Disney Collectors -need Some Help - Very Rare

[theantiquetiger]

My boss has been telling me about a Mickey Mouse animal cracker box he owns. Back in the 70's, he worked for the State Archives and he was told to clean out a store room and throw everything away. He said he was 1/2 through before he looked at what he was discarding. It was a bunch of packages that companies send to the state to have their trademark registered with the state. He kept a bunch of old flour and coffee sacks, and this Mickey Mouse animal cracker box. I went to his house to get it from him because he said he just had it stuck in the top of his closet. I took one look at this box and about fell over. I now have it in a top load comic book holder on a card back, in an acid free bag. He asked me what I think it is worth, and I have no clue. I told him I would not be surprised if it is over $1000 because there was no Mickey Mouse animal crackers.

When I Google it, I get zero hits.

I know there are a few Disney collectors here and I was hoping some one may know something. The lihograph on this thing is perfect except the one pic with the crease through it. The only thing else wrong with the box is one of the inside flaps is torn off but present. Luckily there is no picture on it.

Sorry for the blurry pics, took w/o a flash because it is inside the bag now.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r198/theantiquetiger/mickey1.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r198/theantiquetiger/mickey2.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r198/theantiquetiger/mickey3.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r198/theantiquetiger/mickey4.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r198/theantiquetiger/mickey5.jpg

[toys2cool]

wow dude you find some really cool items,I've never heard or seen this before,My mom use to collect a lot of Disney items but never seen it

[Bizarro Amy]

That is freakin awesome. I would contact Antiques Roadshow or the History Detectives on the Discovery Channel and see if they can dig up anything. The art on that looks like it's from the 40s or so.

[theantiquetiger]

wow dude you find some really cool items, I've never heard or seen this before, My mom use to collect a lot of Disney items but never seen it

Unfortunately its not mine. I just have great appreciation for stuff like these. I was wondering since he told me the company sent this to the state to register the trademark with the state and I cannot find any info on this box, that there maybe only 48 of these known in existence.

If or when I find the value of it, I may make him an offer. He doesn't want to sell it but his wife does, so you know what that means, its for sale!! :grin:

[batmanmc]

That is freakin awesome. I would contact Antiques Roadshow or the History Detectives on the Discovery Channel and see if they can dig up anything. The art on that looks like it's from the 40s or so.

this is the best idea or do completed ebay searches for unproduced disney products

[Hulk]

The reason you probably couldn't find it is because it is probably a knockoff. Notice the misspelling of Mickie, opposed to Mickey.

http://arcweb.sos.state.or.us/tm/foodpack/food3508.html

http://arcweb.sos.state.or.us/tm/foodpack/images/3508.jpg

[theantiquetiger]

The reason you probably couldn't find it is because it is probably a knockoff. Notice the misspelling of Mickie, opposed to Mickey.

http://arcweb.sos.state.or.us/tm/foodpack/food3508.html

http://arcweb.sos.state.or.us/tm/foodpack/images/3508.jpg

I never noticed it I have dyslexia and read it as Mickey, Thanks for the heads up.

[batmanmc]

see these guys cn find anything out for you. pretty cool piece even if its a knockoff. mike

[toys2cool]

I never noticed it I have dyslexia and read it as Mickey, Thanks for the heads up.

it's still a great piece,and you never know might even fetch higher cause it's a knock-off,just look at the Mr.Rock and Mr.Spock :grin:

[Megospidey]

I collected 1930's (ca. 1928-1938) Disney memorabillia in the late 80's/early-mid 90's. Here is a pic of part of my collection (still have some of it - most of it's gone):

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/6508/disneycollectionlp8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

It's not a knockoff - the artwork gives it away. This art falls between the years 1928-1933. Mickey's face (especially his eyes) usually determines the time frame. After 1933, Disney stopped drawing the single line over his eyes. The bulk of vintage Mickey Mouse stuff falls between 1933-1938, and American items are usually either marked "c. Walter E. Disney" or "c. Walt Disney" or "c. Walt Disney Enterprises" I know the website Hulk listed says 1934, but that date could be off by a year or two. Also, the Three Little Pigs debuted in May 1933, so it is sometime around that date.

More than likely it is a foreign, unlicensed piece. Probably either Germany or France (that is the reason for the misspelling). Just because the item was distributed in America, doesn't mean it was made in America. Since there are no markings that I can see, this is probably the case. Sometimes, however, an American item would be produced and distributed in those days without any markings. It's rare, but it did happen. So it could be American, but more than likely it is not.

I don't have a clue as to value because I've never seen one before. Hake's would be a good place to start to get an estimated value.

Wish I could be of more help.
__________________________________________

I will also add this:

National Biscuit Company (later Nabisco) had Disney's liscense in the US for food products like this during this time frame.

