Dr. Who Regeneration Question

[The Toyroom]

Excuse my ignorance if this is common Who knowledge but...

Has it ever been specified that the 1st Doctor on TV (William Hartnell) was in fact the very 1st Doctor or was he already a "regeneration"? And does a Time Lord have 12 generations or 12 regenerations? I'm just wondering if the current doctor (10) is closer to 12 than we might think...

[Mikey]

William Hartnell was the original Doctor ... meaning he was born and grew up, married, had kids-- and of course, a grand daughter.
He even stated in The Five Doctors he was the original.

Patrick Troughton, Doctor no.2 was the first regeneration.
That means, the Fifth Doctor is the fourth regeneration and so on.

Current Doctor, David Tennant (the 10th Doctor) is the ninth regeneration.

The Doctor can regenerate 12 times, so after Tennant, there still will be 3 more Doctors.

Total will be 13 Doctors by the time he's finally spent.

[ctc]

>Total will be 13 Doctors by the time he's finally spent.

IF they decide to stick with that... they're already running out of regenerations.

And isn't the last one supposed to be evil?

Don C.

[danadoll]

I could be wrong (and somebody please correct me, if I am)...But I seem to recall that the Valeyard was supposed to exist before the Doctor's last regeneration.

Dana

Edit: I had to go and look (It started to bug me...Not remembering)...Quoted from the official BBC Doctor Who page "The Valeyard admits his identity as a distillation of the dark side of the Doctor's nature, somewhere between his twelfth and thirteenth incarnations, out to take control over his remaining lives."

[Mikey]

I keep thinking, if RTD is still around whenever the last regenerations take place, there's a really good chance the Valeyard idea will be forever left with the Trial of a Time Lord series.
He'll probably think it's just not something that's that valid to Doctor Who history where he must include it......... and if he didn't, I really wouldn't be that upset.

[The Toyroom]

Thanks Mike for making quick sense of it for me! Much appreciated!

[ctc]

Hmmmm....

HERE'S a weird idea: what if the Doctor's evil incarnation is actually an early incarnation of the Master?

Don C.

[Mikey]

Hmmm,

But if the Doctor and Master both went to the academy together --- which leads me to believe neither had regenerated for the first time yet, I don't think that idea would fly.

[ctc]

>But if the Doctor and Master both went to the academy together --- which leads me to believe neither had regenerated for the first time yet, I don't think that idea would fly.

If they're that same guy they would HAVE to have attended the academy together....

I wonder 'cos the Master always seems to exist as a singular entity. His first appearance seems to be his last incarnation, and we never see him meet any of his older ones; like the Doctor has. (Hmmmm.... would the Master team up with himself, or try to destroy himself? This is gettin' weird...)

Don C.

[samurainoir]

Was it ever established that Susan was in fact the Doctor's biological Granddaugher?

Any links on the "Evil" Doctor where I can read more about him? It sounds interesting.

[Mikey]

Was it ever established that Susan was in fact the Doctor's biological Granddaugher?

It was a well known fact that Susan was the Doctors real grandaughter --- but in the 80's, some really nutso Who fans with nothing better to do decided the Doctor should be celibate his entire life --- therefore making Susan just a young friend in their eyes.

[ctc]

Hmmmm....

If you get the chance, read "How to Read Donald Duck." THere's a good section about why nobody in cartoons have kids or parents (just lots of "nephews") and I think it applies to the whole Susan thing.

As for the evil Doctor; it's from "Trial of a Time Lord." Which is a WEIRD series. It's a full season, and it's really disjointed. I get the impression there were a LOT of last minute changes during that one....

Don C.

[phil]

The Doctor and The Master are DEFINETLY two different people.

The whole Trial of a Time Lord is a disjointed mess. It's been a while since I've seen it but the Valeyard being a future version of the Doctor is only one
of it's problems. If the Valeyard is the Doctor then why does he want the Doctor executed?

[danadoll]

The Doctor and The Master are DEFINETLY two different people.

The whole Trial of a Time Lord is a disjointed mess. It's been a while since I've seen it but the Valeyard being a future version of the Doctor is only one
of it's problems. If the Valeyard is the Doctor then why does he want the Doctor executed?

Did nobody read what I had posted?...Sigh.

Dana

[johnmiic]

Dana,

I recall hearing that explanation a long time ago. It seems to violate some basic rules of cause and effect in time travel theory tho.

To have a future self come back and try to take over your former selves and fail wouldn't that knowledge of events motivate you to prevent the future self from becoming evil in the first place so the future evil self should not exist to come back and try to hijack your past lives?

It's all very confusing and probably time travel would be more complicated than we can imagine.