Public Domain Superheroes

[The Bloody Head Fairy]

Here are just a few Public Domain superheroes for Castaway to consider.The Black Terror is hands down my favorite of the bunch. Who would you pick?


Public domain superheroes image by gamotis on Photobucket (http://media.photobucket.com/image/public%20domain%20superheroes/gamotis/goldenage2.jpg)
:terror::drool_y::terror:

[Orion]

Captain Battle looks pretty cool. And also like the Death Defying Devil.

[60'schild]

Black Terror, Blue Bolt, Capt. Battle and Death Defying Devil are all great to me! :yeah:

Hope both ZICA and Castaways are paying attention!! :wink_y:

[The Bloody Head Fairy]

Just a quick introduction.My name is Brian & I do alot of sculpting & I am also a painter/illustrator It`s not for sure because we are still talking but Cast Away is considering me as their packaging artist & possibly a sculptor.I`m really hoping we can get our heads together & really get these guys off to a flying start.I`m certainly stoked to do this.It`s like a dream project for me.There are some really decent public domain characters.These are some I thought of tonite & I would appreciate your feedback.
1) Vlad the Impaler
2) Famous circus freaks-The Elephant Man,Schlitzie the Pin Head,Jo Jo the Dog Faced Boy are some good examples.
:wavey:

[txteach]

Hey Fairy, welcome to the museum and good luck.

[SUP-Ronin]

Cool looking group, that Golden age look gets me every time. The only guy I don't care for is U.S. Jones.

[blastphemey]

its a very good idea but most of those heroes are kinda "eh" i like the idea very much though.
maybe with a better design of character and more a bit less generic. again i like the idea, those heroes are just rather generic

[thunderbolt]

Now that Dynamite is publishing them, or at least versions of them, are they really still public domain?

[wilbs518]

Black Terror and Blue Bolt are both great characters.

[SlipperyLilSuckers]

I like the idea of the circus freaks, particularly the Elephant Man.

[The Bloody Head Fairy]

I`m not 100 % sure but I believe the Green Lama is another that had a pretty good following.

[The Toyroom]

Now that Dynamite is publishing them, or at least versions of them, are they really still public domain?

Probably not the Dynamite/Alex Ross reinterpretations....but the original Golden Age looks may be still in public domain.

[boss]

Didn't castaway already make a Black Terror?

[The Toyroom]

^ I think they did when he was being published by AC Comics.

[Evel KMego]

I agree that these guys are very generic looking. You could just make up your own Golden Age looking heroes and have the same effect imo. It's not that they're bad, just kinda blah for me.

[The Bloody Head Fairy]

The Thunder agents would be cool but DC owns the rights.Doom Patrol is another.

[David Lee]

Now that Dynamite is publishing them, or at least versions of them, are they really still public domain?
Yea Joe, I think Mr. Ross would frown on producing figures, the question of legality I don't know... but why poke the bear if ya don't need to.

Having said that, Brian (who we are so excited to work with! this guy is awesome!) brings up a good point with Public Domain SH's. Like all great minds they think alike :wink:

And I have been scouring for some that I thought might be very cool. I think it could be done in a very cool way, as an homage to the foe runners of comics. I would love to capture the feel of these sometimes very simple, yet visually stunning characters. I tell you it's funny how we fan boys dissect modern super heroes in the realm of hyper realism... these golden age guys would blow some nerd minds! It's like they purposely try to make no sense! I have been hot on this since before Super Powers and was totally rejuvenated by all the fantastic scenes in the WATCHMEN Movie...

We'd really like to do something like this, but like anything "would like to" is often trumped by "how much money do we have?" and even worse "who would buy these?"... A neat idea for sure and one I won't let die without serious consideration.

-Dave

[thunderbolt]

^^^ Maybe this would be a good place to rehash my Heroes of the Serials idea. Pretty sure Commando Cody is either public domain or could be had for a song. Then there is Black Commando, Copperhead, the Green Archer, Chandu the Mystic. As for villains, Dr. Satan, Crimson Ghost and the Purple Monster are all out there. they'd be fun done in black and white, too.

[kingdom warrior]

As much as I love Golden age heroes......The problem lies with recognition. Some of these characters were third and fourth rate knockoffs that were made to cash in on the Superhero comic craze of the forties.

It takes a person like Alex Ross to do those characters to get the general public to even give it a look if that.

Watchmen worked because there is a HUGE fan base already built in who waited for years for the movie and Figures. Plus that series has not been out of print since it's been published.

Many GA heros are all but forgotten even by comic fans.

I'm sure in the collectors market with a limited run some GA figures may do Ok while others may not. It would be risky for a toy maker to make them or think he may get a big return on them.........doesn't mean they shouldn't try.

