Doctor Who and BEM's - what qualifies?

[johnmiic]

I never understood the reasoning that the Daleks were BEM's. Sydney Newman hated them until they proved popular but they are very sophisticated looking pieces of machinery. I think of them as the medieval Da Vinci tank realized by a technologically advanced culture. Even the newest models were designed to retain the classic Dalek sillouette. They're more detailed, their armor is thicker but they are Daleks through and through.

If anything is going to be classified as a BEM I would have thought Ice Warriors, Koquillion, Yeti, would classify.

[palitoy]

I personally wouldn't classify the Daleks as BEMs either, although things like the Mechanoids seemed to be blatant attempts to recapture the Dalek thunder. The Daleks really changed the series, historical tales got left behind with the second Doctor.

The Koquilion is a BEM in every sense of the word, except the story pulls a Scooby Doo and makes him an intentional one.

[Mikey]

When I think of Daleks, the first thing I think of is Nazi's.

Unlike the Cyberman, who want to conform you to their ways ........ Daleks just see you as not them so you should be dead.

They have no redeeming qualities.

[johnmiic]

As an example:

The Slitheen, Zygons, Krillitanes, Tractators, The Ani-Matter monster, The Ood, Wyrrin even Morbius = Bug Eyed Monsters.

Sycorax, Autons, Cybermen, Robot Mummy's, Empty Child, not BEM's.

[Mikey]

In short,

What is the definition of a BEM --- in their terms ?

[johnmiic]

This is a definition I pulled from Wkipedia and I think it was plagurized from another onlline encyclopedia because the wording is the same but I lost the other link:

"Bug-eyed monster is an early convention of the science fiction genre. Extraterrestrials in science fiction of the 1930s were often described (or pictured on covers of pulp magazines) as grotesque creatures with huge, oversized or compound eyes and a lust for women, blood and general destruction. The term is now often abbreviated to BEM."

The Wiki entry specifically mentions the Daleks but I think whoever created the Wiki entry must be a fan to include Daleks as an example. I dislike using Wiki but again I lost the other link.

[palitoy]

I always think of BEM's as those creatures who show up in bad movies and look like they don't have an ounce of intelligence. You're left wondering "How did it fly the spaceship? It can't even speak!"

Characters like the Zygons have intelligence and while they are villains, i just don't think they're monsters per say.

[YANOULI]

At the time Sydney Newman made the BEM comment the Daleks hadn't been designed.

What he didn't want in the show was men in rubber suits like the monsters that appeared in the 50's B-movies.

[samurainoir]

I always think of BEM's as those creatures who show up in bad movies and look like they don't have an ounce of intelligence. You're left wondering "How did it fly the spaceship? It can't even speak!"

Characters like the Zygons have intelligence and while they are villains, i just don't think they're monsters per say.

BEM's driven by Id. Primal Base desires given horrific form... which is why they are always going after the beatiful damsel or trying to eat things.

I think you are absolutely correct in your definition of the traditional trappings of the BEM. Particularly if we also take into account the fact that one of the big cliches of the BEM genre is that there is often a Tales from the Crypt/Twilight Zone style "twist" which shows the initial impression due to their physical appearance is not necessarily reflective of the intelligence/malevolence.

[palitoy]

The closest thing I can think of would be in "love and monsters" when they had a monster in a flashback, the sole purpose of being for the creature was to be a scary monster.

[johnmiic]

When I think BEM, outside of Doctor Who, I think of the Metaluna Mutant from This Island Earth. The Zygons are hightly intelligent and I think one of the best creatures from the show. Just fantastic. Still their appearance does seem designed to shock you-if you've never seen one before.

[ctc]

Hmmmm....

I think a lot of folks use the term "BEM" to refer to any highly improbable, possibly cheesy alien monster. Daleks sort of count; they DO have one sorta bugged out eye. (Eyestalk, really....) And when you think about it logically they ARE pretty silly. (Look out! A slow moving salt shaker with a gun!!!)

Of course, the silliness is what makes 'em unique... and interesting.

Don C.