I noticed that the website Hulk listed has it being produced by United Biscuit Company of America. This is more than likely the reason why it has no markings - it is an unlicensed producted utilizing Disney artwork. Very common to do that in those days.

[toys2cool]

I collected 1930's (ca. 1928-1938) Disney memorabillia in the late 80's/early-mid 90's. Here is a pic of part of my collection (still have some of it - most of it's gone):

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/6508/disneycollectionlp8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

It's not a knockoff - the artwork gives it away. This art falls between the years 1928-1933. Mickey's face (especially his eyes) usually determines the time frame. After 1933, Disney stopped drawing the single line over his eyes. The bulk of vintage Mickey Mouse stuff falls between 1933-1938, and American items are usually either marked "c. Walter E. Disney" or "c. Walt Disney" or "c. Walt Disney Enterprises" I know the website Hulk listed says 1934, but that date could be off by a year or two. Also, the Three Little Pigs debuted in May 1933, so it is sometime around that date.

More than likely it is a foreign, unlicensed piece. Probably either Germany or France (that is the reason for the misspelling). Just because the item was distributed in America, doesn't mean it was made in America. Since there are no markings that I can see, this is probably the case. Sometimes, however, an American item would be produced and distributed in those days without any markings. It's rare, but it did happen. So it could be American, but more than likely it is not.

I don't have a clue as to value because I've never seen one before. Hake's would be a good place to start to get an estimated value.

Wish I could be of more help.
__________________________________________

I will also add this:

National Biscuit Company (later Nabisco) had Disney's liscense in the US for food products like this during this time frame.

I noticed that the website Hulk listed has it being produced by United Biscuit Company of America. This is more than likely the reason why it has no markings - it is an unlicensed producted utilizing Disney artwork. Very common to do that in those days.

wow that's some great info Derek,you really do know your Disney stuff:grin:

[theantiquetiger]

MegoSpidey:

You say it is not a knockoff? Did this company actually use Disney art on its box and got a registered trademark on it?

It is marked, Chicago on the flap that is torn off. What gets me is it is a trademarked item but not Disney. I guess back then just by changing two letter, they got away with it. The picture may not show it, but one I have is nicer than the one Hulk posted a link to because that has three missing tabs (one of the tabs has artwork on it) and the one I have is only missing on tab (no missing art work), but I have it.

MegoSpidey, I know you said you don't know the value of it, but as a vintage Disney collector, if you were to make a fair market offer on this thing, what would it be?

[Megospidey]

MegoSpidey:

You say it is not a knockoff? Did this company actually use Disney art on its box and got a registered trademark on it?

It is marked, Chicago on the flap that is torn off. What gets me is it is a trademarked item but not Disney. I guess back then just by changing two letter, they got away with it. The picture may not show it, but one I have is nicer than the one Hulk posted a link to because that has three missing tabs (one of the tabs has artwork on it) and the one I have is only missing on tab (no missing art work), but I have it.

MegoSpidey, I know you said you don't know the value of it, but as a vintage Disney collector, if you were to make a fair market offer on this thing, what would it be?

That is Disney art - no doubt about it. Looks like an early artist by the name of Ub Iwerks. Walt himself couldn't really draw - he was the idea man. Ub did all of the early artwork. Most of the unlicensed, foreign art has Mickey looking more like a rat instead of a mouse. Ocassionally, foreign artists would copy American art - but the more I look at this it looks like it was made in the states and not overseas.

As I said, Nabisco (National Biscuit Company) had the licensing for many food products like this. If United Biscuit Company wanted to produce Mickey stuff, it would have been easy for them to copy the artwork and change the spelling of his name to get around the liscensing issue. So yes and no - it is a knockoff in that it's not a licensed Disney item from that time era. But it's not a knockoff in the area of artwork - that is Disney artwork for sure. Not sure how they obtained it, but it's Disney nonethless.

As far as value - because it is a paper product and a food product, it is a high dollar item. Paper products like this box were meant to be thrown away. I would probably value it somewhere between $500-1500...maybe even more since it's not a licensed Disney item.

I've seen Post Toasties boxes with Mickey artwork go for this amount, so that's what I'm using for my gauge. Hope this helps.

[theantiquetiger]

Thanks for the info, it is alot of help. I am wondering if these ever hit the market, because other than the link to the Oregon State Archives (mine came from Louisiana State Archives) there are no hits on this thing.

[saildog]

Does this help at all? Evidently, there was a lawsuit around 1934.