[David Lee]

I think it all boils down to cost. Most likely these would be a very limited production therefore that dictates these would cost more than a similar figure with a higher production run. Personally I won't spend more than $15 (unless it was something so cool I just couldn't live without it) for a new figure and when you add shipping onto that it just makes it even less palatable to me and you know these will NOT be in stores (let's face it, we're not talking about Superman or Spiderman here) so prepare to pay shipment fees. Now we're over $20 per figure and nothing has even been produced yet. Take into account the Phantom, Khan and others were around $25 or more to start with and now you're talking $30 per figure minimum. Too rich for my blood but I'm sure many others would be happy to spend that much. Of course maybe the costs of rights were figured into the Phantom and Khan which caused them to cost more than a public domain figure? While I think they would be cool and would buy them if affordable, I'm not optimistic they will be affordable enough to "collect 'em all".
Rich

Great point! The limited nature only works if it's something you really want, if you really want it, happy happy joy joyfor you, but most likely meh for others. As a toy manufacturer our need is to get production cheap enough to capture the happy happy joy joy crowd and maybe a few mehs too without sinking the ship. It's the niche market concept, play to those who like your stuff... We are working on that everyday. Like I have always said, nobody likes to play "what they should do next" more than me... I personally appreciate the ideas and the response, it's awesome to see what everyone is in to and see where our interest intersect. Who knows we may be making the "Hooded Horseman" next week...

-Dave

[LadyZod]

Public Domain means that legally the intellectual property (in this case, the Superheroes being published by Dynamite) belong to the public, that is, they belong to me, you and anyone else because they are "public property." That means we're free to do whatever we want with them, as is anyone else.

The toys belong to everyone.

That is why Erik Larsen can go ahead and use Dare-Devil, Samson and whoever he wants in the pages of Savage Dragon.

That's why Alex Ross made some changes to the characters. Those changes are protected by copyright, but not the original source.

In fact, since the original stories themselves are in the public domain, you can go ahead and publish reprints if you want to. I can too. Heck everyone can. There's just no money in it :smiley1:

But in terms of poking the bear. There's no bear to poke.

If a toy company like Cast A Way wanted to produce figures based on the Project Superpowers original golden age source characters, they could legally. But so could EMCE, ZICA, Mattel, Hasbro, CTVT, Jim Bob out of his basement... If everyone can produce their own product, where's the money in it?


However, food for thought....

Cast A Way has Captain Action.
Captain Action needs costumes.
Licensed costumes make for a very expensive set (cost of the character license for the costume, and cost of the Capt Action license.)
Public Domain golden age costumes cuts the cost in half....


Anna

[David Lee]

Public Domain means that legally the intellectual property (in this case, the Superheroes being published by Dynamite) belong to the public, that is, they belong to me, you and anyone else because they are "public property." That means we're free to do whatever we want with them, as is anyone else.

The toys belong to everyone.

That is why Erik Larsen can go ahead and use Dare-Devil, Samson and whoever he wants in the pages of Savage Dragon.

That's why Alex Ross made some changes to the characters. Those changes are protected by copyright, but not the original source.

In fact, since the original stories themselves are in the public domain, you can go ahead and publish reprints if you want to. I can too. Heck everyone can. There's just no money in it :smiley1:

But in terms of poking the bear. There's no bear to poke.

If a toy company like Cast A Way wanted to produce figures based on the Project Superpowers original golden age source characters, they could legally. But so could EMCE, ZICA, Mattel, Hasbro, CTVT, Jim Bob out of his basement... If everyone can produce their own product, where's the money in it?


However, food for thought....

Cast A Way has Captain Action.
Captain Action needs costumes.
Licensed costumes make for a very expensive set (cost of the character license for the costume, and cost of the Capt Action license.)
Public Domain golden age costumes cuts the cost in half....


Anna

Anna! You ma'am are full of wisdom! I like the way you think!

-Dave

[LadyZod]

Anna! You ma'am are full of wisdom! I like the way you think!

-Dave


I'm full of something alright.
:smiley1:

Seriously though.... Captain Action in his Dare-Devil outfit! Or even his Black Terror outfit!!

Free publicity with Alex Ross and Erik Larsen doing their thing... the character is in the public eye, and free to use... it's like they're taunting you!

Don't let them taunt you, Dave. It's rude.

Anna

[60'schild]

Surely, David, you didn't already see the words "public domain" and see possible opportunity there!!! SHAME!! :grin:

Having said that, when can we expect product? Sometime yesterday would be just fine... :wink_y:

[Neutron X]

I don't think many of these characters are in public domain Marvel,AC Comics, and DC have snagged them. Amazing Man(My all time favorite GA character) was used by DC in All Star Squadron. Lawyers trying to keep their jobs love doing the cease and desist orders for copyright infringement wether they have the rights or not it can cost you big bucks.

