commonality" in TV icons----again---you may not like that---
but they are disappearing out of pop culture---its that simple

[ScottA]

No list will please everyone. Were the people who made the list twenty-somethings or people in their 40's-50's? What are they using as criteria for being an "icon"? Who knows. I don't agree with several on the list as well. But the list did manage to spark a discussion.

Speaking of TV I've been watching Who Wants to be a Millionaire each evening, which is having TV Week. All questions are TV related and are from now to back in the days. I've been doing pretty well. I've answered most without having to use a lifeline. Do you know who the green alien was in Star Trek, who Lee Stetson was or the name of the candy shop Lucy and Ethel were working at wrapping those chocolates? :smiley1: No one has gotten past the $100,000 question yet but I would have. I knew the $250,000 question last night but the guy bailed.

[Mikey]

Actually, I don't blame Hue one bit for his comments.

Hue --- like the whole new generation was raised with a cable company telling them what's "classic TV" and what's not.

The only prob, this "cable company" has their own agenda.

It's quite sad........

TV Land is NOT classic TV personified.
They're just like any other money making organization.
They promote ONLY what they have their grubby fingers on.
Everything else is inconsequential and doesn't exist.

[Comic Book Geek]

The truth is, TV icons ain't what they used to be. There are more than 3 channels now. The commonality of TV is gone. So many of the icons who first appeared after say 1990 or so, I find highly suspect.


This is a great point. Everyone watching TV when we were young had seen brady Bunch, Happy Days etc...

I've never seen an episode of Sex in the City or Sopranos

[huedell]

Actually, I don't blame Hue one bit for his comments.

Hue --- like the whole new generation was raised with a cable company telling them what's "classic TV" and what's not.

The only prob, this "cable company" has their own agenda.

It's quite sad........

TV Land is NOT classic TV personified.
They're just like any other money making organization.
They promote ONLY what they have their grubby fingers on.
Everything else is inconsequential and doesn't exist.

We're on the same page Mike...

It's simply outta my hands what people like myself have had pumped
into their brains by the media

Even you making me out to be a "feel sorry for" drone doesn't come off
as malicious because I know you really mean it in a sympathetic way because
of your passion for the stuff you love that passed me by

Would I be better off with having more exposure to the icons you
brought up (and I criticized as being less visible)???
Possibly----but that wasn't my point...in this thread (see past posts)

As far as the media and newfangled cable stations messing with pop culture's
potential as the years have gone on----I think the best example of this is
what's happened to MTV over the years--
--they squandered SO much potential the channel had to better
the rock music landsacpe---I guess their "more music oriented" programming
of VH-1 is a consolation, but I think its a small one

[Adam West]

Well getting back to the main topic Bob Barker and Fred Rogers (Mr. Rogers) are missing from the list and I would venture to guess that even most the younger generation know who these two are.

[huedell]

Well getting back to the main topic Bob Barker and Fred Rogers (Mr. Rogers) are missing from the list and I would venture to guess that even most the younger generation know who these two are.

Bob Barker is actually included at #34 and, yes, Mr. Rogers and Barker are
good examples---even though Rogers has passed on---its relatively recently
he retired---and maybe they even still show reruns?

[Adam West]

Bob Barker is actually included at #34 and, yes, Mr. Rogers and Barker are
good examples---even though Rogers has passed on---its relatively recently
he retired---and maybe they even still show reruns?

There are quite a few people on the list who have passed on. I am trying to look at it objectively and I agree that there are quite a few on the list that don't seem to belong or if they do belong, their ranking seems awful high.

The most glaring ones in my eyes are Homer Simpson (if they are including cartoon characters, I think there are icons that have weathered the test of time longer) and Sarah Michelle Gellar...did she do anything besides Buffy the Vampire Slayer (which I don't think scorched up the ratings charts) and a brief stint on a Soap Opera?

If they are choosing stars based on shows with long runs, Ted Danson has to be on that list. That show was on for 10 or 11 years and the #1 show for I don't know how long.

[huedell]

There are quite a few people on the list who have passed on.

You don't say :)

It might have looked otherwise, but I was agreeing---and asking a question at the same time

My point was---now that MR. ROGERS (specifically) is dead/retired who knows how
his icon status would diminish IF (and I stress "if") there were no reruns---I asked im my last
post IF they WERE showing reruns---anyone have an answer?

[huedell]

If they are choosing stars based on shows with long runs, Ted Danson has to be on that list. That show was on for 10 or 11 years and the #1 show for I don't know how long.

Following that logic wouldn't it be more of an oversight that Kelsey Grammer
wasn't on that list---he too was on a show (FRASIER, obviously) for about
a decade that was just as popular as CHEERS---and on top of that he
was in Cheers with Danson too for about half its run

[Adam West]

You don't say :)

It might have looked otherwise, but I was agreeing---and asking a question at the same time

My point was---now that MR. ROGERS (specifically) is dead/retired who knows how
his icon status would diminish IF (and I stress "if") there were no reruns---I asked im my last
post IF they WERE showing reruns---anyone have an answer?

