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did hasbro rip mego off?

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  • rche
    channeling Bob Wills
    • Mar 26, 2008
    • 7383

    did hasbro rip mego off?

    So the micronauts were introduced by Mego in 76? 77? and they were the same as the earlier Japanese toys, but marketed in the US. Mego adapted that body construction to use on the Buck Rogers and Black Hole line of toys.

    Then Mego folds and Hasbro revives the GI Joe line with an amazingly similar body with the o-ring and screw constructed limbs and all. Did Hasbro take the idea for this construction from an existing patent? Did they just usurp the design since Mego was out of the picture? Did they create their own VERY similar body based on the earlier Japanese micros?

    What is the deal?
  • ctc
    Fear the monkeybat!
    • Aug 16, 2001
    • 11183

    #2
    >Did they create their own VERY similar body based on the earlier Japanese micros?

    That'd be my guess. There were a few figure lines that had articulation like that, and I don't think you can copyright a rivet.

    Don C.

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    • LadyZod
      Superman's Gal Pal
      • Jan 27, 2007
      • 1803

      #3
      It's actually more complicated... and it involves what is referred to as "Derivative Works" in the copyright law land.

      Hasbro created the 12inch Joe and licensed it to Takara in Japan as Combat Joe.

      Takara adapted Combat Joe as a Cyborg known as Henshin Cyborg Hero
      (a derivative work of the original Combat Joe/GI Joe character)

      Henshin was shrunk and sold as Microman. At the same time Takara had started a spin off of Microman called Diaclone.

      Microman was licensed to Mego as Micronauts.

      When Mego went out of business, Takara decided to bring Microman to America themselves and combined it with their spin-off Diaclone. They licensed this combo to Hasbro....as Transformers.

      Full circle.

      Now, you have Hasbro's American Hero GI Joes based on the Microman body type...
      Which was based on Henshin Cyborg Hero...
      Which was based on Combat Joe...
      Which IS Hasbro's 12 inch GI Joe.

      That makes GI Joe, GI Joe's own grandpa!

      Did Hasbro rip off Mego?
      Nope.
      Mego was always the odd man out in this equation.
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      My life through toys: Tales from the Toybox!
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      • rche
        channeling Bob Wills
        • Mar 26, 2008
        • 7383

        #4
        that is awesome

        learn something new every day

        thanks so much for the lineage

        Comment

        • geotroid
          Shop smart. Shop S-Mart.
          • Mar 23, 2006
          • 63

          #5
          That's one way of looking at it. The historical chain is certainly intriguing and I've relayed that connection many times in the past to "wow" fans of other toy lines ;-)

          However, technically speaking, I think there are other ways to examine "who ripped off whom." It makes for good conversation and understanding of toy history and copyright laws.

          While I can only cite fragments of what's been told to me, I believe the Japanese designer of the original Microman 3 3/4" body (riveted shoulders, rubber banded waist, etc) was the person who got "ripped off" as Hasbro never formally cited his invention and correlation to their GI Joe body design.

          Mego was "supposed" to pay royalties to Takara for using that licensed body design in their other toy lines (Buck Rogers, Black Hole, some Dukes of Hazzard) but most likely they never did. Hard to prove, given Mego's spotty record keeping practices, but its very possible that Mego themselves ripped off Takara under the guise of using their existing Micronauts/Microman copyright agreement as a cart blanche for other toy lines they manufactured.

          This is a good topic! I'll try to round up some guys who know WAY more than me.

          -geotroid

          Originally posted by LadyZod
          It's actually more complicated... and it involves what is referred to as "Derivative Works" in the copyright law land.

          Now, you have Hasbro's American Hero GI Joes based on the Microman body type...
          Which was based on Henshin Cyborg Hero...
          Which was based on Combat Joe...
          Which IS Hasbro's 12 inch GI Joe.

          That makes GI Joe, GI Joe's own grandpa!

          Did Hasbro rip off Mego?
          Nope.
          Mego was always the odd man out in this equation.
          Chris Farley: "Mother of Mercy, I don't speak Japanese!!!"

          Comment

          • AcroRay
            Persistent Member
            • Apr 17, 2005
            • 1010

            #6
            "Rip-off" is certainly not the proper term to approach the matter.

            There's no patent on the O-ring body design. It was denied - rather foolishly, I feel - to its creator in Japan (Ogawa, I believe?) due to a similarity to a wooden doll design from an earlier century in Japan, so there was no follow-up patent in the west for it. The design is thus public domain.

            Mego never owed Takara any royalities to the O-ring design, as there was no patent or trademark involved with it. (Mego did, however, for use of the unique Magnemo/Magno-power system, which was patented by Takara in both the US and Japan.)