July 31

* Disney files a lawsuit against the United Biscuit Company of America, Sawyer Biscuit Company, and the Chicago Carton Company. The case involves the unauthorized use of Disney characters for animal crackers. The suit is settled in favor of Disney after four months. [113.273]

http://www.islandnet.com/~kpolsson/disnehis/disn1934.htm

http://www.thisdayindisneyhistory.homestead.com/July31.html

United Biscuit Company was created by the merger of Sawyer and Chicago Carlton (among other companies) and later became Keebler (yeah, those elves are sneaky).

http://www.encyclopedia.chicagohistory.org/pages/2886.html

United Biscuit Company

Mickie Mouse Animal Crackers - #3508, United Biscuit Company of America, Illinois, 1934
http://arcweb.sos.state.or.us/tm/foodpack/food3508.html

(Hulk's Link)

[Megospidey]

Thanks for the info, it is alot of help. I am wondering if these ever hit the market, because other than the link to the Oregon State Archives (mine came from Louisiana State Archives) there are no hits on this thing.


They probably hit the market in certain markets, but production stopped when a lawsuit was filed against them. This, along with the disposable nature of the item, account for the reason why there are so few of them.

There are Disney collectors out there who collect only unlicensed, vintage Disney items like this.
__________________________________________


Does this help at all? Evidently, there was a lawsuit around 1934.



http://www.islandnet.com/~kpolsson/disnehis/disn1934.htm

http://www.thisdayindisneyhistory.homestead.com/July31.html

United Biscuit Company was created by the merger of Sawyer and Chicago Carlton (among other companies) and later became Keebler (yeah, those elves are sneaky).

http://www.encyclopedia.chicagohistory.org/pages/2886.html

United Biscuit Company

http://arcweb.sos.state.or.us/tm/foodpack/food3508.html

(Hulk's Link)

This explains A LOT. From what I've read, there were many unlicensed Disney products floating around in those days. They didn't go after all of them, but apparently they did this company.

[theantiquetiger]

Man, thank both of you for the info. So this thing is VERY RARE. If this thing did hit the market it was only for a few months.

I may make him a big offer.

[toys2cool]

wow this thing is getting pretty interesting ,are you going to list it on ebay then? if so let us know,I'd love too what happens with it :grin:

[batmanmc]

would be interesting to see what its worth.very interseting stuffon this. wow everything has a story. mike

[Megospidey]

Man, thank both of you for the info. So this thing is VERY RARE. If this thing did hit the market it was only for a few months.

I may make him a big offer.

If you are planning to turn it, don't make it too big. You know how this thing works. The right collector on eBay will have to see it - someone who has been looking for it for a long time.

It is rare, but the Disney market has been flat the last several years - and you know also that condition is a MAJOR factor. Some folks won't buy it unless it is in mint condition.

All that negative aside - it is a fantastic, rare Disney piece and should (stress should) do well on eBay.

Keep us posted.
__________________________________________

BTW - the funny looking horse is named Horace Horsecollar. He didn't last as a Disney character, so anything with him on it is rare as well.

[theantiquetiger]

If you are planning to turn it, don't make it too big. You know how this thing works. The right collector on eBay will have to see it - someone who has been looking for it for a long time.

It is rare, but the Disney market has been flat the last several years - and you know also that condition is a MAJOR factor. Some folks won't buy it unless it is in mint condition.

All that negative aside - it is a fantastic, rare Disney piece and should (stress should) do well on eBay.

Keep us posted.
__________________________________________

BTW - the funny looking horse is named Horace Horsecollar. He didn't last as a Disney character, so anything with him on it is rare as well.

No, I am planning on getting it for my collection. If I was o sell it, I will sell it for him, take no commission.

[toys2cool]

No, I am planning on getting it for my collection. If I was o sell it, I will sell it for him, take no commission.

Just go with the wifes plan and sell it :grin:

[batmanmc]

listen to th wife sell it . make some money and make the boss happy. both the wife nd the other boss.:grin:

[theantiquetiger]

If I do not win this Davy Crockett rifle on Hake's next week, I will make him a pretty nice offer. If the clock sells for ALOT of money, I will make him an even nicer offer. If I can clear $1500 on the clock, I may offer him $1000 for it. It will basically be like getting it for free because that money does not count.

I wish I could get a better picture of it but I don't want to take it out of the bag. My pictures do not do it justice.
__________________________________________

Well, hit the library, did not find much at all on this box or the clock I have it posted on a Disney collectors forum, but they are no help.

[theantiquetiger]

Made my supervisor a nice offer today. I will know the answer Saturday night. When I told him I wanted to make him an offer, he said, "What $50, $100?". He was VERY surprised when I made the offer, and thought I was crazy, so it sounds good.

[toys2cool]

Made my supervisor a nice offer today. I will know the answer Saturday night. When I told him I wanted to make him an offer, he said, "What $50, $100?". He was VERY surprised when I made the offer, and thought I was crazy, so it sounds good.

