Grant Morrison's Next Big Project - Let the Hate Begin!

[aquatroy]

Multiversity and All Star Captain Marvel (http://www.weeklycrisis.com/2009/04/multiversity-grant-morrison-watchmen-2.html) sound like they're right up my alley! I hope these projects get done and soon!

[BlackKnight]

Troy,

Ok here you Go.
If we as a Consumer Keep Buying into Morrison's new Found Direction of CRAP.. , we are only allowing him to continue making CRAP. Inwhich will Ultimately lead to a Blank Comicbook , that one has to pay 4.99 for, & then the Reader can make up EVERYTHING in His/Her collective Mind. IMO Morrison has lost the Ability to even Tell Stories anymore,.. And until he can come back down to an actual Story Telling comic , that doesn't Kill or "Remove" the Super Hero's I love to read,... I won't be buying or supporting any of his Further Nonsense. :silly:

[samurainoir]

Loved All Star Superman. I'm on board for All Star Shazam.

Even Morrison on an off day is ten times more interesting than most of the stuff floating around out there. He's always been a bit ahead of the curve in terms of pushing narrative bounderies. I think it's quite telling that it's taken two decades for Animal Man and Doom Patrol to find an audience in trade paperbacks.

He's always been a bit deliberately provocative and "Watchmen 2" sounds like more of the same. This is the same guy who offered up his incestual subtext to Namor/Invisible Woman/Torch just prior to taking the reigns on the Fantastic Four. Many fans of course took it a bit too literally.

[thunderbolt]

Mulitiversity is a seven issue series introducing one "Earth" in each issue. Earth 4 (Charlton) in one issue, Earth S(hazam) in another. There is the potential for more Captain Marvel stuff, its not concrete yet. And the Watchmen 2 tag is only in reference to the Charlton characters and how he is going to portray them in a Watchmen like reality. I personally can't wait to see what he does with the multiverse.

[The Bat]

He's always been a bit ahead of the curve in terms of pushing narrative bounderies.



You mean like storylines where they kill of the main Charcter of the Book, and replace him with somebody else? Yeah...that's original...that's never been done before.:smiley8:

[jds1911a1]

And the Watchmen 2 tag is only in reference to the Charlton characters and how he is going to portray them in a Watchmen like reality. I personally can't wait to see what he does with the multiverse.

Since wathcmen was only Alan Moore's riff on the Chartlon characters when DC wouldn't let him use them to begin with is this really anything noteworthy or original???

[Riffster]

I'm torn, i love the idea of Shazam mingling with the JSA/JLA crowd, I'll take any book with him in it.

[The Toyroom]

Like BK, I ain't buying any more of this crap from DC and Morrison....I wasn't impressed with the pseudo-version of the Multiverse after "52" and have no interest in exploring it, let alone having Morrison as my tour guide. If DC wanted the TRUE Multiverse back instead of this sham, then they should have had the balls to make that decision instead of *****-footing around with a Multiverse that's "like" the original Multiverse but it's not.

No don't get me wrong...I'm not totally Anti-Morrison. His work on stuff like Doom Patrol, Animal Man, Sea Guy, All-Star Superman, early issues of JLA is great stuff. But lately he's been thinking outside of the box TOO much and I feel that he's made too much of a mess in the DC Universe as of late. Sorta like the kid who pees in the sandbox and turns it into mud...do you still let the kid play in the sandbox? No.

Morrison is a great concept guy but his execution lately has sucked IMO. He's the guy behind the recent Uncle Sam and the Freedom Fighters. Great concepts that worked well when turned over to Palmiotti and Gray. But when he handles his own high-concepts like Final Crisis or Batman...not so good. The pacing on Final Crisis was absolutely horrible. What did this book accomplish actually? I'm still confused, and I know I'm not alone. Comic books should not be that difficult to understand what the f is going on.

And a side-note: if it was indeed "FINAL" Crisis, then why are we still seeing crap mini-series and specials solicited by DC with Final Crisis as part of the title? Talk about beating a dead horse.