Yes, his show is still playing on PBS. His Red Sweater is hanging in the Smithsonian Institution in the Museum of American History Pop Culture section. Henry Winkler's leather jacket is there as well as one of Jim Henson's original Kermit's. I don't know how much more of an icon it gets than that.

[Adam West]

Following that logic wouldn't it be more of an oversight that Kelsey Grammer
wasn't on that list---he too was on a show (FRASIER, obviously) for about
a decade that was just as popular as CHEERS---and on top of that he
was in Cheers with Danson too for about half its run

I don't think so. His role did not play a prevalent part for most of the Cheers series until near the end. Using the logic above, Robin Williams should be on the list since he was on Happy Days and the spinoff Mork & Mindy but I don't think he should make the cut.

Speaking of which, Ron Howard is another one who seems like he should be on the list. I have to think Opie Taylor and Richie Cunningham are more recognizable to more people than Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

Maybe because some of the actors like Ted Danson and Ron Howard broke it big into movies, they lost some of their TV icon status but then again George Clooney is on the list so again some of the choices don't seem to make sense to me anyway.

I guarantee if you were to show a picture of Bugs Bunny to 100 people at random, regardless of age, Bugs Bunny would be more recognizable than Homer Simpson.

[huedell]

Yes, his show is still playing on PBS. His Red Sweater is hanging in the Smithsonian Institution in the Museum of American History Pop Culture section. Henry Winkler's leather jacket is there as well as one of Jim Henson's original Kermit's. I don't know how much more of an icon it gets than that.

and I don't know how much more I can say I'm NOT contesting you
than this :)

Seriously, though...I was just curious what the scoop was on his current
popularity----nothing more----he surely has been a major force in TV with
children up until a few scant years ago--that mean a LOT of visibility--and
with reruns that may continue for a long, long time

[jwyblejr]

I can understand why people are up in arms over Silvers being snubbed. How many shysters have been on cartoons that have copied Phil? They even try to copy his voice.

[huedell]

I don't think so. His role did not play a prevalent part for most of the Cheers series until near the end. Using the logic above, Robin Williams should be on the list since he was on Happy Days and the spinoff Mork & Mindy but I don't think he should make the cut.

Speaking of which, Ron Howard is another one who seems like he should be on the list. I have to think Opie Taylor and Richie Cunningham are more recognizable to more people than Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

Maybe because some of the actors like Ted Danson and Ron Howard broke it big into movies, they lost some of their TV icon status but then again George Clooney is on the list so again some of the choices don't seem to make sense to me anyway.

I guarantee if you were to show a picture of Bugs Bunny to 100 people at random, regardless of age, Bugs Bunny would be more recognizable than Homer Simpson.

a. Williams only appeared on 2 or 3 episoides of Happy Days---Kelsey Grammer
appeared on what... a hundred maybe...episodes of Cheers? And Frasier ran a LOT
longer than Mork & MIndy

b. I agree with you---omitting Ron Howard seems to be pretty wrong---
again, I think they are rationaliziong this with the fact that his co-stars
on both shows were included and that Ron was a successful movie director
too---not that that is a good philosophy in making this list---remember
despite certain points I'm trying to make here---I still think this list could
use a lot of rethinking

c. I don't think Ted Danson qualifies as breaking "big" into movies---Clooney
on the other hand...

and

d. Bugs is a HUGE icon---but maybe they percieve him more like a film star
like, say, the THREE STOOGES or THE LITTLE RASCALS (who also spent
alotta syndicated time on TV but started as film clips)

Bugs had a LOT of time on the small screen---but a lot of what he did was
used for the big screen (and still is every few years...Space Jam...Back In
Action...etc.)

Fred Flintstone on the other hand...

[Adam West]

Now that I think of it, I remember seeing Julia Child's kitchen from her tv series in the Smithsonian the last time I visited (about a year or two ago).

She's been doing cooking shows since the 1960's and I still see reruns of some of her shows today. She has been parodied on shows like SNL and was a major pioneer for a channel like the Food Network.

It's not worth discussing anymore. I'm sure they had their reasons for who they picked but it does appear that there are some icons that have stood the test of time and deserve to be on the list more so than some of the names.

[Adam West]

[QUOTE=huedell;60179]
c. I don't think Ted Danson qualifies as breaking "big" into movies---Clooney
on the other hand...
QUOTE]


I'm not saying Ted Danson is a huge box office draw but I'd say Three Men and a Baby and Saving Private Ryan were pretty successful. Clooney has had as many stinkers as he has had hits.

[huedell]

[QUOTE=huedell;60179]
c. I don't think Ted Danson qualifies as breaking "big" into movies---Clooney
on the other hand...
QUOTE]
I'm not saying Ted Danson is a huge box office draw but I'd say Three Men and a Baby and Saving Private Ryan were pretty successful. Clooney has had as many stinkers as he has had hits.

Danson was so unsuccessful as a movie star that he didn't even have the
high profile "stinkers" that Clooney was afforded

We disagree about the perspective there that's cool --- but I am just
under the impression that if Clooney is a huge movie star raking in millions
of dollars a flick and if Clooney is a "Sexiest Man Of The Year"
in recent years for PEOPLE Magazine while Danson lingers more on TV
reruns than anything else (let alone movies) that Clooney's movie success
HUGELY overshadows Danson's

But let's get back to T.V. shall we...