Or maybe you got him thinking..hey wait a minute,if he's offering that much it's gotta be worth a lot

[batmanmc]

Or maybe you got him thinking..hey wait a minute,if he's offering that much it's gotta be worth a lot

thats what i would be thinkinbg unless i knew you had a huge disney collection then maybe i would think he just really wants this piece.

[Adam West]

Made my supervisor a nice offer today. I will know the answer Saturday night. When I told him I wanted to make him an offer, he said, "What $50, $100?". He was VERY surprised when I made the offer, and thought I was crazy, so it sounds good.

Sounds promising.

How is the clock auction going?

[theantiquetiger]

Sounds promising.

How is the clock auction going?

No bids yet, but a quit a few watches. I did learn that Japy Freres only made the clock, not the sculpture. He sold his works to many different clock makers, and it would be very hard to figure out who made the clock.

[toys2cool]

so what was the offer on the Disney thing?? :grin:

[theantiquetiger]

so what was the offer on the Disney thing?? :grin:

I will never tell!!!! :silly: :silly:

My wife might read this!!!

[theantiquetiger]

Ironic:

The Antique Roadshow's appraisers will be at the State Archives tomorrow and Sunday. They are fishing for items to feature on the next tour. Alot of the items you see featured did not just walk into the door that day, they were found on days like this and brought to the tour the next year.

I may bring the clock and Mickey, but bringing the Mickey back to where it came from feels funny.

[batmanmc]

let us know if you bring it what they say.

[toys2cool]

Ironic:

The Antique Roadshow's appraisers will be at the State Archives tomorrow and Sunday. They are fishing for items to feature on the next tour. Alot of the items you see featured did not just walk into the door that day, they were found on days like this and brought to the tour the next year.

I may bring the clock and Mickey, but bringing the Mickey back to where it came from feels funny.

so is it yours finally? Keep us updated :grin:

[theantiquetiger]

so is it yours finally? Keep us updated :grin:

No, not yet, he will give me his answer tomorrow evening when I get to work, but it sounds promising. I am glad a made him an offer before taking it to this appraisal fair. If it gets a high appraisal (and I have a feeling it will) and I hadn't made him an offer yet, I couldn't make him the offer I made him, it would not feel right.

[toys2cool]

No, not yet, he will give me his answer tomorrow evening when I get to work, but it sounds promising. I am glad a made him an offer before taking it to this appraisal fair. If it gets a high appraisal (and I have a feeling it will) and I hadn't made him an offer yet, I couldn't make him the offer I made him, it would not feel right.

yeah that's true,atleast this way you could say you didn't know ;)

I'm sure it'll do good man ,it's a great piece

[theantiquetiger]

Well, he handed the box back over and said if I really want it, I could have. He didn't sound too sure, so I told him to think about it until Wednesday, our next day of work.

I want to make sure he does want to part with it. He was impressed on the way I preserved it for him in the comic book bag and board and in a top loader.

So, it still is not officially mine

[batmanmc]

wow thats cool tiger. good luck with getting it. mike

[toys2cool]

Well, he handed the box back over and said if I really want it, I could have. He didn't sound too sure, so I told him to think about it until Wednesday, our next day of work.

I want to make sure he does want to part with it. He was impressed on the way I preserved it for him in the comic book bag and board and in a top loader.

So, it still is not officially mine

I'm sure he'll give it to you,he already saw that you would take good care of it

[Adam West]

Well, he handed the box back over and said if I really want it, I could have. He didn't sound too sure, so I told him to think about it until Wednesday, our next day of work.

I want to make sure he does want to part with it. He was impressed on the way I preserved it for him in the comic book bag and board and in a top loader.

So, it still is not officially mine

There was a person driving distance from my home who had a C-8 1954 Superman lunch box on Ebay. He wanted $1000 for and no one bid on it (that was book value at the time). I sent him an email and asked him if I could come look at it personally.

So I go to his house, he pulls it out and wow, this thing looks spectacular (better than the Ebay pics). He told me it was his lunchbox as a kid and when his mother died, he moved a piece of furniture to his house and there it was tucked away in a drawer. He said he knew it was valuable but didn't know what it was worth. I told him if he took some better pictures he could probably sell it for $600-$800 on Ebay and then to my surprise he asked me to make an offer.

I told him I really couldn't afford it but would give him $300 which was all I could afford and told him he'd do much better on Ebay. He said yes to my offer and said he could tell by the way my eyes lit up when I saw it that I wanted it for myself and wasn't looking to sell it for a profit. He was happy to have it with an owner who would appreciate it.

I never did sell it and still own it to this day. He even wrote up a little history on his memories of owning the lunchbox, the year and signed it as a bit of provenance....

[Man of Action]

So?? What is the value of this???did you find out..