what happend to marvel?

[Bionic Joe]

what happend to marvel comics? face it marvel comics have been bad for awhile now most of there stuff is unreadable, but they are showing signs of a come back cap america is really good, miss marvel is a good read, and nova issue one shows promise and ironman is so so but the rest is crap, so what happend? back in the 70s just about any marvel you picked up was a good read but know it;s mostly garbage:yuk:

[Megospidey]

Writing. It's always writing. I can deal with bad art; I cannot handle poor writing.

I'm with ya though - Captain America is the only current Marvel stuff I'll read. I won't even touch Spiderman...and that's saying something for me :wink_y:

[Bionic Joe]

the clone saga killed spidy for me and havenot been able to get into him ever since and from what i heard from others i missed alot of bad story arcs, i tried reading the book with the intro gwen's daughter but when i found out how that story was going i said never agian for a long time spidey was a favriot of mine i hate what they did with him. and talk about bad art they have the wrost artist ever in scottie young:yuk: i would never buy a book buy him

[thunderbolt]

Last thing I picked up from Marvel was Agents of ATLAS, and am awaiting the sequel. All the Civil War crap does nothing for me.

[Comic Book Geek]

Spider-man's not good (although the last issue was interesting JMS has had a few good moments in his run but mostly bad), but I don't understand all the hate for Marvel. There are really good Marvel books and have been for the last several years. Ultimates and Ultimates 2 which just wrapped up were great. Ultimate Spider-man and Ultimate FF have been really good throughout their runs Daredevil went through the best run ever IMO within the last 5 years. Astonishing X-men which is near it's end is fantastic. I love the Illuminati miniseries. I'm enjoying new Avengers and really really like Mighty Avengers. I just read a couple preludes to World War Hulk and it was good. Captain America is great even though he's apparently dead (for now) and say what you want, but Civil War was a decent read and has had a real (and interesting) effect on the Marvel U. So what have people been reading that's sucked so bad? I'm know they have some badly written books, but so does every comic company.

[The Toyroom]

Although there are occasional sparks of genius at the former House of Ideas, Marvel has been mismanaged for quite some time. Jim Shooter started some of the damage and it was just added upon by Bill Jemas, Joe Quesada and others. DC isn't always top-notch either but I think for the most part there's been more of an editorial flow from one regime to the next, right or wrong.
A long time ago my Marvel/DC buying was split pretty evenly in the 70s and 80s...nowadays it's like 90% DC, 10% Marvel.

[palitoy]

Marvel lost me in the 80's somewhere. I felt at the time that they didn't give any of their characters a classic status, always tinkering with them to sell more books. That and I never cared for Mutants much.
I still love the classic books but I don't know what's going on with any Marvel characters any more.

[aquatroy]

I tend to like the Marvel titles that don't depend so much on the MU Continuity. Daredevil & Iron Fist are good examples of this. There's not much mentioned of Civil War or the ramifications of it.

[Comic Book Geek]

Marvel lost me in the 80's somewhere. I felt at the time that they didn't give any of their characters a classic status, always tinkering with them to sell more books. That and I never cared for Mutants much.
I still love the classic books but I don't know what's going on with any Marvel characters any more.

I wont argue that Marvel tinkers, but wouldn't you agree that DC does this from a different angle? DC tends to kill off characters and replace them. Flash dies, then there's a new Flash. Same for Green Lantern, Blue Beetle, Super Girl, Robin etc..

Spider-man may have changed over time, but he's still Peter parker, Bruce banner's still the Hulk etc... it's mainly a different style.

Both companies have to mix things up to keep interest alive. things have to change and develope. I understand someone may like one company more than the other by nature based on style prefference. Many of the reasons given against Marvel from people that prefer DC, are the same reasons I have against DC.