As far as cooking show stars----as far as icons go---they are pretty
designated to their respective eras without much bleed thru to the present
pop icon consciousness----but Martha Stewart (she's "kinda" of a cooking
icon) now THERE"S a significant overall icon in my opinion

[Hulk]

Besides pointing out the fact that this list is doing EXACTLY what it is supposed to do (generate buzz and debate), I'd like to point out that there are 3 Megos, one CTVT, and lots of customs on the list. :googly:

Good point Paul! :rotfl:

[huedell]

Good point Paul! :rotfl:

Awww geez. :smiley13:

Paul ---does it help that I was thinking "Paul made a good post"
anyways :smiley12::wink:

[Zemo]

If Huedell watched T.V from 75-99 all the time like you state and have no clue who James Garner is or the Rockford Files, You could not have been watching T.V in North America. No Way.

And It had of the best theme songs of all time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5pYtG_jo3o

[jwyblejr]

If they have someone like Roseanne and Homer Simpson on this list,why can't they have someone like Bob Denver?

[supes]

How does Calista Flockhart get on this list? That just shows the intelligence of those that made the list.

[huedell]

Bob Denver is a must----I too think they dropped the ball on that one

[huedell]

If Huedell watched T.V from 75-99 all the time like you state and have no clue who James Garner is or the Rockford Files, You could not have been watching T.V in North America. No Way.

And It had of the best theme songs of all time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5pYtG_jo3o

Actually I WAS in N. America during those years, watching a heckload of
TV---and interestingly--- although I don't recognize the intro montage to the
Rockford Files show----the theme song is very familliar.

[The Toyroom]

Not sure if this will satisfy some people (myself included) but here's the remainder of the list, 51-100, as published in this week's EW:

51. Bob Hope
52. Ron Howard
53. Ed McMahon
54. Florence Henderson
55. Fred Rogers
56. Betty White
57. Charlie Brown
58. Don Knotts
59. Ted Danson
60. Merv Griffin
61. Paul Reubens
62. Redd Foxx
63. Ed Asner
64. Phil Donahue
65. Pamela Anderson
66. Kelsey Grammer
67. Tom Selleck
68. Don Cornelius
69. Barbara Eden
70. Bob Denver
71. Rosie O'Donnell
72. Cher
73. Tony Danza
74. Joan Rivers
75. Peter Falk
76. Candice Bergen
77. James Garner
78. Art Carney
79. Angela Lansbury
80. Adam West
81. Dick Cavett
82. Ted Knight
83. Isabel Sanford
84. Cartman
85. Rod Serling
86. Jerry Mathers
87. Phil Hartman
88. Gavin McLeod
89. Robert Guillaume
90. John Stamos
91. Dennis Franz
92. Judge Judy
93. Neil Patrick Harris
94. Melissa Gilbert
95. Richard Dawson
96. Shannen Doherty
97. "In Living Color"
98. Meredith Baxter
99. Delta Burke
100. Marcia Cross

[jwyblejr]

The rest of the list isn't much better. How does a show make that list? Looking at you #97.

[The Toyroom]

It's similar to Saturday Night Live's "Not Ready For Prime Time Players" making the list (although no where near as talented as the SNL group)...the "In Living Color" cast doesn't have a catchy troupe name though.

[jwyblejr]

How does Adam West wind up so low on the list? How many generations know him as Batman? How many high school and college kids know him as the mayor from Family Guy? How many little kids know him as the crazy old guy from Fairly Odd Parents that dresses like a cat? Okay,bad example on the last one but you get my point.

[kingcarm]

I think #3 Belongs somewhere further down the list .
I mean c'mon before Jackie Gleason and Ed Sullivan ?

I agree with you there.

[kingcarm]

The list is a joke --- probably made up by 20 somethings.

No Phil Silvers...

What a freak'in joke.

I definately agree with you too!!!!!!

[Earth 2 Chris]

I got the EW issue Saturday, and it seems most everyone that should be on the list is there in the 100, but the ranking is incredibly off. Calista Flockhart? She's best remembered for being malnourished. Farah shouldn't have even made it. They gave it to her for her hair. Beyond 1 season of Charlie's Angels and "The Burning Bed", what has she done for TV?

And where the heck is George Reeves? Adventures of Superman is one of the few 1950s shows that has lasted into syndication and cable. And there was enough interest in George to warrant "Hollywoodland" being made. I honestly think George should have been on the list, even above Adam West.

Chris

[Adam West]

I agree. Yeah, you could argue some people should have made the list and others shouldn't be on there.

The biggest problem seems to be the rankings.

[mego73]

I was unclear whether this list was touting characters or actors. For instance, Homer Simpson was there, Kermit the frog was there, but most of the rest were actors.

Which brings me to the Star Trek choice, if it was chosen for the all round icon from TV, Shatner does win but if we are talking about the icon that represents Star Trek as a TV icon, well, that is Mr. Spock.

But the list was an overall joke though. I can't believe some of what got on there and some of what was left off.