Questions About The Batman Series and The Comic

[Wee67]

I was looking at some trivia about the 60's TV show and found these trivia points. My question- are they true? (please forgive my ignorance)

-The character of Batgirl was created for the television series and was written into the Batman comic books.

-The Riddler was just a minor and forgettable villain in the comics. This series is responsible for turning him into one of the most popular villains in Batman's rogues gallery.

-Batman creator Bob Kane noted that this series saved the Batman comic series from cancellation when the show revived the character's popularity.

-After the show was canceled, the character's comic series took on a dark and deadly serious tone that was reminiscent of the original comics in the late 1930s as a reaction to the TV show's light touch.

-Mr. Zero was renamed Mr. Freeze for this series. The named change eventually made its way into the comics as well.

-Before the series began the comic book Batman had a black bat emblem on his gray chest which was had to see on the screen. To make it easier to see a yellow oval was added around the bat emblem. The oval was added to the comic book costume also. After the series ended the comic book costume eventually went back to no oval around the bat symbol.

[palitoy]

-The Riddler was just a minor and forgettable villain in the comics. This series is responsible for turning him into one of the most popular villains in Batman's rogues gallery.

True, rumour has it Bill Dozier just happened a rare 1965 appearance of the character and that started the ball rolling, he had been used sparingly prior to the TV series.


-Before the series began the comic book Batman had a black bat emblem on his gray chest which was had to see on the screen. To make it easier to see a yellow oval was added around the bat emblem. The oval was added to the comic book costume also. After the series ended the comic book costume eventually went back to no oval around the bat symbol.

Nah, I believe Infantino did that prior to the TV series, it was one of the changes that he made once they took over from Kane.

[Meule]

Batgirl made her first appearance in the comics in 1961 and I think you may be right about Mr Freeze

[Mego Milk]

they added the yellow circle so they could copyright the logo of the BATMAN!
its true.

[The Toyroom]

-The character of Batgirl was created for the television series and was written into the Batman comic books.

Batgirl/Barbara Gordon debuted in "Detective Comics" No. 359 (cover dated January '67 but on the stands around November '66). Yvonne Craig debuted as Batgirl on Sept. 14, 1967. So the comic book version was around much longer than the TV series character. Highly doubtful the TV series influenced the comic.


-The Riddler was just a minor and forgettable villain in the comics. This series is responsible for turning him into one of the most popular villains in Batman's rogues gallery.

The Riddler debuted in "Detective Comics" #140 (Oct. '48) and made his 2nd appearance in Dec. '48. After that he enjoyed a long hiatus until his 1st Silver Age appearance in "Batman" #171 (May '65). So, yes, Frank Gorshin's stellar performance is responsible for really putting the Riddler on the map as one of Batman's top 4 foes.


-Batman creator Bob Kane noted that this series saved the Batman comic series from cancellation when the show revived the character's popularity.

Possibly....during the beginning of the 60s, Batman was battling aliens every month it seemed...the franchise seemed doomed. Enter editor Julius Schwartz who assigned artist Carmine Infantino with overhauling the look of the Batman strip (prior to that the artwork was done by many ghosts in the Bob Kane style)....


-Before the series began the comic book Batman had a black bat emblem on his gray chest which was had to see on the screen. To make it easier to see a yellow oval was added around the bat emblem. The oval was added to the comic book costume also. After the series ended the comic book costume eventually went back to no oval around the bat symbol.

....Infantino's "New Look" Batman, complete with yellow oval around the bat, debuted in "Detective Comics" #327 (May '64)...again, long before the TV series debuted (Jan. 12, 1966)


-After the show was canceled, the character's comic series took on a dark and deadly serious tone that was reminiscent of the original comics in the late 1930s as a reaction to the TV show's light touch.

After the show was cancelled, the comic also took a hit in sales once again....Julius Schwartz changed things up and gave the ball to writer Denny O'Neil and artist Neal Adams beginning in '69. In an effort to distance themselves from the camp approach of the TV show, O'Neil and Adams introduced new foes like Ra's Al Ghul and revived old ones like the Joker and Two-Face and made Batman the Darknight Detective he is known as today.


-Mr. Zero was renamed Mr. Freeze for this series. The named change eventually made its way into the comics as well.

Mr. Zero 1st appeared in "Batman" #121 (Feb. '59)...and yes, it was the TV show that renamed him as Mr. Freeze and pushed him to the front as one of Batman's most tenacious foes.

[The Toyroom]

Batgirl made her first appearance in the comics in 1961

Yeah but that's the Betty Kane version of Bat-Girl (notice the hyphen)...the Barbara Gordon version didn't debut until '66.

