Queston about Web Planet and Visitation

[number 6]

Are either of these either of these episodes, Web Planet or Visitation, pretty good?

I've never seen a story with the first Doctor although I get the impression those stories are kind of more for kids.

I haven't seen episodes with the 5th Doctor since I was a teenage. Don't remember much about them other than I didn't particularly care for him. But I have the Five Doctors and I like that alright.

[palitoy]

Visitation is not bad as I recall, Aliens causing mischeif in the past is the main story with the highpoint (Lowpoint?) being the death of the sonic screwdriver.
Plus you get Arthur from On the Buses as a highwayman.


I like the Web Planet personally but it's very early, it's childrens program roots are showing. Still a lot of fun.

[Mikey]

I like the Web Planet ........ but it is an acquired taste for the average Who person.

Basically, (without giving away details or plot) --- it almost feels like your watching an opera without music....

But, like I said, it is an acquired taste...

The Visitation:
A decent story.
I'd say, one of the better Peter Davison stories.
But, like almost all Davison stories, it does move a bit slow.

Both are good ones :)

[number 6]

Probably should clarify my reason for asking.

Rusputin's opened were Tower Records used to be here. They have both of these in the used section. They're less than retail but still enough to make me balk considering I haven't seen either one.

So I guess what I'm asking is are they worth buying at a slightly reduced price?

[Mikey]

Give me your top 5 favourite and top-5 WORST Doctor Who stories and i'll tell you if I think you'd like these :)

m

[johnmiic]

The Web Planet will definately give you the feeling this is a childrens show. That is not to say that's a bad thing or that it is a bad episode. I have not watched it in some years but it is very good. I find that the acting and staging is very geared towards a kid audience. It seems at times that the actors playing the alien race move in exaggerated ways and the way the aliens speak are somewhat simple. Web Planet tho is very bold in that it utilises very elaborite costumes and make-up to protray an insect race. I still recommend it. I think it's quite good.

The Visitation is also a pretty decent story. I don't think I've ever seen it start to finish tho.

[ctc]

Hmmmm....

The Web Planet is a little slow (they probably could have chopped an episode from it) and it's REAL ambitious for an early Dr Who budget. (IE: The suits are pretty cheap.) BUT it DOES have giant ants, with mind controlling wishbones and little laser-shootin' grubs! Now THAT'S entertainment! If you don't mind the limited budget (and if you like the old show you probably don't....) and you like weird monsters then this is a classic.

....giant ants...hee heee.....!

Don C.

[johnmiic]

Doctor Who in it's early years as a childrens show didn't talk down to kids so it's easy to forget who the show was made for. They respected their audience and stimulated their imagination without being heavy-handed about the moral of the story. Most people don't really plan for quality children's entertainment. The stuff they make here in the states are mostly toy commercials and they try to make up for it by inserting some over-obvious story point, ( Filmation became notorious for the dumbing down of children's entertainment ).

DW's budget was often less than a drama, ( something I recall they really complained about in the 70's when they were trying to tell more sophisticated stories), but man the great things they did with so little money in some of those early years! They took an imaginative concept and ran with it.

They came up with this distinctive look and technique for the insect races in Web Planet which makes you wonder why the race didn't come back a few more times. They could've got more mileage out of those great costumes. I have to give props because it was geared towards the young audience but it really hooked the adults too.

[ctc]

>Doctor Who in it's early years as a childrens show didn't talk down to kids so it's easy to forget who the show was made for.

I know the original idea was to produce an educational kids show; but I think that went out the window with the first Dalek. Still, I suspect episodes like "The Aztecs" were holdovers from that idea. (Probably written well before the show went into production.)

I think it slipped into the realm of "general audience" pretty quick. (Mostly at the hands of the actual production crew and not the execs.) A lot of the earliest episodes don't look like they were particularly written FOR kids, but were written so that kids could still watch. Which I'd attribute more to Standards and Practices (or whatever they were called back then) than an intentional plan. From the sniglets I've heard over the years it seems like they adopted the "nobody's gonna watch anyway; so let's do something cool!" attitude.

