Cipsa General Urko

[piecemaker]

I bought this CIPSA General Urko off Ebay about a month and a half ago and just recieved him today.Unfortunately the bandolier he was pictured with in the auction didn't make the trip.My question is about the bandolier and the M-16.Are they the same as MEGO or are they different?The rifle does say MEGO on it.Thanks. http://piecemaker.smugmug.com/Other/piecemaker-photos/DSCN2052/806659186_CyeYB-L.jpg

[cjefferys]

The rifles have small differences in the detailing, but I forget exactly what. I've heard that the bandoliers are basically the same, but I'd be interested in hearing a confirmation from someone who can compare the two. :) Those boots are definitely Cipsa, nice and shiny. BTW, nice Urko, I still need that one.

[Kal-El]

Nice grab off eBay

[highquality]

What is it wth foreign figures and missing accessories? I'm still upset over my missing BASA Superman belt.

Nice Cipsa btw.

[piecemaker]

Thanks everyone,i'm real happy with the great condition of him,kinda P.Oed about the missing belt.The seller has sold these before,but they always seemed to be missing that belt.This one wasn't and was the deciding factor in pulling the trigger on him.This transaction seemed destined to go wrong from the get go,it got sent back to him once because the box was so damaged?! When i recieved it,it looked like someone had stomped on the box,then the box was put in a big plastic bag and wrapped with about 8 rubberbands,the one end of the box was open,so i guess i'm lucky i got him at all.(And not damaged) :smiley1:I contacted the seller,hopefully he will find it laying somewhere and i'll end up getting it eventually.I have had things like that happen before.If not i'll have to find another belt for him,no biggie.Now the "missing" BASA Superman belt,that sucks bigtime,i would be highly P.Oed about that.:7:

[saucerful]

I took some comparison photos of a CIPSA and MEGO bandolier. I'll find them.

Nice figure, mister! Sucks that the part is gone. I imagine you are going to talk to the man about that??? Oy

[megoapesnut]

I have two boxed figures with the accessories sealed and the bandoliers look the same to me. Although it is a bit difficult to tell through the plastic and I aint gunna break em open to get a better look!

The rifles DO have Mego stamped on them and I can't see any differences, although again, it is hard to tell through the plastic with other accessories crowding around. I suspect Mego supplied the rifles, and heads to CIPSA along with the molds that CIPSA used after scratching off the Mego copyright info. But I might be way off base with that thought.

The boots are nice and shiny inside the bags.

[piecemaker]

I have two boxed figures with the accessories sealed and the bandoliers look the same to me. Although it is a bit difficult to tell through the plastic and I aint gunna break em open to get a better look!

The rifles DO have Mego stamped on them and I can't see any differences, although again, it is hard to tell through the plastic with other accessories crowding around. I suspect Mego supplied the rifles, and heads to CIPSA along with the molds that CIPSA used after scratching off the Mego copyright info. But I might be way off base with that thought.

The boots are nice and shiny inside the bags.
Thanks, thats good to know that the rifles did come with MEGO stamped on them.Your probably right about MEGO supplying the rifles,heads and body molds to CIPSA.They may have provided the boot molds also,but CIPSA used a different mixture of the plastic which made the boots come out with the "very shiny" look.The same may be true with the bandoliers,they may have used the same mold as MEGO,but because of different plastics or mixtures of plastic,they could have a slightly different look to them that makes them distinctly CIPSA,just like the boots. Bryan where you at with those pics??? :smiley1: I didn't check the WorldMego Accessory Check,maybe there's pics of the bandoliers there.I could've sworn i seen comparison pics somewhere. :juggleyes_y:

[saucerful]

http://worldmego.com/WMAC/Pages/59.html

[English Paul]

Somewhere I have a comparison shot between the rifles. The lettering on the stock is different although they do both say Mego. The grip on the handle is different too but I can't remember which is which.