Morrison on Shazam and company? No thanks. He was one of the architects behind Eclipso corrupting Mary Marvel and then DeSaad inhabiting Mary Marvel. I don't feel comfortable with him handling the Marvel Family. If DC wants them done right, just give them back to Jerry Ordway or don't even bother. (Thank Art for Billy Batson and the Magic of Shazam though! :wink_y: Aw Yeah Shazam!)

As far as his plans for Earth-4....Watchmen has already been done. No need to turn the Charlton characters to be more in line with the Watchmen versions. That's already been done once and was pretty successful. It was by a guy named Alan Moore. Maybe you've heard of it....it's called "Watchmen". Talk about beating a dead horse.

[aquatroy]

One man's crap is another man's fertilizer. For me, even when Morrison doesn't deliver there's always a cool idea or two that validate the time invested.

Really hope that All Star Captain Marvel comes to pass. Morrison's characterization of Billy Batson in Superman Beyond was spot on. I don't know if I want Quietly on that book, though. I've this dream of Mike Allred on a Captain Marvel book and think that he and Morrison would work well together.

[samurainoir]

You mean like storylines where they kill of the main Charcter of the Book, and replace him with somebody else? Yeah...that's original...that's never been done before.:smiley8:

Less his "mainstream" work on iconic character and more his wildly inventive stuff reserved for lower tier characters or creator owned characters.

I'm talking about the metafictional explorations in titles like Animal Man, The Filth, Seaguy and The Invisibles. (Yes, Superman has met his writers, but Morrison's taken it way beyond that).

Introducing into Doom Patrol, Sebastian O and Kid Eternity a kind of purposeful Surrealism and twisted Absurdism to see how it meshes with an already abstracted pop art medium like comic books.

Has anyone ever attempted anything as complex and demanding for the reader as Seven Soldiers? You can read those books over and over again in different sequences and still catch new nuances and both literal and thematic connections between the characters and their storylines.


Of course I haven't read Final Crisis yet, so I can't really comment on that.

[samurainoir]

One man's crap is another man's fertilizer. For me, even when Morrison doesn't deliver there's always a cool idea or two that validate the time invested.

Really hope that All Star Captain Marvel comes to pass. Morrison's characterization of Billy Batson in Superman Beyond was spot on. I don't know if I want Quietly on that book, though. I've this dream of Mike Allred on a Captain Marvel book and think that he and Morrison would work well together.

Allred would be absolutely perfect for Captain Marvel.

I actually kind of wonder why they can't let Jeff Smith's Shazam be the official "Earth S" (Kunkel's title follows Smith's right?).

[aquatroy]

Of course I haven't read Final Crisis yet, so I can't really comment on that.

If/when you get around to reading Final Crisis you need to read Superman Beyond as well. FC #7 will make no sense at all with having read Superman Beyond.

[aquatroy]

Allred would be absolutely perfect for Captain Marvel.

I actually kind of wonder why they can't let Jeff Smith's Shazam be the official "Earth S" (Kunkel's title follows Smith's right?).

Kunkel's version is loosely based on Smith's, but he doesn't take up where Smith left off. Honestly, I'm not sure if the Johnny DC title is the official Earth 5 version.

[samurainoir]

If/when you get around to reading Final Crisis you need to read Superman Beyond as well. FC #7 will make no sense at all with having read Superman Beyond.

I've heard that Superman Beyond is also loosely connected to All Star Superman?

[The Toyroom]

If/when you get around to reading Final Crisis you need to read Superman Beyond as well. FC #7 will make no sense at all with having read Superman Beyond.

Perfect example of how bad FC was....you have to read another book entirely to understand the final chapter in a 7-issue mini-series. What a freakin' mess.:muh:

[aquatroy]

I've heard that Superman Beyond is also loosely connected to All Star Superman?

In a sense. It seems that all of Morrison's Superman stories are loosely connected. DC 1,000,000 showed up in All Star. Stuff from the first JLA Classified arc shows up here and there. Having read All Star isn't necessary to understand Superman Beyond. However, Superman Beyond is necessary to understanding Final Crisis 7.

BTW, Superman Beyond is very good! It's one of the coolest things I read this year.

[aquatroy]

Perfect example of how bad FC was....you have to read another book entirely to understand the final chapter in a 7-issue mini-series. What a freakin' mess.:muh:

OK. We really don't need to beat that dead horse again. I hated bringing FC 7 up, but I wanted to make sure Samurainoir knew what he was getting into.

