Another DC REBOOT!! Getting old!!! (SPOILERS!!!)

[Cosmicman]

I am sitting here reading the Final Crisis books and all the books that tie into them. It just finally hit me what DC is going to do.

Think about it. They recreated the multi-universe again and they are bumping off their top dogs like Martian Manhunter and now Lois Lane.

I think they are leading us to another reboot!!

Think about it. Back to one Earth with everything starting fresh. It worked back then when stuff was getting chaotic. If DC does this, I will be completely done with them again. That trick worked once.

You know I am right.

Thoughts??

[BlackKnight]

Big thanks for the Spoiler warning for the death of lois lane.

[madmarva]

I don't think they are going to reboot everything like Byrne did with Superman in 1986, but I do believe there will be some streamlining of some things or maybe just not mentioning things.

An example, in the late 1980s or early 1990s Green Lantern miniseries Emerald Dawn, Hal was arrested and went to jail for drunk driving. Johns is retelling Hal's origin adding on layers of info, but he's not mentioning the drunk driving thing. He's writing that it didn't happen or confirming that it did. He just left it out.

Personally, I didn't think the drunk driving thing fit the character when that story was printed, but DC was trying to Marvel-ize the character, make him more interesting.

But some GL fans might see it as pivotal to the character.

The way Johns is handling it, the drunk driving issue can be a part of Hal's history or not and he's left the door open for another writer to use it some day if he sees fit.

At the Wizard Con on Friday, Geoff Johns said he and new Superman writer Robinson would make Superman's continuity more clear.

He said his view of continuity is that all of it should be game so that new stories can spring from it or nuances can be added.

I like that idea and it was pretty much the way continuity was played before Crisis on Infinite Earths. Writers played off old stories when they wanted to or fleshed out some things as they went along. As time went by, some things became cannon and some things were conveniently forgotten.

I think it's limiting to strap the writers down over ticky little bits of business that appeared in a comic 5, 10, 15 years ago or longer. As long as the writers are being true to the spirit of the characters, I'm happy.

Of course defining the spirit of the character can be a little difficult because every fan has certain aspects of the character that are more important to them than others.

Really, all I want is good stories. If the powers that be want to ignore some things or mix things up a bit to tell better stories, I don't mind.

While I agree with many that the way Marvel dissolved the marriage of Peter Parker and Mary Jane was a cheesy shortcut, I have to say I have not enjoyed the Spider-Man comics as much as have recently since the early to mid 1980s when Roger Stern and Peter David were writing a lot of his tales. This, of course, was before the marriage.

[thunderbolt]

Martian Manhunter was a top dog??

[The Toyroom]

When did Lois bit the dust? Final Crisis #2? Even though it looks bad, that panel in question isn't conclusive....

[aquatroy]

If DC does this, I will be completely done with them again.
Thoughts??

__HA!__

[Bo8a_Fett]

Will we see a Spiderman clone ?

[Werewolf]

Lois Lane is dead!? When did that happen?

[Cosmicman]

Lois Lane is dead!? When did that happen?

Final Crisis #2

[thunderbolt]

I'm really amazed by people that gripe and moan about books yet keep buying them. If you don't like it quit buying the books.

[ctc]

>I'm really amazed by people that gripe and moan about books yet keep buying them.

Me too; and I've been watching it since the early 90's when I worked at a comic shop. I've never been able to explain it; but it's a really common problem.

But it's particularly sad nowadays, since there are more comics available to a N. American reader since I was a kid. You've got:

-mainstream Marvel, DC and sometimes Image
-a bunch of other companies (who mostly publish Marvel, DC and sometimes Image swipes... but there are a lot of 'em.)
-reprints of old Marvel, DC and others. Including tons of newspaper comic compilations. (Although I've discovered one of comics' dark secrets from reading the Marvel Essentials books; but that's another story....)
-tons of Japanese comics; in an amazing variety of genres. Who'da thunk there'd be so many girls comics, sports comics, horror comics, sci-fi, historical.... AND they've been reprinting Japanese comics from the past, which increases the variety. (There's NOTHING like a 70's Japanese horror comic. For better or worse.)
-Compilations of European comics, which I remember when I was a kid but hadn't seen for a while. PLUS, thanks to the internet I can order stuff FROM EUROPE! Another magical land that keeps the classics in print. (Tragicly, the only European language I can sort of read; besides English, is French. And there a re a lot of cool Italian comics out there.)
-online comics. Lots of people who'd normally NEVER be published are doing it themselves online.