[piecemaker]

Thanks Bryan,i was just looking at that,but the blownup version is much better.I'll have to look at the rifle that came with him and compare it with some others.Thanks English Paul.

[critter2]

I was thinking that the checkering was not on the rifles handle, but I could be wrong.

[piecemaker]

I went through al the MEGO M-16s i have and found 3 major differences in the checkering on the grip and the "MEGO" trademark. Coarse checkering,a finer checkering and no checkering on rifle grip.The rifle that came with this CIPSA Urko has the coarse checkering.I'm curious which style is in the sealed baggie that megoapesnut has. :yes: I'll post a pic of them in a few.

[piecemaker]

http://piecemaker.smugmug.com/Other/piecemaker-photos/DSCN2069/807147817_VA28c-XL.jpg The one on the left is the one that came with this Urko.The one on the right is interesting,no checkering,no H.K. and a few other differences.

[saucerful]

Hmmm
fascinating!
i'd say that the one on the right could likely be the CIPSA

[piecemaker]

Hmmm
fascinating!
i'd say that the one on the right could likely be the CIPSA

Thats what i was thinking,its got that CIPSA look to it and its the only one i have like that.I'm talking to the seller right now,he is saying he's going to send me another bandolier,so thats cool.I'm trying to figure out what he means by "resend its data".I'm going to send him some pics of the box.

[saucerful]

"resend its data" likely means he needs your shipping address again

[critter2]

To the best of my knowledge, the rifle on the right is the Cipsa

[piecemaker]

"resend its data" likely means he needs your shipping address again

I figured my address or shipping info,so i sent him pics of the box which has both.

[piecemaker]

Hmmm
fascinating!
i'd say that the one on the right could likely be the CIPSA

Yep,i took a real closeup look at megoapesnut CIPSA Card picture and the rifle pictured has no grip checkering.I dont remember when i got that particular rifle,but i'am definately glad i found the real deal to go with him. :grin: I'm thinking the CIPSA bandolier/knife has to be the same as the boots and rifle,slightly different mold from MEGO and has more of a shine to it.

[megoapesnut]

To the best of my knowledge, the rifle on the right is the Cipsa

Give that man a cigar. It wasn't easy to get a shot thru the plastic, but here you go.

http://www.megocipsa.com/ftpimages/rifle.jpg

[megoapesnut]

And here is a new wrinkle. My loose CIPSA Urko and Ursus both have rifles with a shiny black plastic, no checkered grip AND no Mego stamped on the stock.

http://www.megocipsa.com/ftpimages/rifle2.jpg

The rifle sealed in the plastic is NOT shiny as far as I can tell and it DOES have the Mego stamp. SO...either the shiny plastic rifles with my loose figures are not CIPSA, or they are, but were possibly produced at a later time when CIPSA went to the shiny plastic and eliminated the Mego stamp??? Food for thought.

[saucerful]

That is rad!!!

[saucerful]

I'm looking also at the plastic bumps above the grip and on the top handle.
Differences there between MEGO & CIPSA

[piecemaker]

Hmmm,that is some more food for thought.Compared to the last pic of the rifles,the CIPSA marked MEGO isnt shiny,but it does seem more shiny than a regular H.K. trademark MEGO rifle.I'M confusing myself now.:smiley1: I have one of the very shiny rifles also,i was thinking it was a repro.CTVT made a rifle with no markings,but i dont know if they are with or without checkering on the grip.I have to check that out.

[cjefferys]

Very interesting comparison pics, guys! I'm guessing that Cipsa went through various running changes when manufacturing their rifles, material and mold-wise, just as Mego did here.

[piecemaker]

http://www.classictvtoys.com/blackrifle.aspx CTTV rifles have no checkering and no trademark.

[megoapesnut]

http://www.classictvtoys.com/blackrifle.aspx CTTV rifles have no checkering and no trademark.