Dave Stevens of Rocketeer fame had a heck of time with Marvel over a 1 time throwaway character called Rocketeer. If I remeber correctly from our conversation is was a couple of years of wrangling.

[Captain]

Having been closely involved in the public domain issue with these heroes of late, I can tell you recent events have confirmed they are in fact public domain!...BUT!!! You have to do one of two things. First, you can produce product based on the EXACT actual Golden Age images, but then you cant do anything if somebody copies them....in short, knock offs are fair game.

Second, you can tweak them to make them different from the other incarnations. AC, DC, Marvel, and Dynamite have spent a ton of time (and to some extent money) arguing these points of late. The final decision was, as long as nobody copies whats been produced its fair game. This allows you to produce unique variations on the character that nobody else can copy, and gives you minimal protection. Problem is Doc Mego, Castaway, Zica,CTVT, and whomever else is in the game could (not saying they ever would) all decide to produce these characters at the same time and kill each others market...(kind of like whats going on in the comic biz) !!

For example, if you do Daredevil, you cant call him Daredevil because Marvel copyrighted the name long before this was an issue. You also couldnt use Red Devil like AC or Death Defying Devil like Dynamite. You can call him the amazing Burt, or Devil may care..or something, then its cool. You couldnt give the Black Terror a sword since Dynamite did that, or use the costume variations AC or Dynamite, or DC used...etc, etc. Of course, AC, Dynamite, or whomever can license out the rights to produce figures based on their interpretations of the character, but that still wouldnt protect you from somebody else producing the same character, less the Dynamite additions.

[60'schild]

Even with all of those caveats it sounds like there is still room to maneuver .... definite possibilities out there!

[AAAAA]

The other solution is Create your own charaters,When Paul Clack got the S&D letters from marvel and DC, I sent him some prototypes ,mockups and Art work,and told him do you own heros. I even sent him one of the Skeletons Dress in Aussie Marine , and told him you can do Zombies.
And He seek Out" Night of the living dead" Which he found out was Public Domain.
The Key is KEEP cost Down , some Have stated public won't pay for unknown Hero ,that Known one, I Beg to differ. when G.I.Joe took off Parents were Buying the 1.29 knock off figure and By passing the 3.49 joes.
If you offer a cheaper item of the same quality You will out sell the Pirmary item.

[thunderbolt]

^^^ Like kids are going to be happy with a Black Terror over Batman.

[jasonmego1277]

This definitely sounds interesting. I am curious if anything comes of these.

[spotter]

However, food for thought....

Cast A Way has Captain Action.
Captain Action needs costumes.
Licensed costumes make for a very expensive set (cost of the character license for the costume, and cost of the Capt Action license.)
Public Domain golden age costumes cuts the cost in half....


Anna

THIS IS THE KEY ! I got the "golden Age" version of Commander X from captain Eli and I love him but hve not bought any of the Jay's variants since I have most of those parts in other sets; I rotate all 4 of my phantom uniforms we don't need 'full Dolls" per se we need unform sets. - cheaper to ship and package

everyone is different - I actually prefer to dress up my guys and rotate now since I am out of space so I actually enjoy rotating my heroes.

However for those with more space or who prefer to have a doll to put out since it saves time you can sell bodies (which is already Done)

- all my classic Joes are dressed up - each uniform got a doll. ( most were assembled from spare parts back in the day pre internet and the dolls under the uniform are probably worth less than a modern reproduction since they are hammered.

[Tothiro]

^^^ Like kids are going to be happy with a Black Terror over Batman.

I'd have loved a Black Terror as a kid ... and I would now.

We assign a lot of preference bias on kids when it's really just our own projections. I don't think they care if the handbag is Gucci as much as we tend to demand they do. Granted this point is moot since in-the-aisle-toy-love isn't the Cast-A-Way business model... /shrug

[thunderbolt]

^^^ Right, but a kid today would have no clue who the Black Terror is. That's the thing about Castaway, its marketed to the geek population, not the kids. So, a line of the current Dynamite Superpowers comic would do ok with the same audience that bought the Phantom and Captain Action. I personally don't want uniforms and masks for CA, no interest in playing dress up.

[Tothiro]

Right, but a kid today would have no clue who the Black Terror is. That's the thing about Castaway, its marketed to the geek population, not the kids.

And I agree that a Golden Age or Serials line marketed to us could do well as well... without the legal licensing hassles of a specific iteration of a public domain character for something like a Com Cody.