>DW's budget was often less than a drama, but man the great things they did with so little money in some of those early years!

Yeah. For a modern audience i takes a little getting used to; since we've been inundated with big budget, tv CGI chocolatyness for a while now; but once you get a handle on it, there's a lot of weird goodness. (Look out! It's a giant salt shaker with a gun!!!!)

>They came up with this distinctive look and technique for the insect races in Web Planet which makes you wonder why the race didn't come back a few more times.

Very true. Like I said; it's an ambitious episode: a whole planet populated with four distinct races of giant bugs, on a minimal budget.

>They could've got more mileage out of those great costumes.

The Zarbi ruled; but I could see them being a bit self-concious about the costumes. Inarticulate fiberglass bodies with some dude in tights under it... but still; GIANT ANTS!!! WOOOO!!!!! Giant ants rule! With MIND CONTROLLING WISH BONES!!!!

>I have to give props because it was geared towards the young audience but it really hooked the adults too.

Something I found weird... the DVDs feature exerpts from different talk shows and such wherein the cast appeared, and during the Tom Baker years most of the callers seem to be pre-teen girls. Not the audience you'd expect for the Tom Baker horror-movie era stuff.

Don C.

[johnmiic]

Yeah, it just goes to show you can't tie Doctor Who down. It's a slippery eel that escapes most labels and attempts to stick it in one genre. Baker appealed to young girls eh? I think his persona of being the class-cut-up, being very anti-authoritarian probably made him very appealing to young women. In one recent interview Tom lamented the fact that ever since he gave up the role he has lost the wonderful rapport he had with children. He said, " Don't talk to strangers!", didn't apply to him when he was the Doctor.

Another interesting thing was when the Yeti were due to return Pat Troughton went on air, in character, and spoke directly to the children. Basically he said that the Yeti were going to be scarier. So tell mommy and daddy because we don't want you to be too afraid of them. They were still quite conscious that the show was in the childrens programming arena.

Then contrast that with the Pertwee story with the Autons where they had the killer doll with fangs that came to life and killed people. They figured no warning was necessary yet the nation was in an uproar after it aired.

[Mikey]

Terror of the Autons ------ The doll scene was creepy as hell--- even watching it today.
__________________________________________

Doll shot about 20 seconds in .........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKXeiYbZQO8

m

[palitoy]

>I think it slipped into the realm of "general audience" pretty quick. (Mostly at the hands of the actual production crew and not the execs.) A lot of the earliest episodes don't look like they were particularly written FOR kids, but were written so that kids could still watch. Which I'd attribute more to Standards and Practices (or whatever they were called back then) than an intentional plan. From the sniglets I've heard over the years it seems like they adopted the "nobody's gonna watch anyway; so let's do something cool!" attitude.


Ok I agree with that, originally Sydney Newman had mentioned that "Bug Eyed Monsters" were the lowest form of science fiction. It seemed after the Daleks arrived, the show tried to replicate that formula more than a few times. A lot of fun creativity resulted.


Yeah, it just goes to show you can't tie Doctor Who down. It's a slippery eel that escapes most labels and attempts to stick it in one genre.

I guess because of it's timeslot, you could view it either as children's entertainment or science fiction. Heck, many folks dismiss all Science Fiction as childish. The Mary Whitehouse issues in the 70's suggested the show was very cognitive of it's child audience.

[danadoll]

Ok I agree with that, originally Sydney Newman had mentioned that "Bug Eyed Monsters" were the lowest form of science fiction. It seemed after the Daleks arrived, the show tried to replicate that formula more than a few times. A lot of fun creativity resulted.

Oh Noooooo....Don't say that, you'll shatter a certain somebody's illusions that DW is an adult science fiction series.