Yeah, I gotta believe what I see sealed in the plastic. Looks like the rifles with my loose figures are classictvtoys rifles. I am not sure where I got those but they look good displayed with my loose figures as the plastic is very shiny and matches the boots very well. At least I know that the rifles with my boxed versions are originals

[piecemaker]

Those CTTV rifles do go good with the Cipsa Apes. I'm with you gotta go with whats sealed in the bags.Thanks for posting those pictures.

[piecemaker]

I've heard that the bandoliers are basically the same, but I'd be interested in hearing a confirmation from someone who can compare the two. :)

We got the rifle differences figured out,but i'm also still interested in the differences(if any) between the CIPSA and MEGO bandoliers.Bryan,when you stated you had "comparison" pics,i took that to mean that there were differences between the two.I looked at the CIPSA bandolier pic you provided and i cant see any differences between it and the MEGO one.Are there differences between the two i'm missing? Thanks.

[saucerful]

I don't seem to have those comparison photos. I thought I took them, but only snapped a pic of what I thought was a CIPSA bandolier. I'll have to borrow a nice complete USA Ape for a photo shoot. But my thoughts about the differences are the color shade of the plastic, and also those molded bumps being ever-so slightly different.

Picture from WorldMEGO:
http://worldmego.com/WMAC/Thumbnails/59.jpg

Picture from the MM accessory check:
http://www.megomuseum.com/pota/accessory/genno/genbando.jpg

[saucerful]

Again from our massively helpful and useful MM galleries, the rifles:
http://www.megomuseum.com/pota/accessory/soldier/gun.jpg

[piecemaker]

I don't seem to have those comparison photos. I thought I took them, but only snapped a pic of what I thought was a CIPSA bandolier. I'll have to borrow a nice complete USA Ape for a photo shoot. But my thoughts about the differences are the color shade of the plastic, and also those molded bumps being ever-so slightly different.

Picture from WorldMEGO:
http://worldmego.com/WMAC/Thumbnails/59.jpg

Picture from the MM accessory check:
http://www.megomuseum.com/pota/accessory/genno/genbando.jpg

Well thanks for looking.When i first looked at the bandolier you pictured,i thought there may be a difference in the ammo pouch "buttons",but looking at it closer it looks like that bandolier is in "played with" condition and the "buttons" are simply worn down.Looking at the pic megoapesnut posted with the accessories in the sealed baggies,the bandolier buttons on it look to be the same as MEGO.Hard to tell on the color shade from those so a different shade of plastic could be a difference.

[saucerful]

I'm starting to wonder if I don't have a CIPSA bando
:juggleyes_y:

[piecemaker]

Again from our massively helpful and useful MM galleries, the rifles:
http://www.megomuseum.com/pota/accessory/soldier/gun.jpg

The gallery pics are very helpful,i've already checked those out.They cover MEGO and the known repro parts for each accessory.I've been to several websites and couldn't seem to find any info about these particular CIPSA accessories.(Rifle and Bandolier)The rifle has already been figured out,the bandolier is the question now.I'm sure someone here has the answer or we can figure it out.

[piecemaker]

I'm starting to wonder if I don't have a CIPSA bando
:juggleyes_y:

With the pics i've seen you post of CIPSA apes and their bandoliers,its possible you DO have one,unless the pics i've seen are old and you dont have them anymore.

[megoapesnut]

I pulled my CIPSA Ursus down from the shelf and my boxed Mego Ursus from another shelf and studied the bandoliers. I am certain, as much as anyone can reasonably be certain, that the CIPSA Ursus has a genuine CIPSA bandolier as I opened it from a sealed plastic bag of accessories that I purchased from Arturo. I also find it hard to believe that my boxed Mego Ursus was removed from the box and a CIPSA bandolier put on it as that would be highly unlikely and I purchased it from a very reliable seller who does not collect or deal in the foreign figures. So I personally believe the one to be CIPSA and the other to be Mego without a shadow of a doubt. AND...drum roll please...