            Hasbro adopted the O-ring design for G.I.Joe:RAH, simply applying a design they liked and which was public domain. Very smart of them, I think. Its a wonderful design.

            Mego's standard 8" body bears similarities to the 1/18 scale O-ring design as well, I'll point out.
            Micronauts Collector, Historian, Consultant
            AcroRay's Laboratory - My Micronauts Blog
            The Micropolis Embassy - My Micronauts Group
            Rockets, Robots & Dinosaurs - My Blog for Other Interests

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            • LadyZod
              Superman's Gal Pal
              • Jan 27, 2007
              • 1803

              #7
              And it doesn't hurt to include Mego's legal history with Hasbro when it comes to GI Joe/Fighting Yank debacle... giving rise to Action Jackson, granddaddy of WGSH!
              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
              My life through toys: Tales from the Toybox!
              Check out my art:
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              • AcroRay
                Persistent Member
                • Apr 17, 2005
                • 1010

                #8
                That's neither here nor there. Mego was in no shape to offer any complaint when Hasbro re-launched GI Joe, and wouldn't have had any legal claim to even bother with it, anyway. Mego didn't invent the 1/18th scale figure format, and had no title to that scale of 'action figure toy' than did - say - Kenner/GMFG.
                Micronauts Collector, Historian, Consultant
                AcroRay's Laboratory - My Micronauts Blog
                The Micropolis Embassy - My Micronauts Group
                Rockets, Robots & Dinosaurs - My Blog for Other Interests

                Comment

                • geotroid
                  Shop smart. Shop S-Mart.
                  • Mar 23, 2006
                  • 63

                  #9
                  Wow, so the design is pubic domain! Interesting.

                  Sorry about confusing some issues, here. Curse my feeble memory (ha ha ha).

                  Upon further recollection, I believe confused the 3 3/4" figure topic with a different discussion where somebody mentioned that any new toys Mego implemented in the Micronauts line were subject to copyright fees with Takara. The toys questioned were the various Micro vehicles used for the Pocket Super Heroes line.

                  I sure wish I still had all of my notes from these discussions.

                  My external hard drive crashed, and all of my toy data is *poof* gone.

                  A fool and his unbacked-up data are soon parted. . .

                  -geotroid
                  Chris Farley: "Mother of Mercy, I don't speak Japanese!!!"

                  Comment

                  • Blitzkid
                    Member
                    • Feb 20, 2010
                    • 62

                    #10
                    I agree with ladyzod about G.I.joe being his own granddaddy-Because it seems the design came full circle-I am sure the elastic braid of the vintage joe inspired the O-ring design.

                    I have read that the chips bodies were what hasbro used as a base to start but hasbro's designs were an improvement as the bodies were better sculpted,better designed and introduced swivel arm battle grip which none of mego's or takara's 3 3/4" lines had-I always feel that the G.I.joe:RAH run ended prematurely in 1994-They were still going strong at the time the line ended.

                    -Nick

                    Comment

                    • Orlock
                      Megohead Superdad
                      • Feb 15, 2010
                      • 299

                      #11
                      Originally posted by LadyZod
                      It's actually more complicated... and it involves what is referred to as "Derivative Works" in the copyright law land.

                      Hasbro created the 12inch Joe and licensed it to Takara in Japan as Combat Joe.

                      Takara adapted Combat Joe as a Cyborg known as Henshin Cyborg Hero
                      (a derivative work of the original Combat Joe/GI Joe character)

                      Henshin was shrunk and sold as Microman. At the same time Takara had started a spin off of Microman called Diaclone.

                      Microman was licensed to Mego as Micronauts.

                      When Mego went out of business, Takara decided to bring Microman to America themselves and combined it with their spin-off Diaclone. They licensed this combo to Hasbro....as Transformers.

                      Full circle.

                      Now, you have Hasbro's American Hero GI Joes based on the Microman body type...
                      Which was based on Henshin Cyborg Hero...
                      Which was based on Combat Joe...
                      Which IS Hasbro's 12 inch GI Joe.

                      That makes GI Joe, GI Joe's own grandpa!

                      Did Hasbro rip off Mego?
                      Nope.
                      Mego was always the odd man out in this equation.
                      This post seriously just clicked in my head and blew my freaking mind. It seems so obvious, yet is new to me. Awesome!
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                      Comment

                      • bgrimm77
                        NORTHEAST REPRESENTATIVE
                        • Jan 4, 2009
                        • 768

                        #12
                        Ladyzod made my head explode!!! That was an awesome break down
                        WHEREVER YOU ARE IS WHERE YOU ARE AT

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