I guess because of it's timeslot, you could view it either as children's entertainment or science fiction. Heck, many folks dismiss all Science Fiction as childish. The Mary Whitehouse issues in the 70's suggested the show was very cognitive of it's child audience.

Oh now you've done it...It's on.

Dana ;)

[johnmiic]

That's an interesting point you make Brian. I'm starting a new thread on it.

[number 6]

Give me your top 5 favourite and top-5 WORST Doctor Who stories and i'll tell you if I think you'd like these :)

m

This probably won't be very helpfull but here's some of my favorites (in no particular order):

Seeds of Doom
Deadly Assassin
Pyramids of Mars
Brain of Morbius
Talons of the Weng-Chiang

As you can see, they're all early Tom Baker.

But that's kind of why I'm curious about these: Tom Baker and a little bit of Davidson is pretty much all I've been exposed to. I would kinda like to branch out a bit. But I don't plunk down money on something I'm not going to watch more than once. Speaking of....

O.K., while I can't think of any episodes of Who that I actually hate, these are a couple that I didn't really care for that stick out in my mind.

Seeds of Death ~ my first and only Troughton episode. I actually like Troughton and wouldn't mind watching more of his. But what I didn't like about it was it didn't seem like the Doctor was really in it that much. Seems like most of it was these two scientist guys talking about the transmat to death! Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. :juggleyes_y: And the ice warriors, while they look cool, the hissing talk gets real anoying real fast.

Leisure Hive ~ I said I didn't hate any Who episode but this comes close. Just a long, boring mess.

While I haven't watched a lot of Davidson and it's been a while, from what I remember I didn't care for him or the stories much. I can't recall any episodes in particular though.

I haven't seen any of the 6th and 7th Doctors and frankly, from what I've seen in the documentaries, they don't seem like they would appeal to me.

BTW when I said the Web Planet struck me as perhaps being more for kids, I didn't mean it was a bad thing. It's just sometimes with kid's stuff you have to have a sentimental attachment to it to enjoy it as an adult.

[Mikey]

Based on your likes......

I'd say to get The Visitation

But pass on Web Planet....
Besides the shoddy SFX... you'll probably find the whole story itself rather boring.
If you didn't like Seeds of Doom, you'd really HATE Web Planet :)

[YANOULI]

you could always get the web planet for me, i've never seen it. :wink_y:

[Mikey]

Here you go guys ......

Take a gander before you buy :)

http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=catastrophe26&p=r&page=7

m

[palitoy]

BTW when I said the Web Planet struck me as perhaps being more for kids, I didn't mean it was a bad thing. It's just sometimes with kid's stuff you have to have a sentimental attachment to it to enjoy it as an adult.

A-freaking men, it's not an insult and shouldn't be taken as such.

As for the seventh Doctor, he had some great moments, try remembrance of the Daleks or Curse of Fenric some time, those you might like.

[Mikey]

Yep, I agree

I'm not a big fan of Sly, but I really like Remembrance a lot.

Fenric was a little hard for me to get.

[ctc]

>I really like Remembrance a lot.

Daleks, evil teachers right out of a Pink Floyd video, and a cosmic powered baseball bat. What's NOT to like?

>Fenric was a little hard for me to get.

I think this one really hilights the McCoy era. When you watch it, you can SEE what they wanted to do with the story; but they didn't quite pull it off. If you can, read the novelization AFTER seeing it. It fills in some of the blanks.

McCoy is my fave Doctor. I think he got the short shrift though; since a lot of the episodes look like they really wanted to do something new with the Doc, but weren't allowed to. I see a lot of the McCoy era in the new shows; even theough the relation between McCoy and Ace was more paternal, there was a dynamic that they'd never done before. Ace was more of an equal (at least in strength of will) than any of the others. And the Doc pulled some new tricks, such as using her for bait in Fenric. They also seemed to get more into the characters' personal lives; things like the Doc looking for some R&R, and Ace's problems with her mother.

Don C.