My general point on Branding:

When I was a tot of He-man age, I pined for Warlock figures and cheapo knock-offs with the same generic body with twin reptile heads because they were so damned weird. Parents never picked them up (even at flea markets) because they were ... well, cheapo knock-offs. I never knew who they were, but they were interesting. Matter of fact, when actual He-Man cartoons started and he turned out to be something other than the simplistic proto-conan from the mini comics he came with I felt robbed. The story was better before they told it.

I loved Star Raiders, specifically Yog, since the first time I saw it on a peg... It didn't matter that it wasn't Star Wars (copyright) or that I didn't even have any other 8" figures to play with... I liked the goofy monster design and after my parents tried to tell me it sucked and I would hate it, they ended up giving in and buying exactly one (which I think my father sat on, announcing it broken, never to be seen again). Sure, it was a crap toy. I had no idea "who it was supposed to be," but I'll tell you I tried to come up with semi plausible reasons to take the VW wagon to the corner to pick up a loaf of bread for the better part of a year, on the off chance I might have an opportunity to search the thing again and find out where he got "lost" to since that was the last place I'd seen it (before it was ushered off to the garbage when I wasn't looking). Not only did I not know who it was, I couldn't even read yet.

I had a few Godzilla Gang hard vinyl figures too. I loved them. I can promise that if I ever had seen the ultraman characters on UHF on a Saturday afternoon (I didn't... I think I saw 1/2 an episode when I was a kid) I certainly didn't put together they were the same guys.

I suspect the kid today doesn't have to know who the Black Terror is as much as we claim they do. Equally I don't know who Sea Ghost is but I want one.

[SlipperyLilSuckers]

Gee I sure hope you have a Yog now Tothiro...how could they not buy you another at the time???

I have been hoping someone would make a series of costumes, have even been thinking about it myself actually.

[EMCE Hammer]

The fan base for Golden Age, public domain heroes is minute. Other than a handful of knowledgeable comic collectors, no one has a clue about the backstory of some obscure hero who was in a handful of issues in the '40s. What will make or break sales in my opinion is how neat the figures look. The figure could be named Captain Craptastic, and could have a completely fake origin and backstory, but as long as he's got a brightly-colored gaudy costume he'll sell just as many as a legit take on the Mustard Super Cosmic Llama from Really Seriously Fun Comics in '46-'47.

If a figure looks like it was put together from Doc Mego's parts box, I don't want it. You can only go so far on a solid color jumpsuit, gloves, and boots. I want to see factory suits like Leitner pumps out, multiple colors, attached briefs, etc. There are thousands of possibilities, but nobody makes them. I'll buy the Red Goat if he looks cool; I could give a ____ whether Will Eisner or some zit-faced skater dude came up with the idea. I'm with Tothiro - bring on Sea Ghost, because he looks cool.

[SUP-Ronin]

Perhaps a variety of suits and or accessories based on the golden age heros would allow customizers to come up with new characters on their own or make some of the figures shown without poking any bears. I don't know if that would be a cheaper alternative to actual figures and certainly not as fun, but since money is always an issue...:ugh_y:
I'm always on the look out for cool accessories to use so anything in scale opens the possibilities. :yes:

[Tothiro]

Gee I sure hope you have a Yog now Tothiro...how could they not buy you another at the time???

Taken care of ... :yes: In modern times he's been swapped to a red T2 to make him more awesome.

[AAAAA]

remember the playingmantis failed because the heros used were from the past,and have not been inthe media for years, except the phantom only being known by current flop of a movie, the heros were unknown to the child public.thats why i believe you should have a comic book in with figure.

[ctc]

Hmmmm....

I think when it comes to stuff like this it's best to release a whole nw figure, rather than just an outfit. When I was a kid I preferred that, unless the outfit was an accessory pack for another figure.... like winter gear or a diving suit. Then it was okay.

Making less well known characters is fine, but I think you've got to market them as NEW characters. You can't rely on nostalgia, but that doesn't mean they won't work. Especially the characters listed here, since they're all pretty generic superhero guys.

And when I was a kid I LOVED the no-name figures. Gave me a chance to make up my own stories for them. The 8" Tomlands are still a fave!

Don C.

[hobub]

I'd still suggest Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers, not the movie/tv versions but the classic comic strip versions.

[jasonmego1277]

I have been looking at some public Domain characters myself, but No Superheroes. I found a nice list of characters that have had copyright expirations , and I think will Make great figures. I'd to see castway capitalize on whatever they can because they are great at what they are doing !

[jackson5677]

CAST A WAY TOYS....THE BLACK TERROR
http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu49/jackson5677/BlTerfig.gif

[jackson5677]

CAST A WAY TOYS...FIGHTING YANK
http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu49/jackson5677/yanknewjpegsmall.jpg

[jackson5677]

Thanks DAVE and JASON........Can't wait to see what's next.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu49/jackson5677/castawaytoyscom.gif