[BlackKnight]

OK. We really don't need to beat that dead horse again. I hated bringing FC 7 up, but I wanted to make sure Samurainoir knew what he was getting into.

How is that beating a Dead Horse ?
When that Crap was the last thing that Guy Wrote , This new Crap is obviously linked to some of his Ideas in that Story, you are trying to "Pitch" the Awesomeness of this new Idea ,.. when It's Idea Was Forged From BS, that Most people Didn't like to Begin with. I'd say the Topic is Highly related to this Topic At Hand. Plus in your Tittle Thread,.. you Wrote " Let the Hate Begin" . So,.. This topic is Perfect Justification on Why many people will not be buying this Nonsense. :wink:

:silly:

[thunderbolt]

Ya know, I was going to start this thread then thought better of it when I envisioned the BK/Dane/Toyroom/whoever else didn't get FC *****fest that it has turned into. If you don't like it or don't want to try something different, stick with what ya like. Which I am guessing is repetitive rehashes of the last 70 years of DC and or Marvel comics.

[BlackKnight]

If you don't like it or don't want to try something different, stick with what ya like.

You Know..., I find that Comment very strange comming From you. :smiley1:

Also,.. When one starts a thread, & In the Tittle it says " Let the Hate Begin" you seriously open yourself for further comments of Debate reguarding an alegid "Awesomeness" of an Upcomming Book. I was under the impression We were Debating in this thread,.. I had no Idea Only One Point of View Was needed or Required,.. Otherwise I would Have never have commented. I mean,.. Who am I to suggest what is a Waste of Money,.. I am sure Everyone can figure it out,.. then ***** Later,.. & Say,.. " BK Told Me so" . :wink:

:silly:

[thunderbolt]

I didn't start the thread, it was Troy. I stated that I didn't start the thread for the reasons I stated. As for trying other comics I have, Gl black night or red night or whatever the current color is was not very interesting to me. BTW, learn how to spell

t i t l e, not tittle

[BlackKnight]

I didn't start the thread, it was Troy. I stated that I didn't start the thread for the reasons I stated. As for trying other comics I have, Gl black night or red night or whatever the current color is was not very interesting to me. BTW, learn how to spell

t i t l e, not tittle


I NEVER Said you DID start the THREAD.
BTW... Just because someone doesn't agree with you, it doesn't mean you Have to always go 4th grade & get ****y. :sarky:

Everyone has an opinion,.. thats Life.
You like it,.. you buy it.

[thunderbolt]

ahh, why bother its not worth it, I'm done. Morrison sucks and you are right, of course.

[The Bat]

Morrison sucks and you are right, of course.


Ah...finally something we can agree upon!:grin:

[aquatroy]

I'd say the Topic is Highly related to this Topic At Hand. Plus in your Tittle Thread,.. you Wrote " Let the Hate Begin" . So,.. This topic is Perfect Justification on Why many people will not be buying this Nonsense. :wink:

:silly:

You know what, your right. I did write, "Let the hate begin", and you brought it. Well done.

:juggleyes_y:

[The Toyroom]

Ya know, I was going to start this thread then thought better of it when I envisioned the BK/Dane/Toyroom/whoever else didn't get FC *****fest that it has turned into. If you don't like it or don't want to try something different, stick with what ya like. Which I am guessing is repetitive rehashes of the last 70 years of DC and or Marvel comics.


There was nothing "to get"....A 7-issue mini-series should be pretty concise and to the point IMO. Not all over the place like Final Crisis was. Did you read the same book I read? Evidently not.

I'm not saying Morrison didn't have some good ideas in the book. I liked the new Japanese superhero culture he introduced. I liked the concept of the Alpha Lanterns investigating the murder of Orion. I liked the idea of Darkseid being the "big bad" behind the story as he really didn't do a whole helluva lot in the original Crisis on Infinite Earths*.