[Earth 2 Chris]

But Batgirl was created for the comics at the request of Bill Dozier, who wanted to add a female character to the show to bolster the ratings, which were slipping. So if Dozier hadn't requested it, Julius Schwartz, Gardner Fox and Carmine Infantino wouldn't have dreamed Babs up. So that is (mostly) true.

The others are true. The Riddler did have one appearance during the early New Look era of the comics, and legend has it that was the issue Dozier first looked at when ABC said they wanted to make a Batman pilot.

Chris

[samurainoir]

There were a few other "comeback" Batman villains as well, that debuted way back in the day but didn't find greater popularity until later.

The one that sticks out most in my mind is Deadshot.
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/b/bc/Deadshot_01.jpg
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/thumb/7/7f/Detective_Comics_474.jpg/396px-Detective_Comics_474.jpg
Although I think it was Suicide Squad that really put him in the forefront.


Although Scarecrow comes to mind as well as someone who wasn't really much of a player until Post-Crisis.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/6/6c/Batman_189.jpg
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/thumb/8/8d/Batman_296.jpg/390px-Batman_296.jpg

I don't think anyone would have pegged him for a Batman Movie Villain back in the day.

[The Toyroom]

But Batgirl was created for the comics at the request of Bill Dozier, who wanted to add a female character to the show to bolster the ratings, which were slipping. So if Dozier hadn't requested it, Julius Schwartz, Gardner Fox and Carmine Infantino wouldn't have dreamed Babs up. So that is (mostly) true.

Are we so sure this is not people re-remembering history as they tell it? I just question the timing of all this....if Babs Gordon/Batgirl debuted on the stands in November of '66 (with a January '67 cover date), then the lead time would have been at least September of '66 when the issue was put to bed more than likely and even further out when the concept was created and Dozier supposedly asked for the character due to slipping ratings. Which I find highly unlikely considering the 1st season of Batman ran from January '66 'til May '66 and the ratings were HUGE! The rating didn't start slipping until Season Two was well underway, at which point Barbara Gordon had already been created and debuted in the comics.

And if she was created with Dozier's request in mind, why did her TV counterpart debut almost a year after the request? Considering she was introduced in one half-hour episode, she could have easily been introduced toward the end of the failing Season 2 as an incentive boost for viewers going in to Season 3.

[Captain]

I know Batgirl was brought in to pick up ratings, but I was under the impression she was first intended as a spin off companion series. When the pilot wasnt picked up it was decided to drop her into the Batman series?

Either way the comic version was first. I remember reading an interview with Dozier, where he recounted a meeting with the comic editorial staff and they were not happy he hadnt used the comic uniform. From the gist of things, I got the feeling Dozier had little regard for the comics people and pretty much ignored them.

[cdhall]

Thanks ToyRoom for that excellent, detailed response.

And to the others as well.

[Earth 2 Chris]

Are we so sure this is not people re-remembering history as they tell it? I just question the timing of all this....if Babs Gordon/Batgirl debuted on the stands in November of '66 (with a January '67 cover date), then the lead time would have been at least September of '66 when the issue was put to bed more than likely and even further out when the concept was created and Dozier supposedly asked for the character due to slipping ratings. Which I find highly unlikely considering the 1st season of Batman ran from January '66 'til May '66 and the ratings were HUGE! The rating didn't start slipping until Season Two was well underway, at which point Barbara Gordon had already been created and debuted in the comics.

And if she was created with Dozier's request in mind, why did her TV counterpart debut almost a year after the request? Considering she was introduced in one half-hour episode, she could have easily been introduced toward the end of the failing Season 2 as an incentive boost for viewers going in to Season 3.

It could be false memories, but every Bat-book I've read says Dozier asked for a new Batgirl. Some claim he even asked for her to be Gordon's daughter. The most recent book that carries this notion forth is TwoMorrow's Batcave Companion. Schwartz and especially Infantino have been known to tell different versions of character origins over the years, but what I've read of Batgirl's has been pretty consistent.

The time lag could be the usual "hurry up and wait" mentality of Hollywood. Dozier asked for Schwartz to come up with a new Batgirl, he did it, and then Dozier sat on it for a while. Remember DC shelved plans for Lois and Clark's wedding due to the TV series, and had them on hold much longer than anticipated, because the show kept pushing the nuptials back.



Chris

[The Toyroom]

The way I've always understood it is Barbara Gordon/Batgirl was already in development by Julius Schwartz and Carmine Infantino as part of their revival...they had brought back Catwoman, introduced Poison Ivy and Batgirl was the next progression in amping up the female element.