[Bionic Joe]

capt america is hands down there best book, but then keep in mind it's caps only title unlike the 50+ x-titles and the 10+ spiderman titles, to me marvel started going down hill when they started cloning there top selling books, look at the punisher one top selling book back in the late 80s so marvel did another punisher title and then another plus a half dozen minis same thing with the x-men one title after another, and how many spiderman titles a month do we need? what made marvel really great back in the 70s was the top books was only a single title so every effort was made to make that title the best it could be, now they just slap an x-title on it and bang top 10 seller, amd plrase don't get me started on the every couple of years time to due an all new first issue, since the mid 90s how many cap america relaunchs has there been? not counting the whole heroes reborn crap try 3 and two for ironman what gives? cheap sales gimmick instead of just gotting a good writter and a decent artist give a book both and the buyers will come:yes:

[kingdom warrior]

I think many people forget that the Seventies for a good while comics Sucked Back then also. Marvels X-men for the first part of the Decade was a Reprint until the revival.Daredevil was Bi monthly until Frank Miller came on board and totally changed the book...The sales were not that Great for them.Yes there were Gems here and there That many of us fondly love.Kirby's second run on Captain America is appreciated now but back then it was in the dumps.

Same with Marvel in the 80's again they had there moments but the 80's was really the Decade of the Independents DC's makeover and Marvels X-men continuing to dominate and Todd Mcfarlane's run on Spiderman...

The 90's was marvels worst decade when instead of doing there own thing they tried to be Image....

as for Marvel now I don't like everything they've done and I honestly like the Ultimate line of books it's a different take on the same tired characters....It was the Ultimate version of Cap that really got me excited again about what was really cool about him.

My Biggest gripe if I have one about comics is the Pricing...way overpriced for fancy looking comics and I'm sorry but I miss the smell of old comics...these new comics are just to way slick for me.

[Comic Book Geek]

OK Spockfan74, I hear you, but are you saying DC doesn't do the same thing? How many Bat titles? Superman?

Here's when DC lost me. It was Countdown to Infinite Crisis. During that time DC launched 6 miniseries. I was reading 3 or 4 of them. 3 issues into the Omac mini I was told that the story would be continued... in WonderWoman (???) from Wonder Woman it went to Superman and then back to Omac. I refused to buy the other titles and when I got to issue 4 of OMAC I was lost. A mini-series jumped title??? Are you kidding me?

This was not the first time DC had done this to me. I was sick of it by then and pretty much quit buying anything DC that had any chance of tieing in with other titles... which means 98% of all DC titles are closed to me. DC does this worse than anyone. It seems like every year batman has an earthquake, gang war, no man's land, viral outbreak, or is falsly accused of murder and to follow the story I'm supposed to buy 7 different titles for 5 months for a mediocre story.

Is that not a money making scheme over the substance of the story? Is that not a cheep sales gimmick that you accuse marvel of?

When I read Daredevil that's all I need to read. 5 issues into the story it doesn't just stop like a DC comic would when the "big event" comes. last several years each title blends into it (or ignores it in some cases which I'm OK with because it means it's not interupting a good story) Contrary to the opinion of people currently not reading Marvel, Marvel is telling good stories.

Both Marvel and DC are trying to make money. That's OK. Both create scenarios that will intice us to read more of their comics. If you prefer DC that's cool, but when you give an example of why you don't like Marvel make sure it's not something that DC is guilty of too.

[Bionic Joe]

true dc does way too many bat titles and should drop him down to two titles, but can you ever really have to many superman titles :smiley1: ok superman should also be cut back some more but all in all dc books are better and has been for awhile, while marvel has been slick and nothing else but they are starting to get better, maybe i should have made this tread what's wrong with comics today:wink_y: in closing was there ever a song wish i could swing like spiderman no but there was a song wish i could fly like superman:yes: tells you something:smiley1:

[jemboy2004]

I like DC better for sure but will say that DC is very guilty of re-launching there titles. They just did it again. They re-launched a bunch of titles, Most of the main ones with a few exceptions.

I too hate it when a DC book says see TEEN TITANS for this and WONDER WOMAN for this and JUSTICE LEAGUE for that. I love their characters better than MARVEL but see they are just as guilty of cheap gimmicks to make money.

[boynightwing]

I'm not really a Marvel fan but I thought the Civil War was amazing stuff. It kept me coming back for more. Though once it ended I didnt pick up the follow up thing where Tony Stark assigns heroes to parts of the world.

As far as DC goes. I've always been a DC person but I will never buy another book with the word Crisis in it. To me it seems like they've lost the ability to do anything new so they keep destroying and remaking their universe. :(

[Bionic Joe]

from what i hear the top brass at dc are all huge silver age fans and intend to undo the post crisis dcu hence the everything old is new agian

[samurainoir]

Marvel of the last half decade or so is miles better than the Marvel of 10 years ago.