So if Batman really sucks now, just let go. There's so many other good books you COULD be reading, instead of getting ulcers over the old faves.

And for the record.... yeah; you're probably 100% correct about the reboot. But it's not surprising, since DC's been completely rearranging their setting every year or so for a while now. It's part of what makes their comics unreadable.

Don C.

[Bo8a_Fett]

The reason some of us continue to buy is in case the title we're reading improves...a vain hope in some cases....example...I gave up on the latest run of Booster Gold after a few episodes but due to someones recommendation picked it back up and its a good solid read now. Saying you shouldn't continue to pick something up if you dont like it means that some times you miss out...if for example you didn't like Will Smith (as mentioned in another thread) and because of that you missed out on a great movie (in this case Ali) you'd kick yourself (yeah ok you could rent it or in comics case buy back issues...but the whole concept of reading something or watching something at the time it is fresh and just out is appealing).
There are other reasons for buying comics you don't enjoy reading...for example Clandestine....not too intriqued by the story...but I LOVE Alan Davis's art....so I buy it. The return of Barry Allen and the death of Martian Manhunter are good enough reasons to pick the Final Crisis title up.
I think that I am quite a well read person in books comics and have a wide collection of both and films and music too (and toys), and yes some of my collections have bits I don't like/listen to/watch/play with often ...but the point is, I have at some point and can appreciate the better ones due to reading/watching/listening etc. the poorer ones.
As I've said before you must eat the hamburger to appreciate the steak.

[Cosmicman]

Don't get me wrong. I love collecting DC books. I just feel they cop out and take the easy way out when stuff gets chaotic. I like what they did to Hawkman. They made him a believable and usable character again. They somehow combined Carter and Kator into one supreme being. When he went back to Thanagar the Thanagarians said it was still him. When he hangs out with the JSA they still think he is Carter. Not sure what it does to the moral standard part of his personality, but it is better then having four or five Hawkman/Hawkwomen flying around the DC Universe.
If they cleaned stuff up and kept it that way, it would be fine.

I think it was an undeserving end to the Golden Age/Earth Two Superman how he was literally murdered and humiliated. That was handled wrong but I am sure once DC "reboots" again it will be considered a never happening situation.

Please no more reboots!! Just fix the universe. I am crossing my fingers they do the right thing. Ugh!

[ctc]

>I just feel they cop out and take the easy way out when stuff gets chaotic.

That seems to be the popular opinion amongst those who detest the redos. Fair enough. I suspect the REAL problem is what I was eluding to earlier: that a revamp starts everything over, and negates the biggest STRENGTH of an established character, the years of history you could draw from. The reader WANTS to get into the story, but has trouble 'cos they're aware (on some level) that it'll all get negated if things get too heavy.

'Course, part of the problem is being an older reader. You've been around the block enough times that you can see this sort of thing coming. Part of the problem is the publishers too. They've been hyping up these big "events" for a few years. Funny thing; superhero books ALWAYS had big events like this. It was kinda part of the superhero "bigger than life" thing. But they weren't hypes up. They happened and the reader could make up their own mind about them.

>The reason some of us continue to buy is in case the title we're reading improves

It's a dilemma of the commons then. You keep buying it hoping it'll improve; but because people keep buying it they'll keep publishing it as is.

>Saying you shouldn't continue to pick something up if you dont like it means that some times you miss out.

True; but you also miss out on the headaches, lost cash, and frustration.

And do you REALLY miss out?:

>you could rent it or in comics case buy back issues

Yup! Which is why I mentioned the reprints. I can now get reading copies of old series that I'd never be able to afford otherwise. Sure, it lacks that freshness, but ultimately it's about reading the book.

>There are other reasons for buying comics you don't enjoy reading

But not all of 'em are healthy.... The obsessive "I might miss something IMPORTANT!!!!" thing is one of 'em. And even if you buy a book just for the art (which I don't recommend) you're still getting something out of it. I've seen folks buying books they outright HATE, just 'cos they've been doing so for so long.

Don C.

[thunderbolt]

^^^ Yep, the only way DC or Marvel or Wil Smith will know you have lost interest/faith in the product is thru the bottom line. The only say you have is with your wallet. I quit the XMen cold turkey when first Claremont left, and then the holofoil crappola faze started. I came back for the Grant Morrison run and then left it again after that.

I love classic Dc and Marvel stuff, but won't keep trudging along with JLA or Spider-Man in the hope that it will improve.