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Anyone Reading Checkmate?

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  • samurainoir
    Eloquent Member
    • Dec 26, 2006
    • 18758

    Anyone Reading Checkmate?

    I'm a big fan of Greg Rucka's Queen and Country and was looking forward to seeing him bring that kind of sensability to the DCU. I haven't picked up the trade yet, but is anyone reading this series?
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  • brineb
    Persistent Member
    • Aug 26, 2006
    • 1232

    #2
    I have been reading it, but I'm not sure if I like it. I usually give a book a year before I ditch it. To me there are too many characters that look the same, that's more an art problem than a writing problem. The writing has been pretty good, nice plot twists and plenty of back-stabbing, but if I can't figure out which character is doing it, I get lost.
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    • Earth 2 Chris
      Verbose Member
      • Mar 7, 2004
      • 32498

      #3
      Not a big fan of Rucka on the DCU. Technically, he is a fine writer. But he's one of the many novelists/Hollywood types who like to write stories and just throw established DCU characters in any way he can to make them fit. Then you have characters suddenly grossly out of character as they had been established for up to 65 years.

      So in other words, I haven't read it.

      Chris
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      • samurainoir
        Eloquent Member
        • Dec 26, 2006
        • 18758

        #4
        I think that Rucka's work on Gotham Central was some of the top stuff DC has published in many years. Rucka had a good handle on Batman, and his Question has certainly been the best since Denny O'Neil's legendary run on the character. His Huntress as well tops my list of her scribes in the post-Crisis continuity. I would also put his run on Wonder Woman as a highlight of the Post-Perez era, slightly better than Phil Jiminez's run (which got way too convoluted).

        His Superman is probably the weakest of his recent stuff, although I did enjoy the frequent Myx appearances.
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        • Earth 2 Chris
          Verbose Member
          • Mar 7, 2004
          • 32498

          #5
          Rucka spearheaded the whole "Batman IS insane" notion. Bruce Wayne: Murderer/Fugtitive was a mess, and served no purpose other than to portray Batman as a complete psycho. The fact that DC openly changed Batman's portrayl back to a somewhat kinder, saner version shows how out of whack this was.

          His Gotham Central work may be good, but he took an established character in Renee Montoya and totally changed her (even her sexual orientation). Before I get flamed, I have nothing against a lesbian lead character. But Montoya was clearly shown to be straight before. That's my problem with Rucka, and to a lesser extent Meltzer. They feel the need to change characters to suit their needs, rather than just creating new characters.

          I will say I liked his Huntress (even though he essentially rewrote her character as well), and his take on the Question was actually pretty close to O'Neil' established take. Until he killed him and replaced him with HIS Montoya.

          I don't mean to usurp this thread and make it an anti-Rucka tirade. I do respect the man's writing chops. I just prefer him on his own material. I thought I should explain myself better from the post above.

          Chris
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          • samurainoir
            Eloquent Member
            • Dec 26, 2006
            • 18758

            #6
            Originally posted by Earth 2 Chris
            Then you have characters suddenly grossly out of character as they had been established for up to 65 years.
            I'm not sure it's just the Hollywood writers/novelists. None of the major 65-year old icons has remained "in character" for that duration. Certainly Bob Kane's original "The Batman" became out of step with the goofy fifties incarnation Kane's stable of writer/artists were turning. The Rogers/Englehart long eared "Detective" Batman probably seemed grossly out of character to those who grew up with Batman a decade prior. The Adam West incarnation is certainly not Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale's Long Halloween Batman. Tim Burton's Batman does not behave in the same way as Batman from the nineties animated series. Heck even Frank Miller's All Star Batman isn't the same one he was writing two decades ago in the pages of The Dark Knight and Year 1.

            For some people, Batman is your Dad as a Boy Scout leader. For others, he's a grim vigilante that has no problem breaking someone's arm if it prevents them from harming an innocent.
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            • Earth 2 Chris
              Verbose Member
              • Mar 7, 2004
              • 32498

              #7
              I'm not going to beat a dead horse on this, but I think Rucka went somewhere with Batman that he shouldn't have gone, one that violated every previous version of the character. Yes, through the years Batman has changed and evolved. But he was rarely portrayed (in his own titles anyway) as psychotic. Miller's DKSA and All-Star Batman are even worse. Making Batman nuts is like making Superman a womanizer. It just doesn't ring true to the core of the character.

              I'll quit my grumbling now.

              Chris
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              • samurainoir
                Eloquent Member
                • Dec 26, 2006
                • 18758

                #8
                Originally posted by Earth 2 Chris
                Rucka spearheaded the whole "Batman IS insane" notion. Bruce Wayne: Murderer/Fugtitive was a mess, and served no purpose other than to portray Batman as a complete psycho. The fact that DC openly changed Batman's portrayl back to a somewhat kinder, saner version shows how out of whack this was.