William Dozier saw some of Infantino's concept work for the character and optioned her for the third season in hopes of selling the network on the idea of continuing the series even though ratings had slipped in the Second Season.

Now maybe that's the part where Hollywood works slow, but I still find it strange that a comic book character the debuted pretty much simultaneously with the 2nd Season was created specifically for the hopes of selling the 3rd Season to ABC based on the fact that the 2nd Season ratings were slumping when the 2nd Season hadn't even really begun when Babs debuted....the logic and the time-frame just don't add up.

Unfortunately Schwartz and Dozier have both passed away...Infantino seems to like to give himself more credit than others at times.....So we'll probably never get a clear-cut answer.

I think in all likelihood, Schwartz and Infantino DID create Babs/Batgirl on their own and Dozier decided to option the character for the 3rd Season LATER on, after the fact. Of course, when Dozier told his story, it sounded cooler because Batgirl was the only real hit of the last season, so why not take the credit for it, since she had longevity outside of the TV series.

[johnnystorm]

Here's everything you need to know about the tv series:


DIAL B for BLOG - THE WORLD'S GREATEST COMIC BLOGAZINE (http://www.dialbforblog.com/archives/204/)

[Wee67]

Thanks to all, and especially Anthony. When I asked, I knew you'd be the guy to give a lot of the info.

One other question about the book almost being cancelled- Was it just the Batman title that was in danger, or were comic books in general in a bad place as the series began? And another question as I think of it- Did the entire comic book industry get a bump from the series? I'd imagine even Marvel was helped by Batman's popularity.

[Wee67]

Here's everything you need to know about the tv series:


DIAL B for BLOG - THE WORLD'S GREATEST COMIC BLOGAZINE (http://www.dialbforblog.com/archives/204/)

Wow, this is a really great read! This is one of my all-time favorite shows so I appreciate the insight.

[The Toyroom]

One other question about the book almost being cancelled- Was it just the Batman title that was in danger, or were comic books in general in a bad place as the series began? And another question as I think of it- Did the entire comic book industry get a bump from the series? I'd imagine even Marvel was helped by Batman's popularity.


From all accounts, it was the Batman titles, "Batman" and presumably "Detective Comics" that were on the chopping block, prior to the "New Look" experiment that preceeded the TV show by 2 years. If anything, the "New Look" saved Batman from cancellation and the advent of the TV show just gave it the extra boost to maintain that momentum.

DC Comics definitely saw a bump other than just the Batman titles....an excellent example is the "Justice League of America" title...Batman was featured VERY prominently on several covers in succession during the Batmania period and often dwarfed his fellow JLAers in size. Many of the covers had that "campy"element as well.

Marvel and other companies all cashed in on that Camp Craze during the Batmani period in different ways but DC was probably the most successful.

[cdhall]

Here's everything you need to know about the tv series:


DIAL B for BLOG - THE WORLD'S GREATEST COMIC BLOGAZINE (http://www.dialbforblog.com/archives/204/)

I'll have to read that later. I got to part 2 but have to get to work.

[generic]

-The Riddler was just a minor and forgettable villain in the comics. This series is responsible for turning him into one of the most popular villains in Batman's rogues gallery.
The Riddler debuted in "Detective Comics" #140 (Oct. '48) and made his 2nd appearance in Dec. '48. After that he enjoyed a long hiatus until his 1st Silver Age appearance in "Batman" #171 (May '65). So, yes, Frank Gorshin's stellar performance is responsible for really putting the Riddler on the map as one of Batman's top 4 foes.
I didn't know that! Wow, you really do learn a lot of stuff around here! :smiley1: By the way, don't forget that John Astin (Gomez from The Addam's Family TV Show) played The Riddler on the 1960s Batman TV show as well!



-After the show was canceled, the character's comic series took on a dark and deadly serious tone that was reminiscent of the original comics in the late 1930s as a reaction to the TV show's light touch.
The Neal Adams era after the show is my absolute favorite Batman era! THAT is what comes to mind when I think of Batman.


I know Batgirl was brought in to pick up ratings, but I was under the impression she was first intended as a spin off companion series. When the pilot wasnt picked up it was decided to drop her into the Batman series?
Yes, I've seen the Batgirl pilot. I'm glad that the show lasted long enough for Batgirl to appear in the 3rd season since the Batgirl TV show didn't pan out. You've gotta love that Batgirl! :wink_y:


DIAL B for BLOG - THE WORLD'S GREATEST COMIC BLOGAZINE (http://www.dialbforblog.com/archives/204/)

Awesome!

[thunderbolt]

Astin only played the Riddler once, as a fill in for Gorshin.