(*Speaking of which, I'll say it again... The original COIE was a 12-issue mini-series and a cast of thousands. Yes, it had some implausibilities in the plot as it unravelled but it still reads straightforward without hints and inuenndos and susposition. Plus Perez was the ONLY penciller on the book throughout the run, without the delays that we saw in FC. FC fell short of COIE in many many ways. Even Infinite Crisis with it's problems and the Superboy-Prime wall punch was more enojyable than FC)

But I digress....Morrison's FC sort of read like one of those sampler books they put out from time to time, promoting new series and whatnot. It wasn't very cohesive and wasn't a great linear read. Either as single issues from month to, ahem, month :sarky: or as one read altogether.

It was like DC editorial let Morrison loose (he IS a great concept guy) but didn't reign him in before the scope got too big and off the boards and didn't make sense. To reiterate...when you have to say to a potential reader "Make sure you read Superman Beyond otherwise you won't understand the end of the story" that's f'ed up. If he needed the 2 extra issues, fine....make it a 9-issue mini-series or 10 or 12, whatever he needs to tell the story right and not halfassed. I don't mind paying the $2.99, $3.99 or whatever a pop for extra issues if I'm going to get a good story out of it. But I don't want to pay the same for less issues and have a lackluster story..even though in the long run I'm saving a few bucks because they went with 7 when it should have been 9 or 10.

And like I said, I'm NOT a total Morrison hater. I am a total Winick hater. Won't buy anything the man writes. That's just me. But with Morrison I've been disappoiinted lately with FC and Batman R.I.P. For example, I loved the beginning of the Black Glove storyline with the Club of Heroes...EXCELLENT! I was even down for RIP....the Batman of Zur-En-Arrh...again EXCELLENT! I loved the concept and the nod to the old stories. But it ended up spiralling downward and I didn't care for the ending. Not that Bruce was removed for awhile....that's part of it. But that it was connected to FC eventually and it didn't gel like it should have. Again, you set everything up in Batman's own title only to have to read the "Real end" somewhere else. Not cool.

I like the idea of Bruce ending up somewhere else and eventually having to work his way back to the present...like I said Morrison is a great concept guy. But the end results sometimes get muddled and don't turn out as good as the proposal on paper.

[The Bat]

Arguing Writers & Artist is completely subjective...but that's what Comic Fans do right?:wink:

To me, it's like comparing Picaso to Monet...two completely different styles. Personally...I like Claude Monet. But hey...other People like Cubism. Who's right?

Nobody!!:smiley1:

[EMCE Hammer]

Originally Posted by thunderbolt: If you don't like it or don't want to try something different, stick with what ya like.


You Know..., I find that Comment very strange comming From you. :smiley1:

I thought the same thing! Tbolt, I can't think of a more critical poster. I'm sure Hector would see my Tbolt and raise me a t1kirk, but it seems to me like you pee on more comic and cartoon-related threads than anyone.

Toyroom summed up my feelings on Morrison pretty well. If I had to make it short, I'd say I don't hate him, I hate him *lately.* You and Troy are a vocal minority who love the guy, which is cool. But you don't have to pigeon hole us guys who disagree by saying all we like is rehashes. We just want a well-executed story based on a good concept.

[The Toyroom]

If I had to make it short, I'd say I don't hate him, I hate him *lately.* You and Troy are a vocal minority who love the guy, which is cool. But you don't have to pigeon hole us guys who disagree by saying all we like is rehashes. We just want a well-executed story based on a good concept.

:yeah::yeah::yeah:

[BlackKnight]

The character of Shazam! Will not have a good story again... Until... }


Drum Role Please......











SHAZAM! REBIRTH

Written by Johns, & Drawn By Schiver ..

Come on,.. you know it. :wink_y:

:smiley1:

[aquatroy]

EVS? Ick, no. Ivan Reis, though. Now your talking. That is if we want Cap in the Earth-0 DCU proper. I'm coming to the point of view that the Earth-0 Cap just isn't salvageable. That few writers can't get past the super-billy template, and that perhaps the traditional Captain Marvel is just to much like Superman to exist on Earth-0. However, if you make Earth-5 a kind of Fawcett homage with Cap as it's Superman, as Morrison alluded to in Superman Beyond. Then DC can have it's cake and eat it too.
Then, every few years you can have old school Superman\Captain Marvel team ups that could be as cool as the old JLA/JSA meetings that the teams had before the original Crisis.