They are exactly the same in style, design and color. There are no differences that I can detect whatsoever. The bandolier that is sealed inside my CIPSA Urko and Ursus boxed figures also both look identical to the Mego (from what I can tell inside the plastic). So my conclusion is that they are the same. There might have been slight color variations at one point or another, but I am believing that Mego supplied CIPSA with the heads, knives and bandoliers. Somehow CIPSA got a Mego rifle mold with no checkering on the grip and no "bolts" on the handle and they didn't bother to take the Mego copyright off the mold, like they did with the bodies - or Mego supplied them with the rifles as well from a slightly different mold.

Here is a comparison pic. Sorry it is so crappy. I was to tired to get out my flash head. Hopefully I will get time to do that over the weekend and I will post better pics


http://www.megocipsa.com/ftpimages/belts.jpg

[piecemaker]

Thanks for taking the time to post those pictures. :grin: :grin: :grin:

[cjefferys]

It's great to have a verification like that, thanks for taking the time to do the comparisons. And so in your opinion, the knives are the same too?

[English Paul]

, but I am believing that Mego supplied CIPSA with the heads,

The set of Cipsa'a that I had all had differences in the vinyl used for the heads in comparison to the regular Mego apes. The Cipsa vinyl had an almost transparent waxy look to it. The base vinyl colour just didn't seem as dense as the Mego heads.

[megoapesnut]

It's great to have a verification like that, thanks for taking the time to do the comparisons. And so in your opinion, the knives are the same too?

Yes, they are identical as well. I have also been looking art my sealed carded Urko and Ursus figures this morning and the bandoliers and knives on those look identical as well.

[megoapesnut]

The set of Cipsa'a that I had all had differences in the vinyl used for the heads in comparison to the regular Mego apes. The Cipsa vinyl had an almost transparent waxy look to it. The base vinyl colour just didn't seem as dense as the Mego heads.

That I have not seen. All of my CIPSA heads look identical to my Mego heads. I haven't pulled any out of the bodies to check the plugs though

[piecemaker]

I pulled my CIPSA Ursus down from the shelf and my boxed Mego Ursus from another shelf and studied the bandoliers. I am certain, as much as anyone can reasonably be certain, that the CIPSA Ursus has a genuine CIPSA bandolier as I opened it from a sealed plastic bag of accessories that I purchased from Arturo. I also find it hard to believe that my boxed Mego Ursus was removed from the box and a CIPSA bandolier put on it as that would be highly unlikely and I purchased it from a very reliable seller who does not collect or deal in the foreign figures. So I personally believe the one to be CIPSA and the other to be Mego without a shadow of a doubt. AND...drum roll please...

They are exactly the same in style, design and color. There are no differences that I can detect whatsoever. The bandolier that is sealed inside my CIPSA Urko and Ursus boxed figures also both look identical to the Mego (from what I can tell inside the plastic). So my conclusion is that they are the same. There might have been slight color variations at one point or another, but I am believing that Mego supplied CIPSA with the heads, knives and bandoliers. Somehow CIPSA got a Mego rifle mold with no checkering on the grip and no "bolts" on the handle and they didn't bother to take the Mego copyright off the mold, like they did with the bodies - or Mego supplied them with the rifles as well from a slightly different mold.

Here is a comparison pic. Sorry it is so crappy. I was to tired to get out my flash head. Hopefully I will get time to do that over the weekend and I will post better pics


http://www.megocipsa.com/ftpimages/belts.jpg

Yeah the bandoliers do look pretty much identical from what i can tell from your pics.I thought i saw a small difference in them but i think thats caused by the pics being taken seperately,instead of one pic with both belts in it.You still have the rifle that was in the sealed bag you took the bandolier out of? It would be nice to have a pic of a pristine example of the CIPSA rifle. :yes:

[English Paul]

That I have not seen. All of my CIPSA heads look identical to my Mego heads. I haven't pulled any out of the bodies to check the plugs though

I noticed it most when comparing the Galen/Cornelius heads and Dr Zaius.