There were very few Marvel titles of the nineties worth revisiting for their stories IMHO. All the top writers of that period were mostly at DC, with the possible exceptions of certain runs by Warren Ellis, Peter David, Kurt Busiek and perhaps Mark Waid.

I believe one of the first things Joe Q did when he arrived at Marvel was to bring over writing talent from DC and recruit from the indy scene.

Highlights of the Joe Q years for me...
Garth Ennis on Punisher.
Grant Morrison on New X-Men and Marvel Boy.
Mark Millar's Ultimates.
Bendis on Ultimate Spiderman and Daredevil.
Christopher Priest on Black Panther.
Brian Vaughn's Runaways.
Paul Jenkins' Senty and Inhumans.

[Comic Book Geek]

Highlights of the Joe Q years for me...
Garth Ennis on Punisher.
Grant Morrison on New X-Men and Marvel Boy.
Mark Millar's Ultimates.
Bendis on Ultimate Spiderman and Daredevil.
Christopher Priest on Black Panther.
Brian Vaughn's Runaways.
Paul Jenkins' Senty and Inhumans.


Good list. I'd also add Joss Wheddon on Astonishing X-men, and Warren Ellis had a short run on Ultimate FF.

The "big" events are great when they're a good story, but because they make money regaurdless the two companies will settle for the best story on hand annually.

DC's last event that I really enjoyed was Identity Crisis which was a self contained story. It bled over to other titles, but wasn't too intrusive, and all I needed to buy was one title more than I already was. I was really digging DC at that point but then the countdown thing happened. It started great for me then stabbed me in the back.

I think that's what Marvel has done well the last couple of events. The house of M and Civil War only required that one extra title to know what was going on.

Fact is both companies give us crap. I equate it to this. You will put up with your own kid's crap easier than someone else's kid. your kid acts up, and you keep them. Some other kid acts up and you don't want that kid in your house. Marvel is my kid.

[samurainoir]

off the top of my head, the past few years of DC's highlights...

Geoff Johns on Teen Titans and JSA.
Grant Morrison's We3, 7-Soldiers and All Star Superman
BK Vaughn's Ex Machina and Y The Last Man
Bill Willingham's Fables and Robin
Rucka and Brubaker's Gotham Central
52

[The Sentry]

Good list. I'd also add Joss Wheddon on Astonishing X-men, and Warren Ellis had a short run on Ultimate FF.

The "big" events are great when they're a good story, but because they make money regaurdless the two companies will settle for the best story on hand annually.

DC's last event that I really enjoyed was Identity Crisis which was a self contained story. It bled over to other titles, but wasn't too intrusive, and all I needed to buy was one title more than I already was. I was really digging DC at that point but then the countdown thing happened. It started great for me then stabbed me in the back.

I think that's what Marvel has done well the last couple of events. The house of M and Civil War only required that one extra title to know what was going on.

Fact is both companies give us crap. I equate it to this. You will put up with your own kid's crap easier than someone else's kid. your kid acts up, and you keep them. Some other kid acts up and you don't want that kid in your house. Marvel is my kid.

Werd!

But Marvel is doing some damned good stuff these days I must say! I haven't read comics like this since I was a kid "World War Hulk" I think is something that needed to happen for years it's been a long time comin that Hulk puts the heroes in their places.

Civil War I think made Spiderman cool to me again, he hasn't been this cool since Toddy Mac was at the helm, yes I agree how many Spider-titles do we really need?

"No more Mutans" was what the Scarlet Witch said before she slipped off into nothingness and that's what happened the mutant population dropped to almost nothing so Marvel did hear our cries. In my opoinion, comic companies in the 90's killed comics with the whole "collecting" thing (die-cuts, platium editions, limited editions, and such with terrible stories and half naked chicks practically doing nothing, don't get me wrong, I like naked women just as much as the next guy but Jesus get a penthouse mag and leave it be!) I love the stories! That lacked badly then now Marvel and DC are trying to clean up the mess done by the past editors and writers so all of that will take time! I have been totally enertained by what the comic world is giving me! Hope everyone else will too!