[The Toyroom]

^ Actually when Season 2 came around, Frank Gorshin was done with the role, period. One of the Riddler stories of Season 2 was re-written for Maurice Evans as The Puzzler, while Astin picked up the role for the other Riddler story. Gorshin was lured back for just one appearance in Season 3, and it wasn't even a two-parter.

[thunderbolt]

I read an article about that somewhere where Gorshin was ticked that he was replaced in the Astin episodes.

[kingdom warrior]

Also Hadn't The Joker not made an appearance in the comics for a few years prior to the series ? I thought I read that somewhere.....Wasn't It the series that brought him back to Popularity......

[thunderbolt]

When Julius Shwartz took over the editing on the Bat Books, THe Joker dissappeared around 64. When the show came on, he started getting appearances again in the comics.

[johnnystorm]

I think most of the major supervillains (Penguin, Joker, Catwoman, Riddler) had not been seen for awhile in the comics- the early 60s were mostly imaginary stories, aliens,and petty criminals. If they did show up it wasn't often...occasional guys like Calender Man & Kite-Man were used instead. And lots of odd costumes for Batman.

If I recall correctly, Two-Face didn't come back until the 1970s, same with Scarecrow.

[thunderbolt]

http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/worlds-finest/173-1.jpg
Two Face sorta showed up in this issue, Batman was transformed into the villain he feared the most. Harvey didn't whow up again till 1971. There is some evidence around that Dozier considered using Two Face on the show and was going to cast Clint Eastwood to play him.

[Meule]

There is some evidence around that Dozier considered using Two Face on the show and was going to cast Clint Eastwood to play him.

I've heard that before, but never seen any evidence. What kinda evidence are you talking about? Would've loved to have seen Two-Face in the show

[thunderbolt]

There's some documents on that Batman 66 site.

[Meule]

Really? Must've missed that then, I'll look it up

[UnderdogDJLSW]

The most recent book that carries this notion forth is TwoMorrow's Batcave Companion

I got that book when it came out. It is a great read!

[generic]

There is some evidence around that Dozier considered using Two Face on the show and was going to cast Clint Eastwood to play him.
I don't know if Clint Eastwood would have been interested in that role, but man that would have been cool! ...it probably would have sent Eastwood's carrier spiraling off in a different direction though.

[thunderbolt]

My 60's star to play Two Face is Shatner. Just imagine it for a sec.

[Meule]

My 60's star to play Two Face is Shatner. Just imagine it for a sec.

Shat and Adam West doing a dialogue together... man, that episode would last forever :wink_y: :smiley1:

[thunderbolt]

Could have been the second Bat-Movie!

[Meule]

And right after that the Batman franchise would've been dead and buried, no more chance for a revival EVER :smiley1:

[PNGwynne]

I seem to remember that the show's Two-Face would have been a disfigured news anchor, just as I think the 1950's 2nd Two-Face was in the comics.

Would have been cool to see him & the make-up approach, but perhaps was considered too gruesome?

Instead, we got False-Face, which was a really great foe performance & a great episode...

[Meule]

I seem to remember that the show's Two-Face would have been a disfigured news anchor, just as I think the 1950's @nd Two-Face was in the comics.

Would have been cool to see him & the make-up approach, but perhaps was considered too gruesome?

Instead, we got False-Face, which was a really great foe performance & a great episode...

Yes

Yes

and yes

[UnderdogDJLSW]

Shat and Adam West doing a dialogue together... man, that episode would last forever

ever see this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eR14SH5tby4&NR=1

I think Two Face could have been done without gruesome. I think the two-headed coin gimmick would have been great fun in the 60's show.

[thunderbolt]

Yeah, and the death traps for Batman and Robin would have played up the number two with two victims.

Wonder if Scarecrow was ever considered? Don Knotts would have been great.

[Meule]

ever see this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eR14SH5tby4&NR=1

I think Two Face could have been done without gruesome. I think the two-headed coin gimmick would have been great fun in the 60's show.

HA! Never seen that before. They talk normal here, but as Captain Kirk and Batman both... of them... suddenly talked... slower... pausing every two... or three... words, so... they would be... in the... picture longer.

Two-Face as we know him was too gruesome for the show, but they could've pulled it off with painting half of his face red as if it was burned and have just one big scar on his cheeck in stead of completely deforming that half. That might have worked

[PNGwynne]

Has Eastwood ever mentioned this Two-Face casting?

Did it ever get that far?

[Meule]

Has Eastwood ever mentioned this Two-Face casting?

Did it ever get that far?

Don't think so, Two-Face was deemed too scary and was replaced by False Face