Get the Mego and Cipsa equivalents side by side and i'm sure you'll see what I mean. Remember, it's not the moulds you are looking at, but the actual vinyl itself.

[cjefferys]

It's true, side by side, I can definitely see a difference in the Zaius and Corny heads, especially Corny, "transparent and waxy" is a good description. I don't see much of a difference in the Ursus heads though.

[piecemaker]

I compared my MEGO Urko with the Cipsa Urko,there does seem to be a different look in the vinyls.The trademarks are different also,i dont know if that means anything or not.http://piecemaker.smugmug.com/Other/piecemaker-photos/DSCN2086/809495361_dRcnf-XL.jpg

[saucerful]

Hey! This is what the museum is all about! Great thread with great info and great people and great sharing and yeah!!!

It's remarkable to see the CIPSA and MEGO bandoliers have even the slightest cracking in them as identical

[piecemaker]

While looking at those two Urko heads i noticed the trademark info was different.Does anyone know why this first head doesn't have the "APJAC" part of the trademark on it?http://piecemaker.smugmug.com/Other/piecemaker-photos/URSUS-trd2/809634821_hGRTX-XL.jpghttp://piecemaker.smugmug.com/Other/piecemaker-photos/ursus-trademarks/809634809_s3qFv-XL.jpg

[English Paul]

I seem to recall all the Cipsa heads having a different trademark info.

[apes3978]

While looking at those two Urko heads I noticed the trademark info was different.Does anyone know why this first head doesn't have the "APJAC" part of the trademark on it?


I hope you get a definitive answer because I also have a Mego Urko with the "20th Century Fox" copyright and no mention of APJAC (and I also have a Mego Urko that has the same APJAC/Fox copyright as your Cipsa)...

My guess is that it has to do with the fact that Urko was a character entirely "owned" by Fox... By that I mean the other apes had been used in the films which had been APJAC productions, but Urko was created solely for the TV series which had no input by APJAC, as Arthur had died by that point and Ms. Trundy (Jacobs) sold APES to Fox... APJAC had nothing to do with the series, nor did they create any new characters so "maybe" Mego corrected the copyright to go along with this?

[piecemaker]

I hope you get a definitive answer because I also have a Mego Urko with the "20th Century Fox" copyright and no mention of APJAC (and I also have a Mego Urko that has the same APJAC/Fox copyright as your Cipsa)...

My guess is that it has to do with the fact that Urko was a character entirely "owned" by Fox... By that I mean the other apes had been used in the films which had been APJAC productions, but Urko was created solely for the TV series which had no input by APJAC, as Arthur had died by that point and Ms. Trundy (Jacobs) sold APES to Fox... APJAC had nothing to do with the series, nor did they create any new characters so "maybe" Mego corrected the copyright to go along with this?

I think you are right,i did a search of APJAC after posting this and read that APJAC had sold the rights to 20th Century,but i couldn't find a definate date when that happened.I am assuming that happened mid 1974.I also just checked out the MM galleries on Urko and it says the 20th Century trademark only, started on the second issue card.

[megoapesnut]

That makes sense. I just checked through my CIPSA and Mego figures and here is what I found. My Mego and CIPSA Ursus figures all have the APJAC copyright. The CIPSA Cornelius and Zaius have that as well. Both CIPSA Bill figures I have do not, they start with 1974. Both of my CIPSA Urkos start with 1974 and My Mego Urko starts with APJAC, although he is a boxed figure and would have been produced before 1974 and the second issue card. All of my other Urkos are sealed on cards so I can't check those. I have a loose Burke and Verdon and they do not start with APJAC either, although the copyright looks different than any of the others. So...as I am thinking that all of the CIPSA figures were produced after 1974, assuming we are correct with that info, that is a little puzzling that some of the heads say APJAC and some do not. Unless we go back to the theory that Mego supplied the molds to CIPSA and maybe gave them some old ones? And for some reason CIPSA did not scrub the copyright info off as they did with the body molds. Or, it could be that Mego supplied CIPSA with the produced heads and gave them some old ones with the old copyright info that had not been destroyed?