                His Gotham Central work may be good, but he took an established character in Renee Montoya and totally changed her (even her sexual orientation). Before I get flamed, I have nothing against a lesbian lead character. But Montoya was clearly shown to be straight before. That's my problem with Rucka, and to a lesser extent Meltzer. They feel the need to change characters to suit their needs, rather than just creating new characters.

                I will say I liked his Huntress (even though he essentially rewrote her character as well), and his take on the Question was actually pretty close to O'Neil' established take. Until he killed him and replaced him with HIS Montoya.

                I don't mean to usurp this thread and make it an anti-Rucka tirade. I do respect the man's writing chops. I just prefer him on his own material. I thought I should explain myself better from the post above.

                Chris
                I think the "Batman IS Insane" (or at least a sociopath) territory has generally been well mined even before Rucka by the likes of Miller, Grant Morrison, Alan Grant and others. But keep in mind that Rucka feels he tries to be close in approach to that of Denny O'Neil when it comes to Batman and Question, and both have gone on record that they follow the writing of a noted psychiatrist by the name of Thomas Szasz. I'm over-simplifying but basically Szasz believes there is no such thing as "insanity"... just behavior so abherent that the rest of society need to label it as such in order to make it "safe" for our own perceptions and sensibilities by defining it as "other".

                Basically, I believe that the point of Rucka's run on Batman was to distance ourselves from the character of Bruce/Batman, and take a look at how others would view his BEHAVIOUR as "insane". In the end of course it was revealed that Bruce has his reasons for doing what he does and his motivations became clearer, but the arc was about creating an aura of mystery and psychological suspense that has been missing from the character for quite some time. I actually think it's the logical way to go, particularly once others have taken Batman too far into Grim and Gritty territory. If those that are closest to him don't start questioning his psychological well being and motivations, who else will?

                In a long drawn out arc with multiple writers handling different pieces, I don't think Batman Murderer/Fugative really worked. But I feel the same way about most writing-by-committee crossovers. With the exception of No Man's Land, which worked mostly by handing off different mini-arcs of the larger stories to individual writers with varying degrees of success. Rucka's Montoya/Two Face material I thought was pretty strong.


                As for Montoya as a Lesbian, having many friends in the Lesbian community, including an ex-girlfriend whom I remain friends with, it's not always a simple matter of whether or not she was shown as straight before she suddently became a lesbian out of the blue. Human sexuality is much more complicated than that.

                We've seen Montoya slowly coming out of the closet as a lesbian over the course of Batman and Gotham Central. While there are some lesbians who know from day one that they like women and are brave enough to express themselves as such from a young age, given our heterocentric society, this is often not the case. Given her ethnic/relegious background and the way it has been established that her family feels about homosexuality, it is not suprising that a character... particularly a young woman, might try to supress her own natural desires and date/sleep with men because that is what is seen as "normal" within the culture and community she grew up in. Often there are Lesbians who are in denial about themselves and their sexual orientation during the early stages of their sexualy awakening and exploration. It's not easy to subject yourself to societal prejudices when it's so much easier to deny who you are sexually and hide them from your loved ones, friends, neighbours and co-workers. Doing instead what you believe that others expect of you, rather than following your own desires.

                Just because she used to have sex with men doesn't mean that she's barred from the Lesbian club-house!
                Last edited by samurainoir; Jun 19, '07, 2:44 PM.
                My store in the MEGO MALL!

                BUY THE CAPTAIN CANUCK ACTION FIGURE HERE!

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                • Earth 2 Chris
                  Verbose Member
                  • Mar 7, 2004
                  • 32498

                  #9
                  I'm editing my last post, because it sounded snotty, and I didn't mean it to be.

                  I'm a simple guy. I like my characters to act consistently. They can change, grow, evolve, etc. But I feel that many of Rucka's DCU characters don't read like they are the same character I've read for years, or the same ones that appear in concurrent titles. He's certainly not the only one "guilty" of this. It's a common occurance in modern comics. I just don't like it.

                  As for Batman, he's not crazy. In the DCU, heck it's perfectly normal to run around in tights and hit people. And if other characters think he's a bit off, that's okay. But he shouldn't be portrayed as actually insane, or unbalanced, or whatever. Sure he has issues, but they shouldn't make him an unlikeable jerk. That's just my opinion.

                  And I get your point about Montoya, but I feel it came too far from left field. He should have created a new character to take in this direction.

                  And as Forest Gump once said "That's all I've got to say about that."

                  Chris
                  Last edited by Earth 2 Chris; Jun 19, '07, 2:53 PM.
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