[megoapesnut]

Here is one question we can put to rest. I realized that I had another source for CIPSA rifles. I got the accessories out of my CIPSA treehouse and all three of them match what we have concluded to be the CIPSA rifle. No checkering on the grip or bolts on the handle.

http://www.megocipsa.com/ftpimages/rifles2.jpg

[piecemaker]

That makes sense. I just checked through my CIPSA and Mego figures and here is what I found. My Mego and CIPSA Ursus figures all have the APJAC copyright. The CIPSA Cornelius and Zaius have that as well. Both CIPSA Bill figures I have do not, they start with 1974. Both of my CIPSA Urkos start with 1974 and My Mego Urko starts with APJAC, although he is a boxed figure and would have been produced before 1974 and the second issue card. All of my other Urkos are sealed on cards so I can't check those. I have a loose Burke and Verdon and they do not start with APJAC either, although the copyright looks different than any of the others. So...as I am thinking that all of the CIPSA figures were produced after 1974, assuming we are correct with that info, that is a little puzzling that some of the heads say APJAC and some do not. Unless we go back to the theory that Mego supplied the molds to CIPSA and maybe gave them some old ones? And for some reason CIPSA did not scrub the copyright info off as they did with the body molds. Or, it could be that Mego supplied CIPSA with the produced heads and gave them some old ones with the old copyright info that had not been destroyed?

Yeah,these MEGO/CIPSA,URKO/URSUS apes are more than a little puzzling to me. :juggleyes_y: That is some interesting information though,i'm going to have to check some more heads out i got.I dont have any carded apes to check,but the APJAC TM wraps all the way around the helmet on Urko,cant you see that from the side of the bubble?

[piecemaker]

Here is one question we can put to rest. I realized that I had another source for CIPSA rifles. I got the accessories out of my CIPSA treehouse and all three of them match what we have concluded to be the CIPSA rifle. No checkering on the grip or bolts on the handle.

http://www.megocipsa.com/ftpimages/rifles2.jpg

AWESOME THANKS!

[piecemaker]

That makes sense. I just checked through my CIPSA and Mego figures and here is what I found. My Mego and CIPSA Ursus figures all have the APJAC copyright. The CIPSA Cornelius and Zaius have that as well. Both CIPSA Bill figures I have do not, they start with 1974. Both of my CIPSA Urkos start with 1974 and My Mego Urko starts with APJAC, although he is a boxed figure and would have been produced before 1974 and the second issue card. All of my other Urkos are sealed on cards so I can't check those. I have a loose Burke and Verdon and they do not start with APJAC either, although the copyright looks different than any of the others. So...as I am thinking that all of the CIPSA figures were produced after 1974, assuming we are correct with that info, that is a little puzzling that some of the heads say APJAC and some do not. Unless we go back to the theory that Mego supplied the molds to CIPSA and maybe gave them some old ones? And for some reason CIPSA did not scrub the copyright info off as they did with the body molds. Or, it could be that Mego supplied CIPSA with the produced heads and gave them some old ones with the old copyright info that had not been destroyed?

Your post got me curious and i looked at the Alan Virdons i have.One has orange hair and is a type1 head with Trademark ,1974 MEGO CORP.The other one has light brown hair with,1974 20th CENTURY-FOX INC.I started a thread about the differing hair color awhile ago,but i never noticed the differing TMs.Anybody have any thoughts on this?http://piecemaker.smugmug.com/Other/piecemaker-photos/2VIRDONS/810342760_koNcy-XL.jpg

[megoapesnut]

Both of my Virdon figures have the copyright show at the left. Both of my CIPSA Bill figures look more like the right, although the writing is a bit smaller.